Is the Klipsch Horn better than the Pioneer

[toxcrusadr]

As an appreciator of Klipsch (not so much a fan boy), I think among the Klipsches I would not choose either Heresy or La Scala for the very reasons stated. If you want to try a horn Klipsch, find a pair of kg4 or 4.2. I would stand up my 4.2's with aftermarket titanium diaphragms against the Pioneers any day on smoothness (i.e. lack of harshness) and bass extension.

 

[Dswankey]

I have never heard the pioneers, based on looks I would say klipsch.

Seems I have little to gain by purchasing black painted LaScala speakers --

I could be wrong but it sounds like the OP is describing a pair of industrial LaScala's?, which in most cases were in black, very heavy & large and to my eyes are butt ugly.

Note the handles on the side.

 

[welcomdmat]

I could be wrong but it sounds like the OP is describing a pair of industrial LaScala's?, which in most cases were in black, very heavy & large and to my eyes are butt ugly.

Note the handles on the side.

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I certainly am. The ones that I have ever even seen were from an out-of-business movie theater. They are painted black and look even more industrial that the ones you have pictured.

There is some strange dream inside of me to own LaScala speakers, but there is no way I'll ever demo them within reasonable effort. I have continued with my modest selection for the time being.

 

[Tom Brennan]

There is some strange dream inside of me to own LaScala speakers, but there is no way I'll ever demo them within reasonable effort.

Well then take a chance, what the Hell. You might like them; Hell, I liked them when I was young and wanted to hear “Caress of Steel” at 120db.

 

[GregDunn]

I owned both Heresys and LaScalas and IMO they both sound like Hell, with poor tonal balance with poor bass extension and harsh upper midrange and highs. However they also have the formidable virtues of excellent dynamics and low distortion and those virtues win over many people. This mix of strong virtues with strong faults is what makes these speakers controversial “love or hate” items. That’s why you should hear them yourself and make up your own mind. They <are> worth a listen.

Note that the drivers in the Klipsch speakers are not of a particularly high quality but were chosen by PWK because they were “good enough”.

This is it in a nutshell. Some people value the dynamics and presence of a horn over all other attributes. Others (like me) get a headache listening to them: I've tried again and again to listen to the JBL, Altec, Klipsch horn drivers in many different rooms and I just can't. You have to listen to them and make up your own mind. The odds are good that someone else's prize will be your nemesis.

 

[tarior]

If it were me, I'd snag the LaScalas. If you don't like them, you likely won't have much trouble selling them.

 

[damacman]

We really should take into consideration the type of space that a LaScala needs to gel with the listener. These are not nearfield speakers by any means.

I have heard Klipsch Heresys absolutely rock the house with bridged MC2155s running them and flashing the Power Guard lamps - with zero equalization. And do so all night long ...

Properly set up with good front end electronics, both are quite capable speakers worthy of the moniker High Fidelity.

 

[drumbum]

Kabuki basically describes speakers which were made to look impressive, rather than be designed according to sound engineering principals. Typical characteristics include using multiples of midrange and treble drivers, with a simplistic crossover.. They also often combine multiple design concepts like acoustic lenses make a reference to JBL but which don't actually do anything, or combining dome and horn tweeters in the same cabinet.

They also often have a very large woofer in an undersized cabinet, making them very impressive looking and loud but lacking in deep bass response. In short, they were designed to look cool, and to SELL, rather than be accurate, which is in principal against the overall goal of high fidelity..

"Kabuki" speakers were basically made by most of the mass market Japanese companies in the 1960s - 1970s. This isn't to say every speaker which came out of Japan is bad, there's plenty of exceptions (for example, Yamaha's Natural Sound speakers of the 1970s were fantastic sounding and by no means Kabuki), but the whole "kabuki" bad reputation thing is not about prejudice against Japan, it's more a prejudice against gimmicks and appearance being given priority over high fidelity.

You would only want to buy Kabuki style speakers now if re-creating an era is your priority, there is absolutely no performance related reason to buy them. On the other hand, if you want your living room to look like a 1970s bachelor pad, by all means, they're almost ideal. I rebuilt a set of Sansui Kabukis and had lots of fun playing with them. They are certainly more entertaining to look at as objects than the more conservative speakers which were aimed at people with more refined taste.

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I don't think those pioneers qualify as "Kabuki".

 

[whoaru99]

...But, in all fairness titties and beer were also equal parts of that equation.

Speakers...what speakers? Oh, yeah, speakers...

 

[maxhifi]

I don't think those pioneers qualify as "Kabuki".

Really? I looked at the manual on hifi engine and I see some arguments for and against calling them kabuki

For:

-bass starts to roll off about 80Hz, showing that the enclosure is too small for the enormous woofer

-off axis response is not wonderful, despite using so many drivers

-using a horn tweeter with a dome super tweeter is hard to understand, usually speakers are consistent with what technology is used for tweeters.

-it's a six way speaker which starts rolling off at 80Hz and about 15k,

Against:

-Crossover is very complex and appears fit for purpose

-Overall build quality looks very high

-made for most of the 1970s

I don't know how it's possible to say they aren't a Kabuki speaker, not that it would stop me from being curious how they sound, they do appear to check most of the boxes

 

[drumbum]

Really? I looked at the manual on hifi engine and I see some arguments for and against calling them kabuki

For:

-bass starts to roll off about 80Hz, showing that the enclosure is too small for the enormous woofer

-off axis response is not wonderful, despite using so many drivers

-using a horn tweeter with a dome super tweeter is hard to understand, usually speakers are consistent with what technology is used for tweeters.

-it's a six way speaker which starts rolling off at 80Hz and about 15k,

Against:

-Crossover is very complex and appears fit for purpose

-Overall build quality looks very high

-made for most of the 1970s

I don't know how it's possible to say they aren't a Kabuki speaker, not that it would stop me from being curious how they sound, they do appear to check most of the boxes

CS-705 pioneer, looks like a four way. Do my eyes deceive me?

 

[maxhifi]

CS-705 pioneer, looks like a four way. Do my eyes deceive me?

I thought we were discussing the CS99a

 

[damacman]

I consider them both close to the last words in hifi.

Let me elaborate a bit so there's no misunderstanding. When discussing truly hifi loudspeakers, "Heresy" and "LaScala" are two of the last words i'd ever use. In my world of hifi they are at the entry level. There are just too many better loudspeakers out there.

They're high sensitivity loudspeakers, i'll certainly give them that.

But, high sensitivity is expensive and many high sensitivity loudspeakers pay dearly for it in multiple ways. Rolled off response at both ends is usually the highest price, Heresy and LaScala could be poster children for this. Low end extension can be purchased back with increasing box size. You gotta go real big to maintain sensitivity and extension. No matter how you fold it, a horn has to be big to go low.

IMO, the Cornwall is hands down the best balanced of the bunch, the K-horn could qualify but the proper set up is only possible in certain rooms. I lived with Cornwalls in the mid 70's and once thought they were the greatest speakers ever made. Once i heard and lived with multiple better loudspeakers, my perspective changed greatly.

I cannot take that away from them, i have heard Heresies rock the house all night long on big power too. But, in all fairness titties and beer were also equal parts of that equation.

So, frequency response limited at both ends ... Shall we compare the Valencia to the LaScala and the Santana to the Heresy in regards? Add in the titties and beer and the Klipsch win big!

 

[Dswankey]

While were on the subject of Titties & Beer, the industrial La Scala's the OP is considering would of more the likely been utilized on the road by a touring band or maybe house speakers for a fictitious club such as "The Brasserie" immortalized if this FZ gem

 

[maxhifi]

I remember seeing pioneers like those suspended over the dance floor at a night club, although the Klipsch are much, much more likely to be used commercially.

 

[Hajidub]

I don't think those pioneers qualify as "Kabuki".

Only way to determine their true kabuki-ness is Led Zep II cranked to 11.

 

[biscuithead]

I don't know... I guess I'm just confused and biased. I can't understand why the Pioneer CS speaker line are being compared to Klipsch Heritage line. I've had most of them and I sent all the Pios packing. I do have a large space, and I do love the horns. The closest I came to keeping a set of pioneers were the CS-901s and the Cs-R700s... but some Pioneer fan came along and offered me enough for each pair to buy another two sets of Cornwalls. SOLD!
I know I liked the Klipsch better...

 

[analog addict]

Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see you mention a price. Not that you're asking a question of value, but if you can snag then for $700 or less, I'd grab them. You should easily be able to make that back if you don't like them

 

[nolasally]

^^^ Hes looking at me Allen I have zero issue with ugly high efficency speakers. Lascalas sound nice on my Dennis Had Fire bottle amp!!

 

[avguytx]

So, frequency response limited at both ends ... Shall we compare the Valencia to the LaScala and the Santana to the Heresy in regards? Add in the titties and beer and the Klipsch win big!

Out of all of the speakers I've owned/heard in the last 30 years, the two pairs of Valencia's (846b's & Milano's) were the worst two pairs of speakers I've ever owned hands down. They fell into the "no highs, no lows" category. Stock to stock comparison, I would live with almost anything Klipsch before I would the Valencia's again.

I recently built a pair of Belle's from scratch using all brand new drivers and crossovers and they sound great. I don't listen to anything with pipe organs playing so I really don't miss the low, low stuff. I'll add/build a sub once we build our new house just to augment the sub 50hz stuff, but, with them up against the wall and the listening position being 12 feet away, they will surprise you on the low end.

Yep. Titties, beer, and Klipsch.