I sold my Garrard 301 project and kept my Thorens 124 no. Did i make a mistake?

Audioo

Active Member
Im hearing conflicting opinions from others that thorens 124 sounds great but according to some Garrard sounds better. I wanted to get big soilid plinth for it but opted to keep my two thorens projects. Im feeling bit regretful for getting rid of it.
Does anyone hear have both in custom plinths and synergistic arms to go along with them.
What was your overall musical impression?
I may look for a 401 instead next time
 
What was your overall musical impression?
The 301/401 is a motor-idler-rim drive whereas the 124 has a short, thick belt from the motor to a stepped pulley. The belt is supposed to isolate motor noise from the idler against the platter's inner rim.
Does it do so? I think so. I can clearly hear rumble on my friend's 301 while I do not on my 124.
 
Try bolting the 301 tight to a heavy plinth to eliminate rumble. If it doesn't help there are other problems. I'm changing the plinth at the moment as I listened to my 301 in a friends heavy, solid plinth and it was very, very quiet. I could hear slight rumble when sitting freely in my medium weight plinth. Can't tell if the sound improves until I try it in my system. Some say not to bolt it down but my friend insists on it. The 301 should be every bit as quiet as my TD-124 if I match the solid type plinth of the Thorens.

I've used the same arm at different times on both and sound wise didn't prefer either one over the other. But of course the 301 wasn't in a solid plinth. I won't say which one I prefer as far as looks as I don't want to start any arguments :D
 
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I'd have kept the 301 personally but, as has been said, this is a call only you can make.

As an aside, ear4audio is quite right - if you can hear rumble from a 301 then something is not right.
 
Motor is a lot better on a 301. And if you heard rumble, it needs mechanical and other fettling and the right plinth system.. 301 beats TD 124 when done right. More of what you want. I've had the TD 124 around and the 301 (on loan). The 301 is the one I lust for.
 
I have owned at least five 124s during the 30 years I've been using a 301. Switched from a 124 I used for a few years to 301 originally. Still have the 301 and no 124s.

All of these old TTs were $75 and you could stack them high because nobody wanted them in the 80s, except bottom trawlers like setup1!:naughty:

...and me.

Price was not part of the equation. Now, alas, it is.

That said I have always loved the liquid sound of 124s, especially for jazz, but just not as much as I love the 301, my turntable for life. I hear a certain effect, musical suspense/anticipation, that I don't get with other tables. I think it has to do with the eddy brake.
 
I'm wondering how long it takes for a 301 Grease bearing platter to stop spinning from 33 rpm after disengaging the idler?
My 124 (with sintered bronze bushings and turbine oil in the spindle well) takes at least 60 seconds. A quick search on the internet has some people timing their 124's closer to 2 minutes.
My friend's 301 Grease Bearing seems to spin with more friction. To me it seems like the grease is too viscous and increases the rumble. I tried different greases when I borrowed his 301 (white lithium was terrible). What grease do 301 owners recommend?
 
I'm wondering how long it takes for a 301 Grease bearing platter to stop spinning from 33 rpm after disengaging the idler?
My 124 (with sintered bronze bushings and turbine oil in the spindle well) takes at least 60 seconds. A quick search on the internet has some people timing their 124's closer to 2 minutes.
My friend's 301 Grease Bearing seems to spin with more friction. To me it seems like the grease is too viscous and increases the rumble. I tried different greases when I borrowed his 301 (white lithium was terrible). What grease do 301 owners recommend?
White lithium is not recommended. People are all over the map on what to use. The guy who rebuilt mine used something called RS multipurpose. He mentioned there is a type of bicycle grease that works well too.
 
'm wondering how long it takes for a 301 Grease bearing platter to stop spinning from 33 rpm after disengaging the idler?

Long. 15 seconds from 33 rpm, just checked Who cares? The table has an eddy brake which overshadows the friction in the bearing when it is on, which is all that I care about.

Plus it should have a platter brake that slows the platter quickly when turned off. Mine is worn out, otherwise it would be still in a few seconds.

I use thick soapy grease. Mobil 1 synthetic.

If you want long spin down, try a Rek o Kut R-34. Spins for minutes on that skinny 1/4" bearing but it is a piece of stamped tin junk otherwise.
Spin down time is in no way a measure of quality that I can see.

I picked up a new "modern" 301 bearing from sph on Lenco Heaven but haven't tried it yet. If it sounds better than the old grease being I will be a happy man, but I would hate to lose what I have.
 
Long. 15 seconds from 33 rpm, just checked Who cares? The table has an eddy brake which overshadows the friction in the bearing when it is on, which is all that I care about.
The spindle friction is what I was wondering about. When I helped my friend set up his 301, I got the impression the grease in the shaft was a little noisy and why we switched from White Lithium Grease to a looser grease. Even so, I thought an oil bearing would be quieter than a grease bearing.
The 124 eddy brake doesn't cause any physical friction, does not directly interact with the platter and has no effect on the spin down time.
 
I would switch to a heavier grease, or even heavy 90wt gear oil. This would have a damping effect, no?

When I chose grease bearing over oil bearing, I had several of each. The grease bearings seemed quieter to me in terms of background noise. I ended up putting a grease bearing in a then-near mint early series II with a built-in strobe light installed by the crafty guy I bought it from.

My point about the eddy brake is that it is on when the table is in use, so that would seem to swamp minor bearing friction issues while it is playing records. Who cares what happens in the different conditions of platter spin-down after shutoff?
 
The 301 has a top quality bearing. Most tables had a very small motor and friction is kept down to a minimum. The 301 uses a very large motor and friction is deliberately added in the center spindle by the use of grease.

When tested by a famous Hi-Fi magazine in Great Britian, while the grease bearing was still available new for sale, they noted " Lest it be thought that the speed variation and slowing down times indicate inferior performance compared with other reports published in this magazine.....tilting the table 2 degrees from horizontal made no detectable difference to the friction (as indicated by the slow down time) whereas in all previous machines tested, this small tilt made easily measureable differences in the time, sometimes even showing a 50% increase in spindle friction" This shows the quality of the bearing Garrard chose for the 301.

They noted that the 301 uses a platter brake, which stops the table in 11 seconds. I've found mine stops a bit quicker than what they found. This is needed as it doesn't have the clutch mechanism of the TD-124 for quick record changes. Both are great turntables and have their advantages. The TD-124 is very finely made. Mine always keeps perfect speed from the first revolution of the platter. Changing speeds creates absolutely no speed change adjustments. It runs extremely quiet and changing records is very easy. The 301 reminds me of a over built, yet precision table that would be just as happy in a professional environment. No nonsense and built for performance. I don't think I'll ever have a favorite.
 
The eddy brake (on my 124 at least) makes no "physical" contact with any moving parts. There is no friction and therefore no noise generated by the eddy brake during or after play.

There seemed to be more friction when free spinning the 301's platter as compared to my 124.

I'm suggesting (possibly for my own reassurance) that lower spindle friction implies lower rumble or other noises produced by friction.

Spin down time seems like a good indicator of spindle friction to me. The platter on my 124 takes forever to completely stop. It just gets slower and slower until it gently comes to a rest. The 301 I observed took much less time to spin down and it would suddenly stop as though it became "bound".
Perhaps my friend's 301 is improperly greased. It was his Grandfather's and had been well cared for, so I think abuse can be ruled out.

Just my 2 cents. My experience is limited to two units. On my friend's 301, it's audible through the speakers. My 124 doesn't have that issue. As I mentioned, perhaps my friend's 301 is improperly greased.

Both tables have their strengths and flaws. And they're both keepers.
 
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