Investigating speaker wire: recommend two that sound obviously different

[soundmotor]

This diode effect asymmetric distortion will affect inner detailing and other subtle portions, and can be ruinous in high efficiency/ low power systems.

Yeah & likely why I've not noticed it as most of my systems were the inverse of that. I've never had anything close to a SET/high-efficiency speaker rig at home.

 

[Pio1980]

Tarnish, corrosion, and certain metallic contact combinations will cause this in conductor interfaces.

 

[Wildcat]

Stay tuned for my comparison of counterfeit and genuine article Furutech products.

I could add my counterfeit vs genuine Nakamichi connectors to the mix, except that I think they're all counterfeit.

WBT is a high-end connector as well, and there are counterfeits all over the Chinese web sites. There is one way to tell a genuine WBT from a counterfeit--I guess there was some sort of set screw in the WBT that uses a hex screw in the genuine item, but a slotted screw in the knockoffs. Otherwise, they look close enough that the untrained eye would probably not notice. Buyer beware, eh?

I'd seen the Nakamichi connectors and I agree--I don't think they ever made connectors (did they?), so it could be the counterfeiters are stealing the name for their own purposes. Is Nak even around anymore? I've seen a few stray things here and there, but I know that whatever might exist today certainly isn't the same Nak that had all the great cassette decks and components back in the day!

 

[Roadrash]

WBT is a high-end connector as well, and there are counterfeits all over the Chinese web sites. There is one way to tell a genuine WBT from a counterfeit--I guess there was some sort of set screw in the WBT that uses a hex screw in the genuine item, but a slotted screw in the knockoffs. Otherwise, they look close enough that the untrained eye would probably not notice. Buyer beware, eh?

I'd seen the Nakamichi connectors and I agree--I don't think they ever made connectors (did they?), so it could be the counterfeiters are stealing the name for their own purposes. Is Nak even around anymore? I've seen a few stray things here and there, but I know that whatever might exist today certainly isn't the same Nak that had all the great cassette decks and components back in the day!

WBT actually uses a torx head set screw, that was another tip off that the counterfeit Furutechs were fake. The phonies had torx screws like the WBTs, Furutech uses gold plated Allens. There are a number of subtle differences, but you pretty much need a real one next to the fake to see them. Or REALLY know your Furutech products I guess.

 

[Pio1980]

Torx really are a better option.

 

[Archguy]

I'm really tempted to use the eBay discount to buy the Accuphase cables I see there, but they're also from China and they're not cheap. So I sort of have the feeling they're counterfeit too. But they would look cool with my Accuphase amp, not that anyone would ever see them. One day soon I'll be eating ramen noodles, with really cool audio gear all around me. And I'll say 'wtf happened here?"

What would you rather go without: good sound or good food?
All I can say is thank god we don't have to choose. Yet.

 

[Archguy]

Too funny, I made a set of speaker cables from Western Electric wire for @Redboy last month using that exact braid. I'd not seen this type before I found your post. It was a bitch to use but I liked that it was flat as the cables wind up neatly when finished.

You don't need proper pants but the right kind of heatshrink is critical. Next time try heatshrink that is adhesive lined. It stays put and the wire + braid does not squirm. Also, if you aren't already, use a lighter to seal the braid when you cut it. And, put your heatshrink on the braid before the wire feeds through. Easier to finish that way.

Doing these up nice just comes with practice and you could redo the above quickly. I've been doing braid over electrical cord for custom lighting for a long while and can whip these out in fairly fast. You start figuring out easier ways to feed, slide, repeat the more more you do it. This flat stuff though was tough on the thumbs.

Thanks, I really should have read this post a few weeks ago, but you hadn't written it yet.
I presume you saw my results with the proper pants--I'm pretty happy with those.
About the silver, in particular silver sulphide, we talked it to death upthread..

But I appreciate the advice and will refer to it next time I do this stuff.

 

[soundmotor]

I'd seen the Nakamichi connectors and I agree--I don't think they ever made connectors (did they?), so it could be the counterfeiters are stealing the name for their own purposes. Is Nak even around anymore? I've seen a few stray things here and there, but I know that whatever might exist today certainly isn't the same Nak that had all the great cassette decks and components back in the day!

Yes, they made them in the mid 80s. I have a set somewhere. They are quite nice and one of the only choices then if you wanted a quality DIY cable end.

The other oddly enough came from Radio Shack. All alloy & Teflon and like the Nak pieces, made in Japan. In the late 80s RS discontinued those and the store blowout was crazy, like $0.50/set.

 

[soundmotor]

FWIW, I've a bit of experience with silver in another (non-audio) arena and it's a remarkably volatile element in this regard. We actually use absorbent strips--within sealed compartments--which attract the sulphur in the air, leaving less to interact with the silver. Granted copper is a bit reactive as well--there's no easy way out. But sealing with heat-shrink tubing or your material of choice becomes pretty important no matter which you choose. Another reason I like crimping spade connectors.

Taking a point from Ma Bell, they used mechanical connections in the field for all their line & board work. A properly crimped connection is gas tight and not subject to oxidation if done correctly. Their wire used was high purity solid core copper and not stripped until immediately before it was connected and tightened up. That kept oxidation at bay. (This stuff is great inside electronics projects too.) With a solid crimp you should be able to do this as well. The best crimpers are ones that encircle the crimp point as well as have width to crimp along the length of the terminal ferrule. When making some speaker cables & ICs crimping may not be possible but they can be soldered. If you immediately strip and solder oxidation won't occur.

Bell System trunk wire -

Thomas & Betts crimp frame -

 

[Wildcat]

A properly crimped connection is gas tight and not subject to oxidation if done correctly. Their wire used was high purity solid core copper and not stripped until immediately before it was connected and tightened up.

We had an old multi-line telephone system in our old office, and I recall taking something apart inside. I don't know how old the system was, but the wires I disconnected were all like shiny new copper, where exposed pieces were much darker.

I'm pretty sure this kind of thing is all done now using punch-down blocks. I would suspect those connections are just as reliable/clean due to the friction involved.

 

[Wildcat]

ext time try heatshrink that is adhesive lined. It stays put and the wire + braid does not squirm.

I plan on that myself. I bet I could get some of that custom printed--I want to get some with directional arrows printed on it. If I got enough in bulk, that might be a cool thing to sell online in smaller sections, as there are minimum orders involved.

 

[BigElCat]

The OP wanted to be able to hear the difference for sure.

I'd recommend buying a cheap roll of copper-clad aluminum speaker wire, like they sell for car stereos.

It sounds really bad....grainy and thin. A/B it with any other cables, I think most will hear a difference.

 

[soundmotor]

I plan on that myself. I bet I could get some of that custom printed--I want to get some with directional arrows printed on it. If I got enough in bulk, that might be a cool thing to sell online in smaller sections, as there are minimum orders involved.

I built a bunch of different cable sets for my car and found that regular shrink doesn't hold that well and may slide off. The adhesive lined stuff though has super grippy hot glue in it that activates when you shrink the tubing. Be sure you really, really, really, want it where you put it though. It is a mess to clean off completely if boo boo.

 

[soundmotor]

The OP wanted to be able to hear the difference for sure.

I'd recommend buying a cheap roll of copper-clad aluminum speaker wire, like they sell for car stereos.

It sounds really bad....grainy and thin. A/B it with any other cables, I think most will hear a difference.

I believe you'd be better off cutting the power cords from old VCRs or cable boxes and using those instead.

 

[soundmotor]

We had an old multi-line telephone system in our old office, and I recall taking something apart inside. I don't know how old the system was, but the wires I disconnected were all like shiny new copper, where exposed pieces were much darker.

I'm pretty sure this kind of thing is all done now using punch-down blocks. I would suspect those connections are just as reliable/clean due to the friction involved.

Punch blocks were done for speed. 100% that they are as good as the screw down ones. You don't have to strip the wire, just put it in the V and push the tool down.

The punch block is a type of IDC, insulation displacement connector. You've also seen these types I'd bet -

 

[soundmotor]

Thanks, I really should have read this post a few weeks ago, but you hadn't written it yet.

But I appreciate the advice and will refer to it next time I do this stuff.

Here's the set I made w/ adhesive shrink tying it all together. It's a little more money but you don't need much -

 

[Wildcat]

Punch blocks were done for speed. 100% that they are as good as the screw down ones. You don't have to strip the wire, just put it in the V and push the tool down.

The punch block is a type of IDC, insulation displacement connector. You've also seen these types I'd bet -

We used punch blocks in one of my networking courses a few years back, and I'd seen it used many years prior. They do grip quite well!

 

[Wildcat]

Here's the set I made w/ adhesive shrink tying it all together.

The first place I saw and used adhesive shrink wrap was when I replaced the downstream O2 sensor in my old CR-V. The wire got pulled out of the old one. What you can do with many of these is buy the generic Denso sensor with no connector on it, then splice it into the existing connector. Given the road abuse, salt, etc., having that splice well protected is important. The cost savings was substantial...maybe half the cost of the same sensor with the OEM connector on it.

 

[runnin']

...

Lastly, don't worry much about the silver tarnishing. That's the whole beauty of silver, the oxidation is conductive. There is some concern with the diode effect but that is more of an issue in an IC where the source signal is small. That isn't the case on speaker cables and if even measurable I really doubt it's audible.

On the topic of tarnishing, I found something that will stop bare copper from tarnishing. It’s called Penetrox E by a company called Burndy, and they call it a joint compound. It’s thick paste that looks like copper in a grease form and you code your bare copper ends fresh from stripping off the insulation.

Audioquest uses something like this by the looks of it, when I partially took apart some rocket 44 speaker cables.

And on my earlier conversation in this thread, a poster inferred that sulphur Is common in the air and will tarnish copper or silver speaker cables. This seems strange to me, or am I wrong?

The only stat on sulphur I can find, suggests it is at about 1.3 ppb in the atmosphere.

 

[Archguy]

I think I'm the one who implied that--or said it outright actually. I've never studied the reaction of copper and sulphur, but with silver it's definitely the primary reactant. When we store bulk silver we include sulphur-absorbing strips in sealed compartments. It makes all the difference.

Tarnish on silver is actually silver sulphide. You can reverse the process this way (I've done it many times).

Here is an alternate description/instruction:

Silver tarnishes in air to form a black coating of silver sulphide, which has the formula Ag2S. The chemical equation for the formation of silver tarnish following reaction with hydrogen sulphide (H2S) is as follows:

2 Ag(s) + H2S(g) → Ag2S(s) + H2(g)

There’s speculation that, in the present day, tarnishing of silver actually occurs more quickly due to the increased amounts of hydrogen sulphide being released into the atmosphere by the combustion of fossil fuels and the like. This silver sulphide tarnish can be quite easily removed using polishes that contain abrasives to rub off the silver sulphide, but these have the disadvantage of also removing small amounts of silver. Handily, chemistry provides a method which sidesteps this problem.
​

Meanwhile I'm fascinated by your reference to Penetrox E for copper. Would like to know more. Copper, unlike silver, will patinate which produces an attractive brownish/greenish color depending on the nature and composition of ambient air (more polluted urban areas produce a greener color) but I don't think sulphur is a primary component of that reaction.

In my professional work I've actually worked with a paint company to reproduce the color in question for painting new or old metal window mullions. It can be very attractive, and doesn't require actual copper for the effect!