Kr-9600 ta-200w

Discussion in 'Solid State' started by zebradog, Jan 8, 2009.

  1. zebradog

    zebradog New Member

    I know this has been asked before at one time or another, and I've searched this forum, but there are too many responses to sift through.

    I'm looking for a couple TA-200W chips, one if nothing else. I've got one of these that was passed down to me, so to speak, and it blew a channel. I'm pretty sure its this chip since it seems to e one of the weak links, but I don't schematics either so I haven't really troubleshot it either.

    Any help, advice or information would be greatly appreciated. I know someone here has been down this road before, and I'd rather not reinvent the wheel if I don't have to.
  2. Blue Shadow

    Blue Shadow Swapping Gear Subscriber

  3. zebradog

    zebradog New Member

    Thank's for the response Blue, but that is the Vintage Solid State Guidelines section, unless I've said something that breaks those rules...or maybe I'm too retarded to figure out what you were referring to in number 5, both are possible. :lol:
  4. zebradog

    zebradog New Member

    LOL! OK nevermind, it's been a long day sorry....number 5...gotcha!:thmbsp: So I was correct about being too much of a retard to read between the lines; my appoligies to all offended.

    I'm used to using other forums where people don't really give a crap where your from, who you are or anything else, they just answer questions.

    I'm JD, I live in Vancouver WA, I'm a MRI engineer. My dad has been in many bands and is all about the sound of all music. His brother bought this reciever in the late '70s I think and it was the best money could buy; from what I'm told. He always had to have the best, whether or not he used it...LOL!

    Time went on and I was living in Nevada, he asked me if I wanted some Hi-Fi stereo equipment, and I said sure. So I get this thing and think..."hi-Fi? WTF?" I store it in my closet for a while until I reloacted to WA. Once I was there, I started to get my home machine shop together and needed some tunes. I brought this monstrosity out, plugged it in and found out what it really does. WOW! Nice stuff. I took it apart and checked it out inside and out (I've got and Electronics Degree) and this thing is amazing! Such craftsmanship back then. I work on a lot of stuff now and it's all just thrown together. This thing was assembled by hand.

    Anyway, recently one of the channels has blown, it crackles and works sometime and not others, so....I finally got fed up last night and started searching for common failures online, found the TA-200W was a pretty common failure, and found this place. It's really similar to another forum I'm a member of.

    Me personally, I'm an Engineer, I've been restoring cars/hot rods since I was six. I have a home mahine shop that I run on the side for fun and a little extra money. I'm married, 2 kids, hot wife, play Xbox 360 online, ride ATVs and make a lot of custom billit parts for them.

    That about sums it up, as I said, sorry for the "using" people on here, I didn't really expect anyone to care; and I didn't read the guidelines...LOL! I get focused on the task at hand and set out to complete it, and along the way, i ignore everything else around me; or so my wife tells me...LOL!

    As said before, I'm not looking for a free set of schematics, or free parts, just some help to save this reciever from being dead. If someone needs custom machine work, let me know I'll be glad to help out there too.
  5. EchoWars

    EchoWars Working a Deal in Denmark Subscriber

    Your full intro should go in the 'Introductions' forum, but it is welcome nonetheless.

    There are many failure modes for those output IC's, but if you're getting sound out of it sometimes, then chances are the issue you are experiancing has nothing to do with the module itself. Most vintage pieces from the mid to late 70's and on into the 80's (and much modern gear as well) have a dedicated protection circuit that monitors both channels for issues. If a problem is detected, both channels are shut down. Yes, there are things that can go wrong with the module that will not trigger the protection circuit, but the odds are heavily in favor of your problem being one of dirty pots and switches impeding the signal (or a flaky speaker output relay...the 9600 has one for each channel).

    The TA-200W IC is fairly unobtanium. Sources are pretty limited, such as another 9600 which is being parted out.

    You can eliminate the 'dirty pots and switches' part of the troubleshooting process by removing the 'preamp-out/main-in' jumpers and feeding the 'main-in' with a volume-controlled signal as a test (volume controlled, or else you'll blow out your ears, the amp, your speakers, or all three).

    The 9600 is not too forgiving of errors, due to the rarity of the output devices and it's overall complexity. If a general cleanup doesn't take care of it, and you determine that the amp section is indeed the problem (unlikely, from your description, but possible), I'd consider having a professional look at it. If the pro balks at the unavailability of the output devices, look elsewhere or contact me.

    If you're looking for a manual, consider these guys:
  6. Ausjoe

    Ausjoe Super Member

    Welcome zebradog and don't be a stranger. Echowars would be a superb choice for a repair. Try some deoxit on the pots/switches first. Even if it doesn't solve the problem they probably need cleaning. Use sparingly and let dry. Good luck!
  7. zebradog

    zebradog New Member

    I blew the thing out with compressed air and it started working again, and I thought it might have fixed it. The next night, the left channel stopped working again. I left it running on one chanel for some background noise while I machined some parts, but every now and then it crackled really loud and then it would shut off. Once it came back on fully normal, then shut off again. I've got an Oscilliscope and a Fluke 87 meter, so I can do a fair amount of troubleshooting, but I guess I need a schematic to really go farther. The only ones I have seen were $50 and that seemed like a lot to spend on a diagram.

    Those relays you are talking about, are they almost right in the middle, as you look down on top of the amp with the case off? Square, black, look like hermatic relays, right next to another set of transisters mounted on big heat sinks? I don't know if you know this system that well, but I thought I'd ask. I saw them there, but had no idea what they did. Hermatic relays are notorius for going bad.

    When you mention pots, which pots and where are they? On the main board next to the relays I'm talking about?

    One last thing I forgot about; there's a few bulbs blow on this thing, and they are soldered and blank, no ratings. Does anyone have a suggestion on a replacement bulb or a place where you can get the parts to solder back in?

    Lastly, I'll repost the majority of my introduction in the appropriate section. Like I said, I'm part of a few forums and they are all right to the point. Most people are so competitive and trash talking that it ends up being a very introverted experience.

    Thanks for your help
  8. zebradog

    zebradog New Member

    Where do you get it from?
  9. EchoWars

    EchoWars Working a Deal in Denmark Subscriber

    Parts Express, an AK sponsor (link at the bottom of the page, with all the other banner ads).

    As a test, you need to run the receiver from another volume controlled source. If you can't find one, just pull the jumpers out (power off first!) and see if the noise and grunge continues.

    I'm not aware of any manual resellers asking $50 for a 9600 manual. The links I sent are from two of the best guys in the business, and I don't think either one will ask for that much. But the guys who sell vintage manuals keep this hobby alive, and whatever they ask for a manual is a bargain as far as I'm concerned.

    I've worked on many 9600's (and have two of them right here), but I can't seem to recall whether the relay board is on top or the bottom. Age. It'll get you too.

    Your saying that the relays kick out (protection tripping) from time to time is not a good sign, but not fatal. But, if the module is not bad, these DC pulses causing the protect to activate can make it bad, and your problem will go from annoying to disastrous.
  10. dr*audio

    dr*audio Fish fingers and custard! Subscriber

    I believe this receiver has separate power supplies for each channel. Bad solder joints on one of the regulator transistors would take out one of the supplies, and cause a loud pop, and the protection would kick in. Get the manual, and start checking the supply voltages with no speakers connected. Further hint: apply some electrical tape to your meter probe so that only the very tip is exposed. That will help keep you from shorting things together and blowing things up, if you slip with the probe. You might want to look at the supplies with a scope. If there is a bad solder joint somewhere, or an intermittent transistor, it may show up as a very noisy supply.
    The service manual is only $16.00 here:
    Their copies are very good.:thmbsp:
  11. zebradog

    zebradog New Member

    Every time I shut the thing off it pops out of the speakers. When you say run it from another volume controlled source, can I plug in an ipod into the jacks and control the volume from there or do I need another reciever to do that?

    I'll hit those other guys up for a set of schematics.

    i've also got a set of custom made dental needles for DMM probes covered with about 5/16" in shrink wrap. Oh yah, I've shorted out som poer supplies before, not fun. LOL! Thanks a lot for the help.

    Here's the only place I found the schematics and the price.
  12. zebradog

    zebradog New Member

    Does the service manual you are talking about have schematics or is it just a service manual? Will it walk me through troubleshooting?
  13. LBPete

    LBPete Rolling Along Subscriber

    These service manuals are written for professionals. They may have a basic trouble tree but not much more. They will have detailed schematics, parts lists, board layout diagrams, alignment and adjustment procedures. All good useful information. Often all that is needed is a good thorough cleaning of the controls. Get a Caig product called deoxit 5 and have at it.

    - Pete
  14. zebradog

    zebradog New Member

    Great thanks.
  15. EchoWars

    EchoWars Working a Deal in Denmark Subscriber

    The 9600 uses the front panel indicator lights (Phono, Aux, Tuner, etc...) to draw off the cap charge on the speaker relay circuit. If you have a lamp burnt out, such as the Tuner, and power down with 'Tuner' selected, you'll get a turn-off thump because the lamp isn't there to drain the charge quickly enough.
    I don't own one of them things, so I can't say for sure, but I'd think that as long as you have full control of the output level you certainly should not cause any damage.
  16. Blue Shadow

    Blue Shadow Swapping Gear Subscriber

    Z, the manual-in-pdf is BAD. search and find out why it is recommended to use the vendors mentioned by the Techs that help us fix stuff instead of the one you found.

    The power amp input on this receiver has NO VOLUME Control. So if you plug something into it, it will amplify that signal uniformly. The volume control is part of the preamp section as all the other controls on the front panel except the speaker selector. So you need a full control as EW mentioned. If the ipod volume goes to no output at all and can be slowly increased, you might be able to use that plugged into the power amp inputs on the back of the Kenny.

    The pots the folks are talking about are discussed in the link I sent by pm. They are all the controls on the front panel. The signal goes through the volume, balance, bass and treble controls as well as switches and such and cleaning those items with Deoxit is a necessary service for these older units to clean out the dirt, dust and gunk that prevents the signal for moving easily through the unit.

    If you are not comfortable with all of this, take the unit to a tech as it sounds to me like a nice 50,000 mile tune-up is all it needs to be put back in working order.
  17. SDA SRS 1.2

    SDA SRS 1.2 Well-Known Member

    Good luck with your 9600! It is one fine unit that is worth the effort to get it working 100%. :)
  18. zebradog

    zebradog New Member

    Yah, it's a Zune, similar to an Ipod. It has a fully controlled output, but to be safe I'm going to attach some crappy speakers to it before I blow these Infinities.

    I guess that coule be shy the thing pops, there are a few burned out bulds, like the signal strencth, signal deviation, tuner and a couple others. Anyone have any idea about replacing them? I called a Kenwood parts place and they laughed at me :sigh:

    There's no way in hell I was going to download a manual for $50, that's ridiculous. Besides, if there are sponsors and venders that support a community, I'd rather they get my money than a place like that. It was posted earlier that they have schematics in the book that was recomended, so I'll download that, I'm going to get a kit of the DeOxit today and follow that link you forwarded me on a full tune up. I'd be willing to invest a healthy sum of money in this just for the personal value it has to me.

    Thanks everyone for your help, and any suggestions on the bulbs would be greatly appreciated.
  19. Blue Shadow

    Blue Shadow Swapping Gear Subscriber

    Maybe I should have said that Manual in pdf just takes money and delivers nothing. A scam from Poland, but sometimes folks do receive a poor copy of a schematic when they think they are buying the full SM. They take money and if they have something, will supply it but if they don't, they keep the money and look for something.
  20. zebradog

    zebradog New Member

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