I broke off my own tip

[LotusFool]

I had my Linn Basik LV X tone arm supported in a vice (so I could loosen the set-screw to release the tone-arm cable) when disaster happened. The tone-arm fell out of the vice,and the stylist broke off! I was told my Sumiko Blue Point Special EVO III was about 12 months away from needing replacing, so I have ordered a Ortofon 2 M Bronze which was recommended to me and reviews well.

My question is, should I just toss out the Sumiko which now has no stylist, or is there still some value in it?

Thanks,
Gary

 

[tnsilver]

should I just toss out the Sumiko which now has no stylist, or is there still some value in it?

Don't toss it. First off, it's "stylus" not "stylist", which is a totally different thing - so unless you want your hair done or a total make over, it's "stylus". Second, it doesn't need "replacing", it needs a retip. A "retip" is when the worn out diamond tip is swapped for a new one. I suggest you privately contact member @needlestein and consult him. He is now a re-tipper and can help save your Sumiko.

 

[4-2-7]

Sumiko Blue Point Special EVO III was about 12 months away from needing replacing, so I have ordered a Ortofon 2 M Bronze which was recommended to me and reviews well.

My question is, should I just toss out the Sumiko which now has no stylist, or is there still some value in it?

I don't think you'll like the Bronzes as much as the EVO III. I really can't believe you did what you did as I hold my breath when ever handling this cartridge. Anyway whats done is done and it's a $300+ lesson.

The broken EVO III is worth at least $75 because that's what you get for a trade in on a new one that cost around $540. A good retip if you send it in will cost around $325 so this is a cheaper rout.

 

[illinoisteve]

Sorry to hear about your bad break. Most often a stylus can be replaced, or has been suggested, fixed.

 

[bang4buck]

Autocorrect. I'm sure that was just your phone's autocorrect

Do you mean literally only the diamond tip itself is gone? Or did part of the cantilever shear off? That's much more likely. Not that it makes much of a difference in practical terms. Only a few vendors can actually replace the diamond (and if they can, it may not even be cheaper). Most will want to install a complete cantilever assembly because that's what they buy from their supplier, a cantilever with the diamond already bonded to it in the correct orientation.

 

[sqlsavior]

Autocorrect. I'm sure that was just your phone's autocorrect

Or autoerr. After countless changes from phono to phone, and headshell to headspace (WTF is a headspace?), I turned mine off in Safari.

 

[damacman]

AKer needlestein can repair it.

 

[musichal]

Oh, I thought this was a zipper thread.

 

[dfunghi]

Or autoerr. After countless changes from phono to phone, and headshell to headspace (WTF is a headspace?), I turned mine off in Safari.

Headspace is that place where your significant other invades to add clutter.......

 

[ripblade]

I don't think you'll like the Bronzes as much as the EVO III.

+1.

 

[LotusFool]

Thank you everyone!

It was the cantilever that broke off. I had a hunch repair was possible, because the guy I ordered my Ortofon 2M Bronze from said I could "trade in" my broken Sumiko and get around $100 off on a new Sumiko (from him). But he suggested the 2M bronze with it's " Nude Fine Line diamond" will reveal more detail in the music, so I thought I'd give it a try. But 2 of you have posted that the Sumiko should sound better.
So I've decided to have the Sumiko re-tipped by needlestein, and keep the cart I like the best, and sell the other one.

While I have you here let me ask this. I have a pretty good ear and I will be able to tell very quickly if the Ortofon sounds better than the Sumiko or not, but is there a "burn-in" period with a cartridge? Should I wait for a number of hours of play before I make my decision?

Thanks again
Gary

 

[4-2-7]

A good retip if you send it in will cost around $325 so this is a cheaper rout.

So I've decided to have the Sumiko re-tipped by needlestein

Personally I would have sent it to soundsmith, you also don't know if the cartridge needs more work. It fell to the floor and it's a nude body with micro wires that could have also been damaged.

Generally when you break in a cartridge it's the new suspension that needs to loosens up, at this point your not getting that replaced where your sending it.

 

[Wildcat]

While I have you here let me ask this. I have a pretty good ear and I will be able to tell very quickly if the Ortofon sounds better than the Sumiko or not, but is there a "burn-in" period with a cartridge? Should I wait for a number of hours of play before I make my decision?

The suspension on a cartridge indeed does "break in," so there will be a number of hours (50? anyone?) needed before it will sound as it should.

 

[jcolletteiii]

Thank you everyone!

So I've decided to have the Sumiko re-tipped by needlestein, and keep the cart I like the best, and sell the other one.

Excellent decision.

 

[Chrisxo55441]

but is there a "burn-in" period with a cartridge?

The 2M Bronze is an excellent cartridge i like mine better then my 2M Black. Mine took about 20 hours to break in, at first i thought well this really sounds like shit but right in mid song it went from crap to like the band just walked into the room one of my few truly WOW moments. The Black sounded great right from the start and never changed but from then on i never really judge a cart until its got over 20 hours on it. but im sure they all vary so more time could be needed as well.

 

[ehoove]

This is getting old, It now appears that a member cannot post about his prefered vendor without a thread in the open forums once again turning into an advertisement/solicitation. The O/P is not a subscriber who has access to BarterTown, and once again business is being conducted in the open forums. The post by 4-2-7 did not attack anyone, but showed concern for the well being of the OP. I myself would have mentioned Andy as my preference since I have knowledge of his work as well as Peter at SS. Offering suggestions with no experience of a vendor is not helpful, but recommendations of known vendors is. Recommendations are made all the time in AK and no one gets attacked for doing so, and it will not start here!
Thread edited and monitored,
Jim

 

[4-2-7]

Here is my Sumiko Blackbird with a new Ruby cantilever, fine line stylus and new suspension that Soundsmith did about three years ago. I have been very happy with the work and it's on my main table. This table is flanked buy two others with Blackbirds as well with the factory Boron cantilever. One of the reasons the Blackbird is a better cartridge and cost twice as much as a EVO III, witch I also have is the cantilever material. The EVO has a honking fat aluminum cantilever that isn't as ridged as something like Boron or a stone like Ruby and as so doesn't retrieve the sound vibrations as well out of the grooves.

A big step-up when you have to get a retip on a EVO is to opted for a better cantilever material and choice of stylus shape that might suit you needs better. When doing a retip this doesn't cost much more and definitely not double the cost as it is between the BB and EVO. Also make sure the whole cantilever and suspension is being replaced as the suspension can rot and just get old, maybe hard or soft and not function correctly. If you watch the vids or know about cartridge technology weight at the tip is important also, the weight of the stylus, the cantilever and even the coil. There is tons of info on this, it's called mass, this is what makes the cartridge low, med and high compliance. So if you take a cartridge and do a retip by glueing another stylus from another cartridge onto it. and insert a metal rod into the two halves to join them you just added weight with the glue and the metal dowel. You just change the mass and rigidity willy nilly and who knows what the compliance is now.

 

[4-2-7]

A little more info
https://www.sound-smith.com/options-cantilever-and-stylus-shapes

And here, this info is really good to know if you looking to retip a cartridge and the reason of staying in compliance of the factory cartridge. You can also understand how the cantilever will change the compliance, you might want to mod a cartridge to work better with your arm, and maybe a retip might change the compliance in a direction that is detrimental to to the compliance with your arm

http://www.theanalogdept.com/cartridge___arm_matching.htm
The amount of distance that a cantilever deflects under a given force load is referred to as cantilever compliance. Higher compliance cantilevers deflect a greater distance when a given amount of force is applied. Lower compliance cantilevers deflect lesser distances when the same force is applied. In other words; high compliance = softer, low compliance = stiffer.


Resonant frequency of the cantilever is used as a guide to match suspension stiffness (compliance) of the cartridge to the tone arm's (effective) mass.

Resonant Frequency (of the cantilever) The acoustic frequency at which the cantilever will become excited and vibrate out of control. )) This frequency is measured in cycles per second. Also referred to as 'hz'. Resonant frequency of a cantilever is regarded as inescapable and the effect is controlled by manipulating this frequency to exist in a range below human hearing but not so low that it will become excited by external vibrations such as foot fall disturbance or that of a warped record. This ideal frequency range is 8 to 12 hz. The lowest of low organ notes rarely go below 20 hz. Footfall and record warps happen below 6 hz.

The effective mass of a tonearm in combination with the compliance of the cartridge cantilever serves to determine where the resonant frequency of a given tonearm/cartridge match up will be.In general terms, arms with high effective mass fitted with cartridges of high compliance result in resonant frequencies that fall below the ideal range. At the opposite end, arms with low effective mass mated to cartridges of low compliance result in resonant frequencies above the desired range. Both extremes are to be avoided.

 

[theophile]

This reminds me of a joke:

A leper goes to a brothel. As he was leaving he said "You can keep the tip".

 

[LotusFool]

Thank you 4-2-7 for all of this information you have kindly given. For me this is like trying to get a drink of water out of a fire hydrant, but I want to learn all of this, and not be at the mercy of folks who want to sell me something, or worse yet, buy the wrong thing.
Thanks again,
Gary