I need a little help...

Isiah

New Member
As the title reads, I am in need of some help understanding the differences in amps. I currently have a Marantz 2230 driving a pair of JBL L80Ts. I like the sound but not the looks of the speakers so I've been trying to find something a bit more vintage that goes with everything else in my house. Unfortunately, I have yet to find the right ones.

So, my question is, do I need to find the speakers first and then match a receiver? How do you go about pairing something like that? I posted this question here because I probably cant afford a decent tube amp at the moment, so I'm guessing I need to stick to solid state.

Does more power mean anything really besides more volume? Does the sound change depending on the wattage? My 2230 only puts out 30 watts per channel I believe and that's driving 150W JBLs. Is that ok, or would that sound actually change with a higher wattage amp? I am currently looking at a 4275 because I thought that I needed more power.

And my last question for now. Is there a formula that helps determine the best amp for a set of speakers and vice versa?

Thanks in advance!
 
Large speakers does NOT necessary need a higher wattage amp to drive. It's all about the efficiency of the speaker. Some speakers can be loud enough even the amp is a single ended tube amp that is less than 10W.

I don't think there is any particular formula to match the speaker and the amp. In extreme case if you have a pair of panel speaker that require more power to drive, then you need a higher wattage amp. Most cone speaker is efficient enough that most amp can drive them loud enough.....unless you like to really crank it up. You have to listen to it to judge.

Most people never use over 5 to 6W average for home audio, high power amp gives you more headroom for any big transient. But that's not necessary the key, it all depends on how the amp recover after clipping. Some amp tends to stick when railed, some amp like tube don't stick, just clip and recover. The ones that recover better should sound better.

That said, it's total misleading to say the higher power the better. For me, it's the quality of watts, not the quantity of watts. Anything over 50W should be enough for home use. I'll take a good 50W amp any time over a bad 200W amp. You really have to listen to it, crank to the level you listen normally and judge it yourself. Just don't go out and get the highest wattage you can afford, listen to it. I heard high wattage amp that sounded like crap.
 
Your Marantz is a highly respected piece of gear, considered by many one of the best sounding low powered receivers of all time. With the preamp outputs you could easily add an external power amplifier and use your 2230 as a preamp.

A more powerful amp will help if you find yourself running out of power with your current unit. Do you find yourself with the volume knob turned up half way or more most of the time ? If so you need more power.....OR

Speakers can make a significant difference as more efficient speakers put out more sound(SPL) per watt than speakers with lower efficiency. Keep in mind though that speakers all sound different so finding a high efficiency pair that sound good to you may be like looking for a needle in a haystack.

You stated you liked your current JBL's except their looks. Have you considered either re staining or re veneering them and changing the grill cloth with something more vintage ? It wouldn't be too hard or expensive to make them look more vintage than they currently do.

No matter what, always remember YOU are the one who has to like what YOUR system sounds.
 
The 2230 has an awesome amp section. I would suggest either get something with more efficiency and easy to drive, like a Klipsch chorus or even a cornwall or one of those old EV's if you have the space or even a JBL L100 or L96. Make sure the L100 has metal dome tweeter not paper. The 96 has metal only if I recall.
Thanks.
Srinath.
 
More power doesn't always equate to louder. In my opinion it translates to Bigger and fuller sounding. A while back I went from a 40 watt Sansui to a 120 watt Pioneer and there isn't really a volume difference between the two but the fullness in sound from the Pioneer is quite noticable.
 
my only input is if you play it loud (really loud) and the amp is lower powered, then
there's a chance that when it clips, the output may destroy the tweeter.

two things you can do, use a higher power amp and limit the volume. or
get a volt-ohm-meter and get a rough estimate of the power at your upper
limit.

we can walk you through the test - just start a new thread. basically,
with the volume control at the limit you set for max volume, turn
amp off. replace speaker cable with large 8 ohm resistor and measure
the AC voltage across it when amp is turned on and the music resumes.
there's a formula p=e*e divided by R (in this case 8ohms).
 
Thanks for the replies guys. It's good to know the amp I currently have should be ok. i rarely turn the volume up too much, but I'd say that I turn it to about half or a bit more when I'm cleaning the house. So, perhaps I may need something a bit larger.

Another question, what exactly is clipping?
 
More power doesn't always equate to louder. In my opinion it translates to Bigger and fuller sounding. A while back I went from a 40 watt Sansui to a 120 watt Pioneer and there isn't really a volume difference between the two but the fullness in sound from the Pioneer is quite noticable.

So, is the difference caused by more power, or the characteristics and circuitry of each amp?
 
Thanks for the replies guys. It's good to know the amp I currently have should be ok. i rarely turn the volume up too much, but I'd say that I turn it to about half or a bit more when I'm cleaning the house. So, perhaps I may need something a bit larger.

Another question, what exactly is clipping?

clipping is when the signal gets too large for the amp and cannot go above
a certain limit, in this case, the voltage. so the signal gets limited or clipped
and the math involved says a square wave is the sum of all frequencies
(harmonics which are multiple of the basic note) higher and when the
tweeter gets this aggregated mess it cannot handle the power and fails.

(kinda like you can take a bite from a big mac but once you stack 6 of them,
you cannot open your mouth wide enough, and if you could take a chunk
you couldn't close your mouth to be able to chew it, and therefore you
cannot handle the large input)

tweeters are not the power-handlers like 12" bass woofers are. it is a good
idea to use a more powerful amp when you play it loud.

an alternative is to use a tube amp for the tweeter side - tubes have a softer
ceiling. has to do with the fact that tubes react differently to loud signals.
 
clipping is when the signal gets too large for the amp and cannot go above
a certain limit, in this case, the voltage. so the signal gets limited or clipped
and the math involved says a square wave is the sum of all frequencies
(harmonics which are multiple of the basic note) higher and when the
tweeter gets this aggregated mess it cannot handle the power and fails.

(kinda like you can take a bite from a big mac but once you stack 6 of them,
you cannot open your mouth wide enough, and if you could take a chunk
you couldn't close your mouth to be able to chew it, and therefore you
cannot handle the large input)

tweeters are not the power-handlers like 12" bass woofers are. it is a good
idea to use a more powerful amp when you play it loud.

an alternative is to use a tube amp for the tweeter side - tubes have a softer
ceiling. has to do with the fact that tubes react differently to loud signals.

Wow, thanks! That's a lot to take in and ponder! I don't listen loudly often but I do occasionally, so I'll be hunting for a larger amp within budget. There's a marantz 4270 locally that I'm trying to pick up.
 
that would be great. I'd keep the "lesser" Marantz - these puppies seem to go up in
value just by sitting there.

on the other hand your JBLs will rock.
 
Clipping is just as it sounds.

Imagine a sine wave on an oscilloscope with a smoothly flowing rise and fall of the "curve".

As you turn the volume up the distance between the high "peak" and the low "valley" gets larger.

Once the amplifier reaches it's limit it begins to clip off the top and bottom portion of the sine wave making it look more like a square wave. It's these periods of time the amplifier begins to output DC voltage and tweeters begin to die.

A simple and inexpensive way to protect your tweeters is to install a fuse in the circuit so when the amplifier begins to clip the fuse blows and not the tweeters. You can buy a whole bunch of fuses for a lot less than a tweeter.
 
I like the sound but not the looks of the speakers so I've been trying to find something a bit more vintage that goes with everything else in my house. Unfortunately, I have yet to find the right ones.
What style/look are you going for? When you turn it past 1/2 to clean house what type of music are you listening to?
 
This pic will give you a good idea of my house set up and what I'm trying to match. The JBLs sound good but don't match the decor. I did just pick up a set of Marantz DS-920s that look awesome, but need some woofers.

My music taste is all over the place, but typically when I'm really getting into music, I usually have on something like Pink Floyd, rage against the machine, old Metallica, AC/DC, CCR, bauhaus, Christian Death, Manson and the list goes on. Mostly heavier stuff I suppose. But I also love some jazz like Nina Simone, and rap from time to time. I recently bought some Tupac on vinyl.
 

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Your music preferences are definitely JBL territory. Any taller speakers and the placement by the tv will cause some issues. Your current speakers are 90 db sensitivity .If you could find some speakers in the 95 plus range you would be golden. If the woofers just need foam you could repair them.The clock is a nice touch.
 
That would be a nice sounding setup. The 2230 is low wattage and the JBLs are no efficient but they would be ok at low to moderate volume. You should try this (I know it can't be permanent based on your listening area but for a test), move the speakers forward two to three feet from the wall and then space them further apart (to where the island ends) and then play your 70s/80s rock. I think you will be amazed.
 
That would be a nice sounding setup. The 2230 is low wattage and the JBLs are no efficient but they would be ok at low to moderate volume. You should try this (I know it can't be permanent based on your listening area but for a test), move the speakers forward two to three feet from the wall and then space them further apart (to where the island ends) and then play your 70s/80s rock. I think you will be amazed.
I'll give that a try. At some point I'd like to build a listening room, but that'll have to wait until we buy a house, and I'm. It gonna buy in this inflated market!
I'm headed over to pick up the 4270 in just a bit.
 
More power doesn't always equate to louder. In my opinion it translates to Bigger and fuller sounding. A while back I went from a 40 watt Sansui to a 120 watt Pioneer and there isn't really a volume difference between the two but the fullness in sound from the Pioneer is quite noticable.

Your example is correct, SX-x50 and x80 receivers did have a full sound. Even the monster SX-1980 had that sound. However, the generalization you draw is not. More power usually translates to a faster amp which sounds clearer, more clinical, tighter, etc.
 
Your example is correct, SX-x50 and x80 receivers did have a full sound. Even the monster SX-1980 had that sound. However, the generalization you draw is not. More power usually translates to a faster amp which sounds clearer, more clinical, tighter, etc.
I'm about to pick up a marantz 4270 in an hour or so. Will there be a noticeable change over the 2230?
 
I'm about to pick up a marantz 4270 in an hour or so. Will there be a noticeable change over the 2230?
The 4270 has less power, 25W vs 30W, so you won't hear much difference. To hear a difference you would need something like a 2275 or even better a 2325. More power more effortless bass.
 
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