Is this a rip off?

I think after a certain date in 2009, diamond star trannies (hyundai, kia) only use a fine mesh screen in the pan which you have to clean with each change.

My OLM for my 2003 N* caddy says my tranny oil life is at 100%.......114K....
 
They seriously have "fuel system treatment" that involves a bottle of magic juice as one of the scheduled tasks? I'm not personally a believer in that stuff, but a bottle of Techron is what, 10 bucks?
Techron is known as a good fuel injector cleaner, and cheaper than having them professionally cleaned with the proper equipment. Techron around here was $8-$9, and I don't mind throwing one in the tank every so often. Using Top Tier gas also helps, and in Michigan, that is available at most major gasoline chains except Greedway Speedway. (Avoid the no-name crap, in other words.)

Most things have 100K coolant now, and honestly have for a bunch of years now Check the owner's manual, the maint schedule is in there. If this uses standard green antifreeze ~30k is about right though.
I think my two newer CR-Vs are 100k, then 50k thereafter. They are timed so that when the coolant is drained via the bottom of the radiator, you get out some, but not all, of the old coolant. It's all calculated to keep the coolant "fresh" without having to drain or flush out all traces of it. I only use the Honda coolant, right from the dealer. It's pre-mixed, and it's the right stuff that won't damage the internals of the engine (as the cheaper coolants are known to do).

My buddy is a mechanic at a fairly large Honda dealership, and 90+% of all of the CVT transmissions that they replace have failed due to improper "service" at one of those places. It is so prevalent that they stock spare trannies on the shelf--rebuild is not even an option--just chuck in a new one. Of course, the improper service voids the warranty, so open your wallet and dig DEEP.
I don't know if anyone has had any luck suing the quick lube shops over this. I've read this same thing so many times. Those grease monkeys at the lube shops grab whichever hose is available to "top off" fluids. Some still don't know the difference between auto tranny and CVT. Others just grab the wrong hose out of habit. Hell, they did it to one of my dad's cars, topping off the power steering with the wrong fluid, ruining the pump. Thing is, he'd been to a few shops and couldn't tell which one had done it.

I was able to find Toyota documentation on what the authorized repair should have taken in hours and the unauthorized repair showed 1 hour of labor (in parentheses was the notation CTR 1.0 next to the charge).
Public service message: all of the automakers have this information. Ford calls it SLTS (service labor time standards)--this is how they determine the "book rates" for warranty work, to reimburse the dealers. (My ex has worked with it on and off since the late 1980s.)

Brake fluid, IMHO, is more of a safety issue....being hygroscopic (it absorbs water), it`s not a bad idea to change/flush it every 2 to 3 years....
I think it should be part of scheduled maintenance. Nobody notices that their brake pedal gets softer over time, but they do. I'm due to do this on our cars here. It's a messy job and requires two people, so I prefer to handle it all in one day. The power steering fluid probably could be drained and filled as well.

I've just been setting my alignment with carpenter's tools and getting about as good results as I had been getting at shops, sometimes better.:rolleyes:
When we were in the economic pinch a decade ago, my tires got torn up by poor alignment. When I got the new tires (worst ones I ever bought, BTW), I held two yardsticks together with rubber bands and used them to check the inside distance between the front wheels, at the front and rear of the wheels. I adjusted the tie rods, got 'em to measure equal, and those miserable tires lasted way longer than I wanted them to. :D Since the tire dealer offered a free alignment check, I had them run it when I got the nitrogen topped off, and my front wheels were within spec. (They were way toed-out previously, which tore up the inside edges of both tires.)
 
When we were in the economic pinch a decade ago, my tires got torn up by poor alignment. When I got the new tires (worst ones I ever bought, BTW), I held two yardsticks together with rubber bands and used them to check the inside distance between the front wheels, at the front and rear of the wheels. I adjusted the tie rods, got 'em to measure equal, and those miserable tires lasted way longer than I wanted them to. :D Since the tire dealer offered a free alignment check, I had them run it when I got the nitrogen topped off, and my front wheels were within spec. (They were way toed-out previously, which tore up the inside edges of both tires.)
I had a Ford Aspire, and had an alignment done. As soon as I left the shop, I noticed the steering wheel was crooked. I took it back, and they corrected it a little, but it was still crooked. He said the crown of the road was causing it.:bs:

Later on, I replaced most of the front end components and the struts because it broke a coil spring and a couple parts were starting to wear out. I set the camber with a plumb bob and the toe with a tape measure like you did. It took a couple tries setting the toe to get the steering wheel perfectly centered (I am anal about that), but the car drove much better than it ever did, and tire wear was perfectly even.
 
No doubt a tech that knows and cares about what he is doing, using a properly calibrated machine should be able to do a better job, but that's damned hard to find anymore. When you drive an older vehicle, they seem to care even less.

I've experienced problems with alignments, but I have two places now that can actually do it. One a good personal friend works at, and the other is a place run by a guy I've known since I was about 6.
 
I've experienced problems with alignments, but I have two places now that can actually do it. One a good personal friend works at, and the other is a place run by a guy I've known since I was about 6.
A few years ago when I was still restoring pickups, I did a lot of fords with the TIB/TTB front ends. since they ALWAYS get new springs you use a set of complex angle bushings to set the alignment. To most techs, the instructions are greek. But in reality, if you understand the subject matter, its the easiest alignment on the planet (for example just set it to indicated -1/-1, go get on a machine and using the camber/caster miss, re-read the chart and make 1 small correction per side THEN set toe. 20 minutes of your life)

a local sears still had the hunter machine so I would go there with each truck and spend an hour showing the tech what to do (with current ASE certificates all over the walls). Each time I did this, the manager would invariably offer me a job, holding my own inspection certificate which is how most chain shops pull in the $$ - by finding 'faults' during the annual cycle. (if you willfully go to monro, firestone, or goodyear centers for anything but tires, you are asking for a butt rape)

sadly, they are closing sears faster than they cancel Roseanne shows so its time to find a new machine (I do not have the room in either garage to buy my own machine for what wont get used that much....its not like its a strut compressor....) I did find a rough fella at a flynns tire and auto who learned how to do his first alignment in a field and who understood the subject matter so that may be a possibility. Just a few weeks ago I popped a new front end on my deville and set my alignment before I drove 45 minutes to the nearest sears to find that I was all in the green (but not perfect) except for cross camber. Geometry, is your friend!
 
A few years ago when I was still restoring pickups, I did a lot of fords with the TIB/TTB front ends. since they ALWAYS get new springs you use a set of complex angle bushings to set the alignment. To most techs, the instructions are greek. But in reality, if you understand the subject matter, its the easiest alignment on the planet (for example just set it to indicated -1/-1, go get on a machine and using the camber/caster miss, re-read the chart and make 1 small correction per side THEN set toe. 20 minutes of your life)

a local sears still had the hunter machine so I would go there with each truck and spend an hour showing the tech what to do (with current ASE certificates all over the walls). Each time I did this, the manager would invariably offer me a job, holding my own inspection certificate which is how most chain shops pull in the $$ - by finding 'faults' during the annual cycle. (if you willfully go to monro, firestone, or goodyear centers for anything but tires, you are asking for a butt rape)

sadly, they are closing sears faster than they cancel Roseanne shows so its time to find a new machine (I do not have the room in either garage to buy my own machine for what wont get used that much....its not like its a strut compressor....) I did find a rough fella at a flynns tire and auto who learned how to do his first alignment in a field and who understood the subject matter so that may be a possibility. Just a few weeks ago I popped a new front end on my deville and set my alignment before I drove 45 minutes to the nearest sears to find that I was all in the green (but not perfect) except for cross camber. Geometry, is your friend!
It's VERY hard, if not impossible to find a place that will set a TTB/TIB front end correctly. Some will even refuse them or just set the toe and send you on your merry way.

I had a hell of a time doing them when I first started doing alignments, but I got a little better once I understood what all the angles were and how it worked. We really didn't do enough of them to perfect my skills, though.

My boss, who was supposed to be teaching me, knew even less than I did sometimes.:rolleyes: I just could never seem get it right using the chart that came with the bushing, but I had a good enough idea where it needed to be just by guestimating where to start, and just rotating it from there.

One thing I learned the hard way because I had a Bronco II and I did it to a customer's vehicle, was that if you overhaul the front end with most or all new parts, you really can't just do the alignment immediately while it's still on the rack. The vehicle should be driven around a bit for everything to settle in. The B II and the customer's lifted F150 were perfect according to the machine, but as they were driven, they went out of wack and had to be redone. Lifted trucks seem to be even worse about it.
 
or you get the classic "toe and go" alignment. I rebuilt the front end on my Towncar when I upgraded the brakes. It was all new from the control arm bushings out, every single part that was designed to be replaced had been. I took it somewhere local to my friend's place in Bugtussle, PA and explained what had been done, and what i wanted. Front end was 1998-2002 Towncar, I wanted it aligned to those specs. I get it back and it drives funny. A look at the alignment report shows caster and camber completely out to lunch, and basically the same going in as coming out. I asked about it and I was told "those numbers don't matter" and "its not adjustable anyway". I got my money back.
 
Just for the record, this one has run off the tracks and I'm fine with it. I'll be tuned in. Don't worry if we go off topic as long as nobody is offended:thumbsup:
 
Thanks for the Great thread! I can BS all day about my first hobby too!

On that alignment issue, has anyone tried those affordable Caster /Camber gauges. I had a really nice Bubble one with a magnetic base I lent out years ago (before I got to use it) and never got it back. You know the story where the borrower said he brought it back.

Recently I bought a new one, but much cheaper at $60US , but recommended in the older Hot Rod/Car Craft mags. I have another similar I bought years ago, but the instructions were lost with the bubble gauge. I can now compare the two!

http://www.maximummotorsports.com/Camber-Gauge-P192.aspx

Sure turn plates would be nice , but some say grease between pieces of sheet metal works as well?

As for Toe , maybe the string method is the most accurate for all 4 wheels anyway?

I don't think you need the pricy electronic machines to get the most accuracy , as they are for production type work (speed to make big $) anyway .
 
Last edited:
Thanks for the Great thread! I can BS all day about my first hobby too!

On that alignment issue, has anyone tried those affordable Caster /Camber gauges. I had a really nice Bubble one with a magnetic base I lent out years ago (before I got to use it) and never got it back. You know the story where the borrower said he brought it back.

Recently I bought a new one, but much cheaper at $60US , but recommended in the older Hot Rod/Car Craft mags. I have another similar I bought years ago, but the instructions were lost with the bubble gauge. I can now compare the two!

http://www.maximummotorsports.com/Camber-Gauge-P192.aspx

Sure turn plates would be nice , but some say grease between pieces of sheet metal works as well?

As for Toe , maybe the string method is the most accurate for all 4 wheels anyway?

I don't think you need the pricy electronic machinesto get the most accuracy , as they are for production type work (speed to make big $) anyway .
I haven't used any of the gauges yet. I used a fancy schmancy computerized machine where I used to work, though.

I read that salt or sand between pieces of metal works OK and is less messy than grease. Another DIYer said put the wheels on some old magazines that have slick glossy paper.

The handful of times I did home alignments, I just rocked the car back and forth when I made changes and rechecked, and when I thought I had the toe exactly where I wanted it, I took it down the road and rechecked it after. It usually stayed right on.

That gauge looks interesting, but it doesn't say whether or not it does caster measurements. Some vehicles, especially ones with struts, don't even have provisions for adjusting caster but that's still a feature I wouldn't want to be without when I eventually buy one.
 
Last edited:
It does caster and that's where the turn plates could be handy as you have to turn the wheels 20 degrees out then in 20 and measure and multiply a factor to get the caster. I would think you would have to turn the wheels in a similar manner for the electronic units.

Instructions:

http://www.maximummotorsports.com/assets/install/pdf/tools/MMT-3.pdf
That's cheaper than most if not all of the gauges I've seen. If it works well, even better. Someday I'll have one and a set of turn plates.

You did have to turn the wheels for the machine to measure caster, but you didn't have to pay any attention to how many degrees the wheel was turned. The machine told you exactly when and where to start and stop turning. It also had a live adjustment setting for when you adjusted caster and camber. If you bumped the part that attached to the wheel, the reading was useless and you had to start all over, though.:rolleyes:
 
Not long ago I was overcharged on a repair by a Toyota Dealership in Lodi. Did one repair that was not authorized and overcharged labor on the repair that was. The labor overcharge was both too much per hour and too many hours. I was able to find Toyota documentation on what the authorized repair should have taken in hours and the unauthorized repair showed 1 hour of labor (in parentheses was the notation CTR 1.0 next to the charge). Using that information I filed a protest with my credit card company protesting the overage (not the full bill). They requested supporting documentation by mail. Instead of simply writing out what I thought was wrong with the bill on their form letter I sent a full documentation package with the information I found on the web as to how long the repair should take, the fact that the unauthorized repair was not needed as part of the authorized repair, pointed out the line on the receipt that showed their 1 hour labor charge and recomputed the labor charge for that amount of money.

The credit card company took some time to resolve the issue but ultimately awarded me a permanent credit to my account for the full amount I contested. Dropped a $900+ bill down to around $475 or so.

Don't know if this could help you, but on any credit card purchase, if you think the charges are incorrect, you have the right to contest them through the credit card company and they will explain your rights and the process. Documenting the overcharge and how much it is, and proving that is up to you however.

Hope this story is useful for you.

Shelly_D


Here is a followup to this story. This happened last November at Thanksgiving. The pump that dealership in Lodi installed just failed. No I am not going back to them, they used substandard parts once, they will do it again. I can get a replacement from Amazon for $70 and 2 gallons of the coolant (only need 1 but 2 is only about 50 cents more from a different seller) for another $50. I know that I can get stuff just as good for less, but I really don't know which of the aftermarket fluids meet the Toyota spec for their "Super Long Life" as opposed to their "Long Life" stuff.

Cautionary story indeed. Rip off on the labor and then used a part that goes bad in 8 months.

To those in California, if you have a Toyota that breaks down in or around Lodi, do not go to their local Toyota Dealership.

Shelly_D
 
Back
Top Bottom