I have ordered a Pioneer PLX-1000 direct drive turntable.....
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Frank Sol
Lunatic Member
I think poster naimnatnod would agree with you...
http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=669301
tnsilver
Stereo Puppy
So a word of education then?
I find the blank groove method of setting anti-skate, that I've been ok with for decades, is really just an approximation. A test record, such as the HFN analog test LP, will show you that the blank groove setup is a good starting point, but you will need to fine tune it quite meticulously later. That's what the following tracks on that record are for and they are common on other test LP's.
When you're done with those obstacle course tracks, you will note your initial AS settings are pretty far from what they were when you started. If you set the stylus in the middle of the blank groove again, after it's been setup properly, it will not stay in the middle of it. Most likely it will moderately skate inside toward the spindle.
The blank groove is by far better than nothing at all - but it's under no circumstance scientific, or even accurate. At best, it's a good starting point for further enhancements of the AS settings.
WaynerN
Addicted Member
If you have many turntables, you will discover that all of them behave differently from each other, as far as AS is concerned. For example, the Rega RB300 exhibits some force even set at zero, but there is only a small section (inbetween the null points) that the arm will remain stationary. The dial closely matches the recommended position. My 2 Technics arms will have a less then effect at the very first 1/2" of the record, but then will stand in position at almost anywhere I put the arm. The dial indicator is at a position that is somewhat more then recommended
My 2 Sony decks (PS-X5, which Frank has now), and the PS-X7 behave exactly the same and position where I place the AS setting actually matches the dial and the arms stay put anywhere you place them.
The blank disc will visually tell you that the AS is working. The Blank disc will get you into the neighborhood of where your AS setting should be. Pretty hard to set AS in a modulated groove.
Again, as I stated before, my VU meters, my ears and the fact that there is no record wear is the ultimate indicator for me that the technique has validity. It's way better then just believing what number is on a dial, especially when it comes to vintage tables.
'ner
My 2 Sony decks (PS-X5, which Frank has now), and the PS-X7 behave exactly the same and position where I place the AS setting actually matches the dial and the arms stay put anywhere you place them.
The blank disc will visually tell you that the AS is working. The Blank disc will get you into the neighborhood of where your AS setting should be. Pretty hard to set AS in a modulated groove.
Again, as I stated before, my VU meters, my ears and the fact that there is no record wear is the ultimate indicator for me that the technique has validity. It's way better then just believing what number is on a dial, especially when it comes to vintage tables.
'ner
Frank Sol
Lunatic Member
WaynerN
Addicted Member
Now, Neobop and Garven keep harping on me that my review has inconsistencies. That is true. But the review went like live TV. When I first got the table, I was very excited. The tables does look cool, and I had very much high hopes for it. I quickly put an AT440MLa in the headshell, did a very quick cartridge set-up and started listening to some music. As you may recall, I made a comment that I was typing while listening.
After the initial palying and listening was finished, I began a process that I used to better evaluate the table. That is when the troubles began. This also proves that I didn't buy the table to do a review (and I still find that.....well, it pisses me off to no end). Anyway, I further was checking the cartridge alignment, and as anyone that aligns their cartridge with the 2 point method, it can be a long process. At the end of that process, I concluded that I was very close to a Baerwald alignment, but close is no cigar. That is when the first realization occurred. Then i grabbed my Grado cartridge and that is when the hum occurred. Then I gabbed the blank disc and then that is when the AS deficiency occurred.
The review evolved from excitement to almost bitter disappointment in a matter of a couple of hours. I then had to decide if I was going to keep the $700 table and start modifying it or be honest with myself and send it back, because it did not live up to my expectations. You know the rest of the results.
Did I change my mind? Sure. The table table made me send it back.
After the initial palying and listening was finished, I began a process that I used to better evaluate the table. That is when the troubles began. This also proves that I didn't buy the table to do a review (and I still find that.....well, it pisses me off to no end). Anyway, I further was checking the cartridge alignment, and as anyone that aligns their cartridge with the 2 point method, it can be a long process. At the end of that process, I concluded that I was very close to a Baerwald alignment, but close is no cigar. That is when the first realization occurred. Then i grabbed my Grado cartridge and that is when the hum occurred. Then I gabbed the blank disc and then that is when the AS deficiency occurred.
The review evolved from excitement to almost bitter disappointment in a matter of a couple of hours. I then had to decide if I was going to keep the $700 table and start modifying it or be honest with myself and send it back, because it did not live up to my expectations. You know the rest of the results.
Did I change my mind? Sure. The table table made me send it back.
tnsilver
Stereo Puppy
I don't know now... Wally doesn't seem, judging by the picture, like the type of guy who'd settle for a blank groove AS setup. My method (well, not really mine, I just happen to use it) is pretty much feasible. Wally's... Eh... Is it AS he is attempting to set? Looks like linearity is the name of the game here. Azimuth maybe?
Frank Sol
Lunatic Member
Doing that (beheading the messenger) is easier than admitting the TT has problems when they had such high hopes for it -- even tho they have never used/heard the PLX1000... Strange :scratch2: Unless they have an agenda.
Frank Sol
Lunatic Member
FWIW: I use a test record on my personal TTs
However... When in a hurry or when I'm away from home helping someone else I do the 'flip the blank CDR over' trick then listen through headphone if possible
Frank Sol
Lunatic Member
Think so... He calls it 'Wally Skater' - Mikey likes it
Lifted from Analog Corner:
The Wally Skater ($85) consists of an acrylic plate that fits over the spindle and sits on the platter, attached to a vertically mounted, foot-long acrylic rod. Protruding from the rod at right angles are two more acrylic rods—one close to the platter, one at the top. Attached to the one at the top is a sliding device to which are attached two threads. At the end of one is a plumb bob, at the end of the other is a loop you place around your tonearm's finger lift.
You have to be very careful when first using this contraption or you're likely to swing your stylus into oblivion. I recommend securing the stylus guard before you proceed. First you adjust the plumb-bob thread so the bob hangs just above the lower rod, which contains a sideforce scale marked off in 1% increments. Attach the other thread to the finger lift and adjust the thread so the stylus floats between 1/8" and 1/4" above the platter. Play around with it a bit before removing the stylus guard. But never use this device with a felt or sticky mat; inevitably, the thread will slip and the stylus will contact the surface below. If it's felt or rubber, bye-bye stylus.
Once you've got the hang of this device (pun intended), and with the protruding rods at a right angle to the arm and the antiskating disconnected, the plumb-bob and finger-lift strings should be opposite each other at the same marking on the scale—wherever you have the plumb bob. If you move the top slider from which both the plumb-bob and finger-lift strings are suspended, the arm should instantaneously follow the plumb bob. This will be the case with top-quality arms. If there's a lag, you can measure the distance the plumb bob moves before the arm does. If your tracking force is 2gm (2000 milligrams) and it takes three marks on the scale before the arm moves, that's 3% (each mark is 1%), or 60mg of resistance that you must take into account when setting antiskating. In other words, subtract the 3% from the 10% of antiskating you wish to apply, since the arm's horizontal friction supplies 3% of it.
Read more at http://www.analogplanet.com/content/analog-corner-34#1bJTWkUZ6R3D1rFF.99
Garven
Active Member
I didn't invent the term. I see it quite frequently, usually from folks who are sick and tired of the same old rants from the same people who always seem to have their own agenda.
Garven
Active Member
If it weren't for that AT pre-amp, I'd have sprung for the 1240 a long time ago. I just don't want to have to perform surgery and void my warranty to get decent sound from any MM cartridges I might use with it.
Garven
Active Member
You keep accusing folks of having an agenda here. It seems to be an obsession with you. So what's your agenda, Frank?
Frank Sol
Lunatic Member
Read my posts in this thread... Trying to be fair about what I have 1st hand knowledge on/about
Frank Sol
Lunatic Member
Garven
Active Member
You admitted that you only checked the Pioneer out in a shop with your kid. That hardly makes you more qualified that someone who has admitted to not having first-hand experience. Did you audition it, check the alignment potential, antiskate, etc. I may express disappointment with Wayner's inconsistency, but I have commended him on doing his review.
Garven
Active Member
Nope but I have read enough comments from folks with AT-LP120's who've had to remove their preamp and heard their before/after samples to know the AT pre-amp, which is also used in the 1240, sucks. I also know I've discussed it with naimnatnod concerning his, which he said sounded bad with an MM.
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Garven
Active Member
Why don't you ask the folks in this thread who've said their PLX-1000's antiskate is working ok? Why don't you go over to the Hoffman forum and ask the folks there who own a PLX-1000 if their antiskate ir working ok? You're jumping to a conclusion not supported by the number of claims and asserting it as fact.
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