Magnavox Flea Power: Getting More Out Of The 8600 Series - A Lot More!

I've decided this will be my next project. My experience is only with a a 6v6 PP .. built 3 times. Once for me...the others for my two sons.

Your creativity has inspired a lot of people by the looks of the thread. It certainly has inspired me.

It'll be a scratch build.

I really like the antek transformer listed early in the thread. Partly due to the low cost but mostly to accommodate some chassis ideas I have.

I am thinking that, plus SS rectification will force me out of my comfort zone and model a power supply. As soon as I get a scope on my bench.

Can anyone comment if this is a good avenue to pursue?
 
"73s".!!! Haven't heard that one since I sold off all my old 2-way stuff with the invention of the cell phone...........lol

Superflea: I'd love to see you pursue this in the way you've described!! One comment I would make would be that given Dave's design here is a true 'Class A' circuit, I would think that as long as your power supply modeling is based on the ability to support the constant 100ma of current at the prescribed voltages, I would think you'd be fine!! I'm no expert on any of this....but I tend to be a bit more 'conservative' than a lot of folks......so with 100ma of current being used, I generally like the idea of having about a 25 to 30% margin ability in the PS. Hence my use of the Hammond PT which supports 144 ma of DC Rectified constant current. If the amp only needs 100ma to run, then at 144ma, I'm in my 'comfort zone'.......lol My only beef with SS rectification is a strictly personal preference for some kind of 'slow-start' to the tubes. This is why I go for the 5AR4 Rectifier vs anything else. A 5U4 would be a much better fit in my builds from 'voltage reduction' perspective. I end up having to use a dropping resistor......which still works well....and some times 'trade offs' are a necessary. Guess this is just one of 'em! Last comment here is that I've been wondering if someone would address this build but attempt a 6v6 version? I've discussed it with some folks in the past but got talked out of it! I know it changes things some....but still, I'd like to try it myself some time. Maybe you can pave the way............

Anyway, Mr Aqua.....glad you worked out all your details!!

73s!!

Tom D.
 
Yeah that toroidal will do 200ma.

I'm thinking separate toggle for filaments and maybe a thermistor on the HV. I will have to research that. Even my crude attempt modeling this power supply showed a surge with a vacuum tube rectifier.

I don't have the experience to have a general feel but a 6v6 is very similar? From what I read they get swapped in and out of designs a lot. Some folks do say that the el84 does sound better in direct comparison. Thanks!
 
As I understand it, while the 6V6 and EL84 do get swapped around in a lot of amps, there are some specific differences with regard to characteristics at certain voltage levels. I think the basic circuit as designed by Dave would work if using a 6V6, but I think there are some needed changes in both plate voltage and screen voltage that would apply to use of a 6V6 vs the EL84 if kept at an optimum Class A mid-point operation. Remember that Dave designed this circuit with consideration to the original Magnavox 8600 PS supply capabilities. So, if a different transformer is used, and different voltages are a possibility, then I guess this might become somewhat of a 'different' amp? Kind of akin to the question some times tossed around of: When is a Maggie no longer a Maggie? If you take an 88-- or 93-- series amp and change output transformers, driver design, power supply, etc.....is it still a 'Magnavox', or did a line get crossed where it's now just a 'custom' amp? I dunno.....but I think the same philosophy might apply in making changes to Mr. Gillespie's modified 8600 circuit. I rather think of this as just Dave's amp! Hence the DG-SE1 tag I offered up early on. But, regardless...... it's a great little design......and I think all the iterations and 'versions' I've seen are just a testament to it's versatility and flexibility..... not to mention 'functionality'!!
 
Dave,

I'm now in process of doing yet another Transcendar OT build of your circuit. This one is being built with the 10 watt versions; the TT-338-OT, which have both UL capability, and 4,8, and 16 ohm secondaries. So, to get to the point, what I'm wondering is this: In using the P-T31, you have the B+ at 265, which yields a Plate voltage of 255. This is also the Screen Voltage designated at Pin 9, and a function of the 820 ohm dropping resistor. I don't recall exactly what the DC resistance of the P-T31 OT is stated to be, but the Transcendar is substantially more!!! If memory serves me correctly, the P-T31 is something like 160 ohms, where this Transcendar is like 410 ohms!!! So....what I'm experiencing is a deviation in the plate voltage when using a 265 B+ level 'to' the OT. With 265 B+, I still get the designated 255 at the Screens and to the driver stage....but my plate voltage drops to about 245 or there about. So, my question is this: In attempting to keep this thing basically as close to your original design specs as I can, would it be appropriate to attempt to raise the B+ some.....to what ever is needed to get to 255VDC at the plate, and then adjust the 820 ohm dropping resistor accordingly so as to provide the same 255 to the screens and on to the driver stage? I should mention that I'm using that Hammond 270EX power transformer w/ a 5AR4 Rectifier.....and to get to the 265VDC B+ I was using about 700 ohms of 'dropping' resistance 'pre' choke stage (right off the rectifier socket with a 10uf / 500V filter cap). As such, I've got PLENTY of room to drop that primary resistor value some..and perhaps at about 600 ohms I might see maybe 275 VDC B+....which might produce 255 on the Plate. I might have to adjust the secondary dropping resistor from 820 ohms to 1K.....but in attempting to dial it all in like this, would the goal be to keep the tube operating as you have it set up (255 on plate and screen).....and still use a 'bias' of 49ma in that side of things? Your sage advice is desperately needed, with (as usual) much appreciation!!

Thanks Dave! Tom
 
Absolutely the right way to go, although I seem to remember the DC resistance of the P-T31 transformer being closer to about 225Ω (or so), so you may not need to adjust the 820Ω screen dropping resistor quite as much as you might be thinking....... a value of about 1.5K should be about right......

Dave
 
Thank you Sir! I'll post an update as soon as I wrap it up, and a couple pics as well. These OTs are BIG!.....about the same size as those on a Scott 222C! Will be interesting to see how this works in the end. Again, thanks for the help Dave!!

Tom
 
Thanks to Jack for his willingness to 'experiment' with this build! Not being a 'tested' version, and with the costs involved to acquire those massive output transformers from Transcendar, there was a bit of a 'risk' involved, not just 'damage', but that sonic performance might be compromised as well. That said......the amp turned out beautifully!! Once again, the circuit Mr. Gillespie has designed worked wonderfully well, and making the transition to these alternative output transformers wasn't as difficult as it could have been. I might add a word of praise to the Transcendar folks for a great product as well. Not my first go-round with them and their stuff......and I've been 'completely satisfied' every time!!! Anyway, as per the few posts above, there was a bit of an issue in getting the proper voltages lined up. Due to the increase in DC resistance of these new transformers, the 'supply' voltage going 'to' them had to be increased. In the end, the Power Supply first stage dropping resistor ended up being about 550 ohms, which provided a B+ of about 275 VDC to the OTs. I used two 10 watt resistors to get to this resistance level, measured my voltage drop, and I think there's less than 2 watts per resistor of power being dissipated. This 175 'in' to the OTs resulted in a plate voltage of 255 VDC....right on spec! However, the increase in B+ also resulted in an increase of the B+1.....which was previously 'adjusted' in Dave's circuit by the 820 ohm resistor. To get this back to the proper 255 VDC a resistor value of 1.5K was used. And, again, 255 V...right on spec. The only other thing worth mentioning is that in using these OTs, the leads available included a 'non-used' Ultra Linear tap on the primary side, and 4, 8, and 16 ohm taps on the secondary side. If you note the pic above you'll see that there are 2 'red' speaker terminals for each channel. Jack had wanted 16 ohm outputs in keeping with some of his 'vintage' speaker selections. So, the 8 ohm tap was used in the circuit, including the feedback section, and the 16 ohm taps were used as secondary speaker connections on the back. This could have just as easily been the 4 and 8 ohm taps.....again with the 8 ohm taps following the schematic. In this case, the un-used 4 ohm taps were simply covered over with shrink wrap under the amp. Likewise with the UL taps. Care taken to assure not 'shorts' could occur ….ever!!! Beyond that, the new tubes supplied by Jack worked beautifully, all of which were JJ brand! I was quite impressed overall with how this whole project turned out. Again, thanks to Dave for the Circuit....and to Jack for the chance to build the amp for him!!! Jack, if you are so inclined, you might consider posting a pic of the underside so as to show some of the details of the wiring and layout.

Tom D.
 
Hey Le, Ya know, this is a REALLY hard question to answer! I say this because 'testing' may prove that any 'listening' comments are not 'factual'. But, that said, I think the best comment I can make is to say that when Jack came to pick this amp up from my home, we had it 'in line' in my shop. We played several different 'cuts' from some CDs I had there.....and in the end I turned to Jack and simply stated that I believed this to be the best one yet!! To me, it seemed to play just a bit 'louder' without break-up, had some 'deeper' and more commanding bass....less 'floppy'..... and yet had all the mid-range drive and high-end clarity that any previous amp had. So, my 'impression' is that it made a difference.....for the better. However, again, I stress that 'testing' might actually reveal some detriments in performance....though if so, I simply didn't hear them. Is it a 'worthy' investment to buy these OTs over either the lessor Transcendar or the Edcor versions? I'd say so....providing your budget can stand another $100 or so. I don't recall just what the cost of the 7 Watt Transcendar OTs were, but I believe these 2 came to about $225 or so including shipping. I bought a pair for myself at the same time I purchased the set for Jack's amp, and I seem to recall the total cost was about $450 or so. So, if you compare $225 to the cost of the Edcors, which come to slightly less than $100 including shipping.....well........just how much is the extra $125 going to affect your life? If you can afford it, then you're getting 'the best' set of OTs I know of. To me, that's worth it!! On the other hand, the P-T31s are about $40 a pair 'shipped'..... so.... big difference in price between these and the Transcendars. But, you get what you pay for....and these are definitely some 'quality' pieces!!

Tom
 
CALL FOR HELP!!! As this may not be the totally proper place for this posting, I'll beg forgiveness in advance, but I believe this thread may be the best place for the results I'm looking for. With all the 're-building' of the 8600s that this thread of Dave's has spurred on, I'm hopeful that someone may have an old 8600 'original' output transformer sitting around collecting dust. I'm in need of 5K PI / 4 ohm secondary output transformer for a project I'm building. I believe an old 8600 OT would work and sadly I've parted with all the old ones I had. I'm building a little SE Guitar amp and I need the 4 ohm output. Any help would be greatly appreciated. PM me. Many Thanks, and Happy Holidays!!

Tom D.
 
Not sure what Transcendar's deal is by not having an email or 'order' info posted on the web site. But, for those interested, please PM me and I will attempt to act as 'broker'. I am pretty well acquainted with the owner, and though this get's me no special consideration..... it does at least give me contact to the establishment, and perhaps allows me to 'order' where others are currently blocked. For anyone interested, let me know and I'll see what I can do.

Mike587, I saw that OT.....about $30 plus another $10 shipping? If I can't find an old Maggie unit with a more advantageous price, then that's how I'll probably end up going. One advantage of that OT is that it has 4, 8, and 16 ohm secondary taps!! I like that! May be worth it in the end. But, as most of my projects are on shoestring budgets..... I'll give the inquiry a bit of time to see if it bears fruit. Thanks for the tip though!!


Tom D.
 
Wharf, I have a stock 196 in the wings. If that will work for you, be happy to help. Just like the one in the pics.

SAM_0621.JPG SAM_0622.JPG
 
I just finished modding my 9601. I plays OK, but the PS voltages are low.
270V measures 248
265V measures 240
245V measures 214
Is this too low?
 
Maybe you have the same power transformer as I have Check post #694
The resistor was incorrect, I misread the ohm symbol for a 0, so that's one problem solved, but my unit draws .55 amps at 122v and the B+ is 260v, 255 after the choke, cathodes on the outputs are 5.8v cathodes on the 12AX7 are 1.3v, screens measure 235,the rectifier tests good. I have been over the unit several times, and I don't see any mistakes, it sounds good!
View attachment 1138469 View attachment 1138470 View attachment 1138472 View attachment 1138473
 
I used the first schematic posted by Dave. I need to change the 1.5K resistor to 820 ohm. Thanks to your link I found the error.
My power transformer is dipped in black tar.
6201 PT.jpg
 
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