Just bought a Hashimoto HM3 SUT on fleabay

Discussion in 'Turntables' started by mjw21a, Sep 18, 2018.

  1. mjw21a

    mjw21a Super Member

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    Haha, me too. Paid for it this morning :)
     

     

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  2. mkane

    mkane AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    This should be good. Don't skimp on the wire or RCA's if it's a DIY project.
     
  3. mjw21a

    mjw21a Super Member

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    Does anyone know where I can source a metal box big enough to fully enclose the HM7 or any box's made specifically for the Hashimoto HM series of SUT?

    No, I've some solid brass RCA's double plated in pure copper that I'll use, and the output will be a 1m length of shielded Litz copper with ETI Cryo RCA's. Will use UPOCC wiring internally. :)
     
  4. Wildcat

    Wildcat Audio Sommelier Subscriber

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    Wait...HM-7 or HM-3? I don't see HM-7s for sale unless I'm missing them. They are a more expensive transformer with a different ratio.
     
  5. mjw21a

    mjw21a Super Member

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    I've a HM-3 and have pulled the trigger on a pair of HM-7. Need to find a box will fit it though
     
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  6. edwyun

    edwyun Super Member

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    From my conversations with Hashimoto a while back:

    The Live! MC-90X mounts the Hashimoto HM-X MC step-up transformers. The HM-X was the second oldest MC step-up transformer developed a few years after the HM-3. The purpose of the HM-X development was to introduce a MC step-up transformer that is not as powerful as the HM-3, but that can express the smoothness of music expressions. As the result, the Live! MC-90X is somewhat a unique model due to the very fine and tender, but settled sound quality. The HM-X shines with classical and string music.

    The Live! MC-901 mounts the Hashimoto H-2018 custom made MC step-up transformers. The Hashimoto H-2018 was originally developed about 5 years ago for a Russian audio company for their need for lower step-up ratio of x10 (can be configured in x20). The sound quality of the H-2018 turned out to be excellent with sensitive and transparent, but still powerful music expressions.

    The Live! MC-903 mounts the Hashimoto HM-3 MC step-up transformers. The HM-3 is the oldest design Hashimoto offers, but it's an excellent sounding and the most popular MC step-up transformer we offer. I believe the bass sound of the HM-3 is the best among our products.

    The Live! MC-905 mounts the Hashimoto H-2257 MC step-up transformers. The Hashimoto H-2257 is our newest model, specifically designed for the customers who do not need too much gain, but like to have a little push with the dynamic and vividness of the Hashimoto step-up transformers with the x5 ( can be configured in x10) step-up ratio.

    Finally, the Live! MC-907 mounts the Hashimoto HM-7 MC step-up transformers. The HM-7 is our flag ship product with the US made, certified OFHC copper wire windings for the most transparent, detailed, and realistic sound quality.
     

     

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  7. mkane

    mkane AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    Correct. Connection for 15: or 30:1. 15:1 is just about perfect for a Denon 301mkII
     
  8. Balifly

    Balifly Listening Subscriber

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    Would the HM-7 be suitable for the Denon DL-S1 ? :idea: :)

    - Type: Moving coil
    - Output voltage: 0.15mV
    - Frequency response: 20Hz-70kHz
    - Recommended load impedance: Over 100 ohms
    - Channel balance @ 1kHz: < 1db
    - Channel separation @ 1kHz: > 28dB
    - Stylus tip: 0.07 x 0.07 mm square solid diamond
    - Compliance: 14 x 10-6 cm/dyne
    - Recommended tracking force: (1.3g +/- 0.2g)
     
  9. mkane

    mkane AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    Wired for 30:1 you will have 29.54dB gain, loading 52.2 ohm. Wired for 15:1 23.53 dB gain, 208.9 ohm loading.
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2018
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  10. mkane

    mkane AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    Lot of money to spend. I have 15:1 Beyerdynamic you are more than welcome to try if you pay to ship both ways. Shouldn't cost more than $5 each way. It's really small.

    Edit: just caught a glimpse of your location.
     
  11. mkane

    mkane AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    The HM-3 may be a better choice with options being 20:1/40:1. 20:1 gives you 26.02dB gain. 117.5 ohms loading. resistors can be used if needed. All this if using mm stage @47k ohm
     
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  12. Wildcat

    Wildcat Audio Sommelier Subscriber

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    OK, I finally found the page on the Internetz, in terms of what is available.

    http://www.tube-amps.net/Hashimoto_Products.htm

    The MC SUTs are halfway down the page. The HM-X looks interesting, which @edwyun lists above. It looks like pricewise, it is poised halfway between the HM-3 and HM-7, and has the same two ratios as the HM-7.

    upload_2018-11-5_23-5-20.png

    This of course is the same seller that is selling these on ePay.
     
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  13. mjw21a

    mjw21a Super Member

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    Might be..... I find the HM3 has far more gain than expected getting quite high volumes with my 0.12mv Philips GP922 into a phono with a gain of 40db..... I rather suspect it comes down to a combination of how much gain your phono stage has as well..... Too much gain leads to feedback.
     
  14. Wildcat

    Wildcat Audio Sommelier Subscriber

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    That is why I might consider the HM-X, as it has 1:15 and 1:30 ratios. Yet if I get enough gain from 1:20, I would be happy. My big concern, though, is what happens if I replace the ART7 in a few years and get an MC that is slightly higher output, like in the 0.3mV to 0.5mV range. Would 1:20 be too much gain?

    The phono stage I am looking at has a gain of 49dB. Yet I saw another phono stage on my short list come up for sale as well, and it has Cinemag "Red" transformers inside. Unless the pricing of my first choice is low enough, I may just go with this alternate (which is also highly regarded). It offers 64dB of gain at its top setting.

    I had also read that tube phono stages can be quieter than solid state since the tubes do not have the same inherent noise as transistors (that "rushing" white noise sound in my current phono stage, which is making me look at changing it out).
     
  15. rothwellaudio

    rothwellaudio Forums Sponsor Sponsor

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    A typical mm phonostage has about 40dB gain and an outboard step-up transformer adds about 20dB more for LOMC cartridges. With your cartridge having such a low output you would benefit from an extra 10dB or so, so having 49dB in the phonostage is beneficial. It might not be so beneficial if you get a higher output LOMC cartridge in future though.
    Tubes are inherently noisy, more so than transistors. A good tube phonostage with a suitable step-up transformer can have a good signal-to-noise ratio, but it's not true to say tubes are quieter than transistors, and certainly not true to say tubes don't hiss.
    The hiss you have at present is due to the cartridge putting out such a low signal. A step-up transformer is the way to go to reduce the hiss.
     
  16. Wildcat

    Wildcat Audio Sommelier Subscriber

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    I know--that didn't sound right to me either. ;) My tube components here have the same hiss levels as anything solid state I ever had in the system.

    But I definitely agree--the SUT is really what I need, whether it's outboard or built into the phono stage.
     

     

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  17. mjw21a

    mjw21a Super Member

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    The Hashimoto HM-3 would be ideal for any ultra low output cart though I have confirmed feedback issues with my 0.5mv ART9. It simply wasn't useable.

    That said I own a pair of Cinemag Blue 1254 SUT (better than the red) and frankly the HM-3 significantly betters it. It brings that quality of feeling like you're actually there at the performance where the Cinemag while detailed and airy still sounds like a recording. It's simply not in the same league. The 1254 is the replacement for the previous 1154.

    That said I also prefer my Fidelity Research FRT-4 to the Cinemag. It just sounds more real. The Hashimoto is a few notches above that also. It is quite sensitive to RF interference though.

    Frankly the information regarding resistors is rubbish. A poorly designed and built resistor based stage may have white noise though my experience so far is that a solid state phono stage will typically have more clean gain than tubed. Every tube stage I've tried has been significantly noisier with the best being the Douk Tube Phonobox (EAR 834P). A tube stage can sound more real than most solid state phonos though I've found that solid state can have the same holographic imaging as tube. Easily the best I've tried is the Valab LCR-1 which has variable gain from 40-72db. I find best results are achieved using a SUT and the gain on 40db

    If you'd like to have a listen to some rips done with my ART9 > Fidelity Research FRT-4 SUT > Valab LCR-1 then I'd be happy to provide access to my NAS. I've a few samples up under Rips > Matt > Unprocessed. I'll be redoing them once I have my HM-7

    Agree 100%.... I think you've said it better than I've managed too
     
  18. mkane

    mkane AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    I have 2 Tube phono stages and they're both quiet as a graveyard.
     
  19. Wildcat

    Wildcat Audio Sommelier Subscriber

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    OK, I'm at the "seriously looking at SUTs" phase right now, and it's like a Cinemag vs. Lundahl vs. Hashimoto moment here along with trying to figure out which ratios I should be looking at. Phono stage has 49dB gain. Two carts--one is 0.28mV, the other (my daily driver for now) is 0.12mV. I'll probably go DIY for a few reasons, mainly so I can configure the case the way I want it. But there are a couple of Lundahl kits that look attractive, and available in two different levels with better transformers.
     
  20. mjw21a

    mjw21a Super Member

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    I've not tried Lundahl, though I can tell you that the Hashimoto's are significantly better to my ears than the Cinemag 1254. That said the Cinemag is somewhat more flexible and can be configured with 3x gain levels rather than the two of the Hashimoto. That said I've never enjoyed the sound signature of the Cinemags and find a quality MC head amp to sound similar. It might fair better with a tubed phono stage though I now only run solid state stages (quieter, blacker background).

    I've both the HM-3 and HM-7 and can say that I now understand why the HM-7 commands a higher price. The HM-3 is nice and a little better than my Fidelity Research FRT-4 though quite a bit less flexible (2x gain levels vs 4x). The HM-7 on the other hand has the widest and deepest sound stage I've ever heard extending well beyond the speakers and tricks me into thinking I'm actually at a live performance. While my Valab LCR has variable gain from 40 to 70db, nothing gets you closer to the performance than using a quality SUT with the phono stage set to 40db.
     

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