Interesting article on cables...drama ensues...

[SoCal Sam]

...I don't know if things have changed on the Cutting Edge, but that view used to be seen as heresy on that forum. What got me kicked out was insisting that people could perceive the sound to be better simply because they like the look of the equipment better, even if objectively the sound is the same. To me this seemed obvious, but simply expressing that view was seen as insulting and unacceptable in the Cutting Edge. Again, that might have changed, but I know this was the situation a few years ago.

WTF? This is why I never visit The Cutting Edge. IME flipping gear and talking to buyers, I have come to accept psycho-acoustics as a real phenomenon. Psycho-acoustics triggers buys especially when the science behind the product is shaky or non-existent. The idea that something looks better suited for the task or simply looks more aesthetically pleasing leads to expectation bias and the perception of better sound. The most shocking and discrediting aspect of all this is that the cable cabal consistently denies science and now psycho-acoustics! (Mention Roger Russell in any cable thread and those who howl are guaranteed to be industry advocates.) Don't get me wrong, cables look cool and if of the right gage and size, serve a function.

 

[loopstick]

Yes! IMO, this is the way to shift opinion on cables. Friendly and inclusive. Instead, we often get thuggish and boar-ish behavior from the retailers. Thumb through the previous pages in this thread for examples.

Still - all of these discussions can survive if everybody conducts his own personal self according to the rules. You may not believe in "articulation poles" but that doesn't mean you can't admire the tongue-in-cheek earnestness of the way in which the concept is promulgated.

 

[SoCal Sam]

Yes! IMO, this is the way to shift opinion on cables. Friendly and inclusive. Instead, we often get thuggish and boar-ish behavior from the retailers.

Still - all of these discussions can survive if everybody conducts his own personal self according to the rules. You may not believe in "articulation poles" but that doesn't mean you can't admire the tongue-in-cheek earnestness of the way in which the concept is promulgated.

I realize "friendly and inclusive" border on PC gotchas but the lesson is appropriate. Despite all that they do, I too am fascinated and amazed at the value they create from what is essentially a couple of dollars of metal and insulation.

 

[Ken Boyd]

What amazes me is how some people don't take a hint, no a smack in the face when numerous times moderators have to remind the thread to get back on track, and clean up a thread, yet give it a few pages and back to the old beating the dead horse. It won't stop till they get a thread closed down, and many of the culprits are the same people over and over. Its like you all are just baiting the other side putting fresh meat in the trap just hoping they will come in to defend their stands.

 

[lini]

(...) It's almost like I hear a fellow German talking!

You'd need to imagine me with a Bavarian accent, though.


K_B: I think the original topic is sufficiently covered already - so I don't think it harms, if the thread is now continued with some further chat and exchange of opinions on that topic.


Greetings from Munich!

Manfred

 

[slimecity]

I find it very interesting that some posters are far more upset that a whistleblower put a little sunshine on this "society" than the possibility that the vendor was trying to pull something.

I think this is becoming the way of the world. Dissent seems to be getting shut down a lot faster these days when people act to expose issues.

I think its why the world of real investigative journalism in generally is fast disappearing.

Without wanting to start a seperate debate on this, a few names like Snowden and Assange come to mind.

 

[patate91]

A quick follow up on microphone and preamp he used.

http://www.realhd-audio.com/?p=6241

 

[hjames]

Enough with this divisive crap about who is a subscriber and who isn't. Its a PERSONAL CHOICE and NOT a requirement.
Just like the personal choice to do a budget system or to do high end gear. Its personal, not something to snob over others!

I swear, if I see that Subscribers have more rights crap come up again,
I'll get a superMod to start BANNING folks, subscribers or not!

Play nice or TAKE A HIKE!

 

[fmueller]

You'd need to imagine me with a Bavarian accent, though.

I'll just think of Gerhard Polt.

My Hinterländer Platt is a little more difficult to picture.

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinterländer_Platt

 

[spicer]

As ehoove pointed out, it is a one-sided report. I'm taking no sides, just asking, Who do you believe after a divorce?

All the wives of my ex friends are friends of my ex wife. Goes a long way towards answering that question. Actually, it's a Don Walker song that is blocked in this country as per U-tube. I have the CD which has it titled Cutting Back. Great music and My Ex- Wife is a seriously funny song. Just as an aside I am happily married with no ex. but find the song very funny in a serious sort of way. But cables... who knows, I certainly don't... I do know they made me a fair amount of money when I was selling them... and that was a real difference.

 

[hjames]

Again, it was a discussion about POWER CORDS, and bucking authority in a corporate based audio group.
Or maybe it was insulting vendors in a corporate based audio group.
But -- Power Cords, not interconnects (audio cables)

 

[lini]

Personally I just think they don't have the money to play in the sand box and always want to piss on others that do.

I don't think so. I'd rather think they're sometimes so concentrated on their mission to try to prevent other people from spending their money on false premises, that they don't really notice, if people base their buying decision on other, different premises or don't even care about the correctness of the premises, as long as they're pleased with the product/result. I.e., to me most people in the objectivist camp seem to have honest intentions - but they don't always have a talent for diplomacy, so that some don't notice, when their honorable quest for truth turns into a questionable crusade for truth.

You know, similar to those, who will always suggest the products, solutions or even ways of doing something they chose for themselves, regardless of whether that really fits to an advice seeker's request or not. Like for example those, who will still try to talk someone, who explicitely stated that he wants to buy a new turntable, into a used one, even if that person has already mentioned, that he or she is aware that this will most likely mean less good price-performance.

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

 

[lini]

I'll just think of Gerhard Polt.

I give you a Polt'esque: "Hihihi - Nikolausi!" for that. But yup, that's probably not too far off - although I additionally seem to have a bit of an Austrian colouration in my personal dialect, probably from watching ORF (Austrian TV) a lot during my childhood and youth.

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

 

[SoCal Sam]

What amazes me is how some people don't take a hint, no a smack in the face when numerous times moderators have to remind the thread to get back on track, and clean up a thread, yet give it a few pages and back to the old beating the dead horse. It won't stop till they get a thread closed down, and many of the culprits are the same people over and over. Its like you all are just baiting the other side putting fresh meat in the trap just hoping they will come in to defend their stands.

This is another fine example of opinion shaping. Note the not so friendly tone. We have seen it over and over again. Ironically, this could easily be a statement from the President of LAOCAS.

 

[musichal]

​

 

[restorer-john]

Didn't you mean a teacup?

 

[lini]

mh, r_j: We've got pratically the same idiom in German, just with yet another type of vessel: Sturm im Wasserglas.

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

 

[musichal]

Didn't you mean a teacup?

View attachment 1235861

Either way, that's what we have here, imo. And, yes, have heard it both ways, but cup's even better.

 

[spicer]

mh, r_j: We've got pratically the same idiom in German, just with yet another type of vessel: Sturm im Wasserglas.

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

Hi Munich.... even I can translate that German phrase, especially with that picture... practically a cognate. Appreciate the levity.

 

[spicer]

Again, it was a discussion about POWER CORDS, and bucking authority in a corporate based audio group.
Or maybe it was insulting vendors in a corporate based audio group.
But -- Power Cords, not interconnects (audio cables)

I appreciate that... honestly though I unthinkingly translated power cord to cable because to me in the way it is being discussed it is all wire, beyond that the article was about attitude... from both sides perhaps, but still attitude. And yes, when a customer brought it up I sold expensive cords and cables whether I thought performance claims had merit or not... never run contrary to a customer... levity is my intent telling the story here and more money was a real difference. One has an entirely different perspective on the retail side of a discussion... take yourself too seriously, become vested in an opinion, and you lose.