Ozmoid, please take a look at MusicGiants.com and let us know what you think. They claim to be the only download source for true CD quality and SACD. I haven't had the time to really look yet, but it's on my list...which grows daily.
IPods and You
- Thread starter Negotiableterms
- Start date
ozmoid
Lunatic Member
Musicgiants.com
MusicGiants is claiming encoding at 1100+ bps in lossless Windows Media format. The software runs only on Windows XP, and the music is (naturally) DRM. There are no details about the DRM restrictions, other than you can't convert the files to other formats. The files will only play on the computer they are originally downloaded to, unless you update your DRM files to enable another computer. The way this reads on the site, it sounds like only one computer at a time can be enabled. Of course, you can burn the files to Audio CD then you're home free, the DRM should be gone.
Songs are $1.29 each, service only works in the US, and albums average a little over $15.
I can't try it out, because I'm running Mac OS 10.3.8 and don't feel like searching for a windows hack after midnight. One of you guys already on XP give it a shot!
MusicGiants is claiming encoding at 1100+ bps in lossless Windows Media format. The software runs only on Windows XP, and the music is (naturally) DRM. There are no details about the DRM restrictions, other than you can't convert the files to other formats. The files will only play on the computer they are originally downloaded to, unless you update your DRM files to enable another computer. The way this reads on the site, it sounds like only one computer at a time can be enabled. Of course, you can burn the files to Audio CD then you're home free, the DRM should be gone.
Songs are $1.29 each, service only works in the US, and albums average a little over $15.
I can't try it out, because I'm running Mac OS 10.3.8 and don't feel like searching for a windows hack after midnight. One of you guys already on XP give it a shot!
ozmoid said:
WOW!!! You're fast! I've been meaning to give them a look for weeks now, but it's tax time, so I'm swamped. Thanks very, very much for your effort!
Overall, do you think it's a step up from the others, as claimed?
sorenj07
Super Member
I would go with a rio karma personally. I've had an ipod and it's not all it's cracked up to be - sure everyone at school has them, and the buttons are nice, but it was _horrible_ for playing cds of mixed songs, for example, not only because of the inherent padding introduced with mp3 encoding but because there's a delay of about a half second REGARDLESS OF FORMAT when playing back on an ipod. However, to put things into perspective (and to calm down a bit 
), Apple does have solid tech support, the nano is small, and I doubt your child will get as bent out of shape over these flaws as me - so in effect, it's a question of what she would want. You know her better than us
), Apple does have solid tech support, the nano is small, and I doubt your child will get as bent out of shape over these flaws as me - so in effect, it's a question of what she would want. You know her better than us 2DualsNotEnough
Addicted Member
I owned a 30gb ipod last year,and since I was only using it when doing chores around the house or after my wife went to sleep,I found it a daunting task to stop what I was doing to access the song or set of songs I wanted,plus it seemed a little bulky to me.I also hated the fact that if I wanted to add songs to it later I had to keep my entire playlist on itunes,THEN add songs to that playlist to download.
I thought that maybe this format was just too much for me,until I read a few really informative articles on Consumer Reports website about different types of players.I found that for me,the flash players were best,since you didnt have that big hard drive,and on some you could add an external SD memory card to increase storage.When I went shopping for one this week,I found out that a lot of companies have phased out the external card feature.
I finally found an RCA Lyra that was perfect for my use-external card option,small,flash player,256mb built in,and best of all it was only $40.Im using it with my Grado SR-60's,and its not a bad combination.Its pretty limited in the kind of files it will accept-it wouldnt take my AAC files,but overall,Im pretty happy with it.Its like the modern version of the old cassette walkman:you wouldnt use it for critical listening,but its a lot more convenient than carrying around a cd player and a stack of cds.
Jimmy
I thought that maybe this format was just too much for me,until I read a few really informative articles on Consumer Reports website about different types of players.I found that for me,the flash players were best,since you didnt have that big hard drive,and on some you could add an external SD memory card to increase storage.When I went shopping for one this week,I found out that a lot of companies have phased out the external card feature.
I finally found an RCA Lyra that was perfect for my use-external card option,small,flash player,256mb built in,and best of all it was only $40.Im using it with my Grado SR-60's,and its not a bad combination.Its pretty limited in the kind of files it will accept-it wouldnt take my AAC files,but overall,Im pretty happy with it.Its like the modern version of the old cassette walkman:you wouldnt use it for critical listening,but its a lot more convenient than carrying around a cd player and a stack of cds.
Jimmy
ozmoid
Lunatic Member
Sorry, NT, I missed this when you posted it.Negotiableterms said:
CD audio is encoded at 1,411.2 kbps. iTunes downloads are certainly lower than THAT, and certainly lower than MusicGiants. I will check out the encoding tomorrow when I'm at my "music" computer and post again.
Now I'm also curious about the "Apple Lossless" encoder in iTunes, and how it compares to CD audio vs. iTunes Store vs. MusicGiants. I do know that downloaded Tracks sound pretty darn good at iTMS, and I'm wondering if that's a variable bitrate... :scratch2:
ozmoid
Lunatic Member
The skinny on iTunes:
Music Purchased from the iTMS: 128kbps, 44.1 hz.
AIFF file at 48 hz: 1536 kbps
AIFF file at 44.1 hz: 1411 kbps
Apple Lossless encoder: 958 kbps, 44.1 hz
I use iTunes (the software) to RIP/MIX/BURN ( ) and I like it - simple interface, loads of settings for audio import, good results even with high compression ratios (<192 kbps).
I use iTMS (the music store) mainly for the "Free Track" featured each week. It's a great way to find new artists I might not have otherwise heard/discovered. I also like the DRM Apple uses, it is very generous (IMHO) with the number of times you can burn each track to disc, or the number of times you can burn an individual playlist. And as always, once you have the songs on CD, they can be re-imported (usually at a higher bitrate to reduce artifacting/quality loss issues) DRM-free.
Downloaded songs sound quite good on all the systems I've tried them on, some of you may have gear that reveals the "lack" of these mp4's more readily than mine does.
Music Purchased from the iTMS: 128kbps, 44.1 hz.
AIFF file at 48 hz: 1536 kbps
AIFF file at 44.1 hz: 1411 kbps
Apple Lossless encoder: 958 kbps, 44.1 hz
I use iTunes (the software) to RIP/MIX/BURN (
) and I like it - simple interface, loads of settings for audio import, good results even with high compression ratios (<192 kbps). I use iTMS (the music store) mainly for the "Free Track" featured each week. It's a great way to find new artists I might not have otherwise heard/discovered. I also like the DRM Apple uses, it is very generous (IMHO) with the number of times you can burn each track to disc, or the number of times you can burn an individual playlist. And as always, once you have the songs on CD, they can be re-imported (usually at a higher bitrate to reduce artifacting/quality loss issues) DRM-free.
Downloaded songs sound quite good on all the systems I've tried them on, some of you may have gear that reveals the "lack" of these mp4's more readily than mine does.
iPod and the KID
Doesn't seem to have been any activity in here for some time so perhaps it's time to point out Krell's KID coming out later this month. (11/07) It essentially by-passes the iPod circuitry, has an integrated pre-amp with a Krell DAC.
I spoke with the Krell rep here in Canada and he commented that after testing it with WMA files, everyone in the room agreed that it "sounded unbelievably close to the Krell 505." I ordered one without even listening as I had been waiting a long time for someone to come up with such a device which essentially turns your iPod into a quality and inexpensive music server. (relatively speaking) as for me I only buy CD's and rip using lossless on my iMac so it seemed perfect.
Oh, and I almost forgot. Along with the KID I just ordered a pair of MC 1201's to power my 802D's Will be getting that in January as it was seriously over my budget. But after a lot of research and reading on this forum, I felt it was the best choice as my room is fairly large. I did look at a lot of other amps and almost bought a Krell. I am so glad I didn't and that I discovered Mcintosh before I made what I would consider to have been a mistake.
Any one else thinking of the KID? Now if only Mcintosh made a comparable device...
Doesn't seem to have been any activity in here for some time so perhaps it's time to point out Krell's KID coming out later this month. (11/07) It essentially by-passes the iPod circuitry, has an integrated pre-amp with a Krell DAC.
I spoke with the Krell rep here in Canada and he commented that after testing it with WMA files, everyone in the room agreed that it "sounded unbelievably close to the Krell 505." I ordered one without even listening as I had been waiting a long time for someone to come up with such a device which essentially turns your iPod into a quality and inexpensive music server. (relatively speaking) as for me I only buy CD's and rip using lossless on my iMac so it seemed perfect.
Oh, and I almost forgot. Along with the KID I just ordered a pair of MC 1201's to power my 802D's Will be getting that in January as it was seriously over my budget. But after a lot of research and reading on this forum, I felt it was the best choice as my room is fairly large. I did look at a lot of other amps and almost bought a Krell. I am so glad I didn't and that I discovered Mcintosh before I made what I would consider to have been a mistake.
Any one else thinking of the KID? Now if only Mcintosh made a comparable device...
onepixel
.
This is the first I've heard of Krell's The Kid. Sounds quite interesting. I know that a lot of manufacturers have jumped on the iPod bandwagon with and endless array of products. But hearing that Krell made a dock is worth taking notice.
I have a 3rd generation 20 gig iPod so I neede to upgrade to a 160 gig. But the more you wait the bigger and cooler those buggers get. I was actually considering a Mini Mac as a music server.
This past weekend I was fooling around with the iPod. I hooked it up to a Cary tube preamp and a vintage Marantz Quad in 2-channel. They're driving some Thiels and the combo sound pretty darn good. I'm hopefully upgrading soon to a new tube amp so that'll probably sound even better.
As for The Kid, the reviewers seemed very impressived. I'm still not quite sold yet using the current iPod as a server, maybe in time.
Thanks for the heads up.
centralflori
Super Member
Does anybody use the Cowon(Jetaudio) mp3 players such as the XL5 30GB or the D2. Speaking from experience the XL5 blows away the ipod on sound quality and build quality IMHO. Also helps to have a good pair of Sennheiser headphones. Not trying to put down the ipods, just know that most here really care about sound quality and most have not heard of or used these Cowon units.
I have been using an iPod for some time now; am on my second video version. The big problem with these units are design and support. Apple does NOT support their product. They encourage having them engraved, which they do for free, as it voids most of the warranty. Just try talking or emailing with a real person. That said, the darn things need a replaceable rechargeable battery, like a battery drill or the old cell phones. The video mode drains power fast, and the batteries do die. This has been an innovation that Jobs et al have stubbornly refused to implement.
Now, the real question. I have hooked my iPod up to Shure in ear headphones, and the sound is extraordinary, but when I hook the iPod up to the Aux input on my stereos the sound is muffled and sounds as if it were sonically limited. I don't have the electronics to explain why this is happening. It sounds a bit like comparing a low quality cassette to an audiophile LP or a CD. Can anyone explain this to me?
Now, the real question. I have hooked my iPod up to Shure in ear headphones, and the sound is extraordinary, but when I hook the iPod up to the Aux input on my stereos the sound is muffled and sounds as if it were sonically limited. I don't have the electronics to explain why this is happening. It sounds a bit like comparing a low quality cassette to an audiophile LP or a CD. Can anyone explain this to me?
I have a Gen 3 ipod, it is easy to use and looks cool as it has control buttons that glow and the scroll pad works in combination. I also have an iriver IHP 120, a nice unit and cheap. Both have been loaded with freeware, by rock box ( www.rockbox.org ), this is open architecture, and it allows you to load transfer and even record in WAV and I transfer and enjoy FLAC files with them every day. The iriver is the live AUD bootleggers device of choice for stealth recording. The iriver is bullet proof when rockboxed, the ipod software is good but a little buggy, when you load the ipod it also keeps Steve Jobs on board and you can switch to open mode or itunes mode upon boot up.
Krell KID (Krell iPod Dock) observations
Not too long ago I posted about the new iPod docking station by Krell which bypasses the internal iPod circuitry. It has a small preamp section, Krells DAC does the decoding and is fully balanced. Mine was delivered on Friday (10/30/07)
Right out of the box the quality using lossless files was very good. I played it all through the weekend (about 50 hours of play) I'm really not sure if it was my imagination or not but at about 40 or so hours of burn time the preamp section really opened up. The highs were exceptionally smooth with gorgeous mid detail and a wide sound stage.
With the arrival of the Krell KID, in my opinion the iPod has come of age. A very nice, good quality server at a very reasonable price. Anyone in the market for something of this nature should certainly have a listen. Krell did not disappoint - It actually exceeded my expectations.
Not too long ago I posted about the new iPod docking station by Krell which bypasses the internal iPod circuitry. It has a small preamp section, Krells DAC does the decoding and is fully balanced. Mine was delivered on Friday (10/30/07)
Right out of the box the quality using lossless files was very good. I played it all through the weekend (about 50 hours of play) I'm really not sure if it was my imagination or not but at about 40 or so hours of burn time the preamp section really opened up. The highs were exceptionally smooth with gorgeous mid detail and a wide sound stage.
With the arrival of the Krell KID, in my opinion the iPod has come of age. A very nice, good quality server at a very reasonable price. Anyone in the market for something of this nature should certainly have a listen. Krell did not disappoint - It actually exceeded my expectations.
rushfan
Super Member
I have always maintained that really well encoded mp3's sound good, as do high bitrate WMA files. One thing that I have noticed is that most mp3's clip since they don't have the bandwidth to adequately reproduce the original signal. The trick is to reduce the gain in order to eliminate the clipping. MP3Gain is ideal for this purpose and better still - it's free.
tlgibbs
Well-Known Member
There are some things that iPod does very well
Like any music media, there are pros and cons to what an iPod can do. I personally have an 80 gig iPod and find it to be extremely good at one important thing: travel. I can load my favorite music on my iPod and take it wherever I want. There is simply nothing that even comes close to iPod's portability. I always keep a patchcord with my accessories so that I can plug in to any home system or use my own portable speakers. I take it camping, flying, everywhere. Within my circle of friends I am known as the man with the tunes, because I always have my iPod and I'm ready to plug in.
I have done side by side comparisons of the sound quality of mp3 versus vinyl, cd, tape, etc. The compression takes something away, no doubt about it. But how many times has someone said to me "gee, I dont think the guitar solo on While My Guitar Gently Weeps from your iPod has as much presence as on my remastered version that I play through my expensive SACD through my esoteric amplifier and into my expensive speakers!?" Of course the answer is never! Are mp3's perfect? No. Do they do some things very well? Yes. Would I want it as my only music source? Probably not. But I wouldn't want any media format as my only source. Each has it's place.
That's my 2 cents worth.
Like any music media, there are pros and cons to what an iPod can do. I personally have an 80 gig iPod and find it to be extremely good at one important thing: travel. I can load my favorite music on my iPod and take it wherever I want. There is simply nothing that even comes close to iPod's portability. I always keep a patchcord with my accessories so that I can plug in to any home system or use my own portable speakers. I take it camping, flying, everywhere. Within my circle of friends I am known as the man with the tunes, because I always have my iPod and I'm ready to plug in.
I have done side by side comparisons of the sound quality of mp3 versus vinyl, cd, tape, etc. The compression takes something away, no doubt about it. But how many times has someone said to me "gee, I dont think the guitar solo on While My Guitar Gently Weeps from your iPod has as much presence as on my remastered version that I play through my expensive SACD through my esoteric amplifier and into my expensive speakers!?" Of course the answer is never! Are mp3's perfect? No. Do they do some things very well? Yes. Would I want it as my only music source? Probably not. But I wouldn't want any media format as my only source. Each has it's place.
That's my 2 cents worth.
rhom
ESL Lover
As you can see from my signature line, I have the Wadia i170 iPod docking station. This product is similar to the Krell KID that Goldbug7 has written about in that docking your pod sends code from the Wadia to disable your iPod's internal DAC. Unlike the KID, the wadia was intended to be used with the external DAC of your choice, there is no supplied DAC. I am using a McCormack DAC-1 that I purchased for $250 off Audiogon. The Wadia comes with a remote that works on your iPod
I purchased the Wadia even though you can also see that I am a Krell owner. Not because of anything being wrong with the KID, but just a cost consideration. The Wadia is about $375 when ordered directly from the company. Used DACs are relatively inexpensive and all of them are more than good enough for use with an iPod. So, depending upon the DAC you purchase, you can have a Wadia setup for a lot less than the KID.
I agree with Goldbug7, the audio quality of the better MP3 and iTunes files lurking within our iPods is a lot better than any of us may think! I have been very impressed and have greatly enjoyed listening to my iPod music collection.
I bought the Wadia because I have acquired some 10,000 plus MP3s & iTunes downloads of vintage pop music, 95% of which I do not have the original LP or CD recordings. Playing my iPod through a standard docking station, which bypasses the iPod's internal audio amp gives mediocre audio quality (you are hearing the iPod's cheap internal DAC). I wanted better sound quality and it would cost a fortune to buy the original tracks.
As mentioned, I am greatly enjoying this setup. Most tracks are as Goldbug7 has described; open, smooth, great resolution and soundstage, much cleaner bass. It all depends upon the recording, no different than with source LPs or CDs. The sound of many of these vintage tracks is much better than I can recall from the LPs and audio systems of my college days. Good enough that I no longer look for the originals.
Note: the Wadia works only with the current iPod generation (6th generation), either hard drive or memory chip versions or iTouch/iPhone or the 5th generation iPod Video. You really want the latest generation anyway, much more capacity and much faster CPUs to find your tracks. I hooked my old pod up in my car, great move. Another note: if you rip CD tracks in Apple Lossless format, the sound quality is pretty much indistinguishable from the CD original.
The Wadia or the KID are highly, highly recommended. Buy either one and you just acquired the most user-friendly high-end music server system on the planet. Fill up your pod? Just buy another and divide your music genres between them. Might make you decide against buying one of those $5K-$10K audiophile music server systems. Also, IMHO the Squeezebox series units don't sound nearly as good as these unless you hook them up to external DACs, they aren't as user friendly as your pod either.
Best Wishes,
Rick
I too have the Wadia. In fact, I have two of them, and would like to buy two more (3 homes and one office system...).
I've had no problems with them at all, and I find the quality on Apple Lossless to be every bit as good (or even almost better) than the CD.
A high-capacity iPod and a Wadia is all the music server most folk will ever need, and anyone with an HT receiver has a DAC that can work with the Wadia.
Honestly, I think the 170 is the product of the decade.
I've had no problems with them at all, and I find the quality on Apple Lossless to be every bit as good (or even almost better) than the CD.
A high-capacity iPod and a Wadia is all the music server most folk will ever need, and anyone with an HT receiver has a DAC that can work with the Wadia.
Honestly, I think the 170 is the product of the decade.
Njord Noatun
Super Member
The Wadia sounds like a great dedicated iPod pre-amp and one that I would like to try one day: Pretty pricey, no?
As an alternative iPod based solution - and this is the digital setup I am currently enjoying - the iPod Touch has built-in WiFi, and can acquire audio streams from your PC or Mac and pass it onto your amp (or Wadia).
Such setup would be beneficial if you have more music than can fit on even the high-capacity iPods. It also allows you to keep only one copy of the music - on your PC (or Mac or ext. hard drive) - instead of keeping one copy on PC and one on the iPod.
I can recommend the Touch as a music server after having tried it for a while - no skips, failures to connect or dropouts on (802.11) "G" WiFi - works fantastically. :thmbsp:
Edit: And it does Pandora, too!
More info here.
It's not really a preamp, it just sends the digital stream to your outboard DAC. Pricey? Hmmm... $375 certainly isn't cheap, but it's the only game in town.
