Marantz 2500 restore
- Thread starter blhagstrom
- Start date
KutzlerTrans
Jennie & I with Buddy and Barney.
An all around bad situation for everyone. There are always them few that just become more than meets the eye and need to be retired..
I look at them jobs like the drunkin drivin tickets i never got, but should have, and then everything starts looking better.
I look at them jobs like the drunkin drivin tickets i never got, but should have, and then everything starts looking better.
blhagstrom
Mad Scientist, fixer.
Well, you exposed yourself.
NOW what little he paid me is being disputed on Paypal.
Bad juju here.
NOW what little he paid me is being disputed on Paypal.
Bad juju here.
Here's a possibility, the transformer could have an intermittent problem like a loose internal connection. That could explain the pop heard by the owner and the unit going dead. The shipping could have made the connection work briefly for Blaine and then moving the unit break the connection again. It's possible.
He did apologize for that finding and did do work that others wouldn't have to do later, restoring the power supply. That board happens to have a lot of expensive caps on it. I know as I've restored a 2500 and a 2600. The time it was going to take on the transformer is due to the fact that he did research on having one designed and made new. I and others pitched in a considerable sum of cash on the engineering charge for which you would have been the first to benefit from had you had the patience to ask what was going on and wait.
I stand by what I said.
P.S. Not very nice of you to put swear words in his mouth - the thinly disguised f-bombs.
He did apologize for that finding and did do work that others wouldn't have to do later, restoring the power supply. That board happens to have a lot of expensive caps on it. I know as I've restored a 2500 and a 2600. The time it was going to take on the transformer is due to the fact that he did research on having one designed and made new. I and others pitched in a considerable sum of cash on the engineering charge for which you would have been the first to benefit from had you had the patience to ask what was going on and wait.
I stand by what I said.
P.S. Not very nice of you to put swear words in his mouth - the thinly disguised f-bombs.
Hipocrates
Super Member
Happens all the time, high maintenance, suspicious and impatient customer who doesn't have a clue what is to deal with vintage complex units.
You should stop this madness, forget about buy neglected units to restore and buy restored ones.
You should stop this madness, forget about buy neglected units to restore and buy restored ones.
KutzlerTrans
Jennie & I with Buddy and Barney.
Its hard not to show emotion when time is being wasted. Even if he Had Swore, it was in frustration, from what i can read here.
As far as the transformer goes, I can second Blaines drive to actively design and form a team for the manufacturing of a better transformer, and this process is in the manufacturing stage as we speak.
When stuff like this happens, It has to be a bitch for both sides. Taking anger out on each other is not going to get it fixed. Sometimes things are said that come out wrong and Blaine has a colorful style to his responses and it could be taken the wrong way.
Nobody likes to be told they are wrong. I just don't think $150 is unfair for the time he spent and I charge $60 an hour, so i would be sure he lost his butt on it and its only fair that he gets paid for his time. Sometimes things need to sit for a while until its time comes.
This is one of them jobs. I am sorry for this situation because it gives AK a black eye.
If i was the next guy to work on this unit, the handshake trust that we all would like to think still exists, would be replaced with a whole lot of paperwork, estimates and signatures to protect myself against this type of knee-jerk slander. It just makes the world a colder place.
As far as the transformer goes, I can second Blaines drive to actively design and form a team for the manufacturing of a better transformer, and this process is in the manufacturing stage as we speak.
When stuff like this happens, It has to be a bitch for both sides. Taking anger out on each other is not going to get it fixed. Sometimes things are said that come out wrong and Blaine has a colorful style to his responses and it could be taken the wrong way.
Nobody likes to be told they are wrong. I just don't think $150 is unfair for the time he spent and I charge $60 an hour, so i would be sure he lost his butt on it and its only fair that he gets paid for his time. Sometimes things need to sit for a while until its time comes.
This is one of them jobs. I am sorry for this situation because it gives AK a black eye.
If i was the next guy to work on this unit, the handshake trust that we all would like to think still exists, would be replaced with a whole lot of paperwork, estimates and signatures to protect myself against this type of knee-jerk slander. It just makes the world a colder place.
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blhagstrom
Mad Scientist, fixer.
Serge and this 2500 are a lost cause.
This unit is cursed.
It is tainted with evil, damned and stained with bad blood.
I sensed it the minute I saw it and touched it.
It has sucked Serge and his money, his mind and his soul into its evil grip
It was buried and hidden and left in the dark and has resurfaced and caused nothing but chaos and pain since it came out from the shadows.
I am reminded of the book and movie "Christine".
To salvage anything from this.
To test a transformer on a 2500, you need to disassemble the unit quite a bit.
That means opening the unit, unhooking many wires, loosening the back of the chassis, removing the power supply, removing the sub chassis, disconnecting all the wiring on the sub chassis to finally isolate the transformer and then it can be tested. That work alone is worth what I asked for.
Doing all that is lot of work that hopefully does not lead to a dead transformer. The trail into that point does include testing other possible causes along the way. Making tests and repairs along the way towards a happy ending is not exactly a dumb thing. The story of "it worked, then popped and quit" along with the fact that the fan will run, even with a dead transformer, can be misleading.
Doing some damage control on delicate parts (the tuning dial and string) is not a dumb thing. I was not concerned about getting the dial and string finished or even correct since parts are still missing and they may need to come apart later anyway to continue the restore. A point completely missed by Serge since he knows nothing about restoring electronics and that pretty much invalidates all his arguments about any work actually done or not done.
To be cancelled at the point of "transformer out" and get all the parts gathered back up and off the work bench and packed off to the next location, it is best to put it all back together enough to keep things in some sort of reasonable continuation point. A fair amount of work just to do that. Reconnecting any wires is stupid. To repair it, everything needs to be unhooked anyway and any competent repair person will know how to reconnect. Serge would not know any of this since he knows nothing about repairing or restoring electronics.
Throw in the hassle of unpacking and repacking and hauling that box to the ship point, and all the time spent trying to locate parts, inspect the unit, test other possible problems, do some damage control due to the dial and tuning string condition and you are talking about a fair amount of time and skill. More things Serge knows nothing about.
Since eventually this unit could be salvaged and the original intent was a total rebuild and a possible dead short may be the amp, pulling the amp and testing it and rebuilding it anyway seems logical and a move in the right direction. Something else Serge doesn't know.
Shipping it by FedEx in a FedEx package that was created by FedEx seems like a good move. They would have a difficult time arguing with a damage claim. It is their packing.
Reasoning that a miracle cannot be performed in a short amount of time cheaply is madness.
Reasoning that a complete miracle was not performed therefore no payment at all should be made, is insanity.
Since Serge has employed this reasoning, it is only logical to conclude that he is insane. Q.E.D.
Now, anyone that finds flaw in my technique or action at this point is welcome to that and please do not call me or ask for help or work.
The true pity here is that Serge got lost in the desire and dream of owning a great piece of vintage audio gear and happened to get hooked by this wreck.
His desire for possession has possessed him and taken over all reason. It has cost him his honor, integrity, sanity and his soul, if he had any.
No matter what happens, he can never be able to look upon this unit and have the clear clean pride of ownership joy.
This whole matter will forever stain its appeal and presence.
The pain of the experience along with his actions and attitude during this whole nightmare will forever haunt the pleasure of using the unit.
Even if he rids himself of it, the lingering memory of what is done at this time will haunt him to the grave.
If he prevails on Paypal and collects back his payment to me, he will possess stolen property in the end.
He has alienated people and suffers in the delusion of a victim situation where he is flailing wildly at anything and everybody within reach.
He is asking like a drowning man in a panic. Trying to save him will kill you.
Two rules I have heard.
If you fall into quick sand, stop struggling so you can float. Otherwise you sink and drown.
When you find yourself in a hole, stop digging.
Wise words that he will not heed.
I do not bear Serge any malice. He has been very irritating and insulting, but I pity him.
I apologize if my frustration came through improperly.
He is on a doomed path, a highway to Hell from which he is incapable of escaping at this point, if ever.
If the money is returned to him by Paypal, I will accept it as riddance of all the evil and damnation associated with this matter from my life.
Learn from this.
Do not be Serge.
A hobby like vintage audio is like life in general and has some traps.
Units may fail, repairs may fail, some things cannot be repaired cheaply, easily or at all.
People may not be reasonable nor sane and helping them may be a poor choice, but trying anyway will bring good karma.
If you want to stand with the big boys, you should have the ability to do so with grace, honor, integrity and humility.
There are none so blind as those that will not see.
There are none so lost as those that will not learn.
A very odd side effect of this is occurring for which I am honored and pleased and humbled.
But that is a private matter among friends for now.
This unit is cursed.
It is tainted with evil, damned and stained with bad blood.
I sensed it the minute I saw it and touched it.
It has sucked Serge and his money, his mind and his soul into its evil grip
It was buried and hidden and left in the dark and has resurfaced and caused nothing but chaos and pain since it came out from the shadows.
I am reminded of the book and movie "Christine".
To salvage anything from this.
To test a transformer on a 2500, you need to disassemble the unit quite a bit.
That means opening the unit, unhooking many wires, loosening the back of the chassis, removing the power supply, removing the sub chassis, disconnecting all the wiring on the sub chassis to finally isolate the transformer and then it can be tested. That work alone is worth what I asked for.
Doing all that is lot of work that hopefully does not lead to a dead transformer. The trail into that point does include testing other possible causes along the way. Making tests and repairs along the way towards a happy ending is not exactly a dumb thing. The story of "it worked, then popped and quit" along with the fact that the fan will run, even with a dead transformer, can be misleading.
Doing some damage control on delicate parts (the tuning dial and string) is not a dumb thing. I was not concerned about getting the dial and string finished or even correct since parts are still missing and they may need to come apart later anyway to continue the restore. A point completely missed by Serge since he knows nothing about restoring electronics and that pretty much invalidates all his arguments about any work actually done or not done.
To be cancelled at the point of "transformer out" and get all the parts gathered back up and off the work bench and packed off to the next location, it is best to put it all back together enough to keep things in some sort of reasonable continuation point. A fair amount of work just to do that. Reconnecting any wires is stupid. To repair it, everything needs to be unhooked anyway and any competent repair person will know how to reconnect. Serge would not know any of this since he knows nothing about repairing or restoring electronics.
Throw in the hassle of unpacking and repacking and hauling that box to the ship point, and all the time spent trying to locate parts, inspect the unit, test other possible problems, do some damage control due to the dial and tuning string condition and you are talking about a fair amount of time and skill. More things Serge knows nothing about.
Since eventually this unit could be salvaged and the original intent was a total rebuild and a possible dead short may be the amp, pulling the amp and testing it and rebuilding it anyway seems logical and a move in the right direction. Something else Serge doesn't know.
Shipping it by FedEx in a FedEx package that was created by FedEx seems like a good move. They would have a difficult time arguing with a damage claim. It is their packing.
Reasoning that a miracle cannot be performed in a short amount of time cheaply is madness.
Reasoning that a complete miracle was not performed therefore no payment at all should be made, is insanity.
Since Serge has employed this reasoning, it is only logical to conclude that he is insane. Q.E.D.
Now, anyone that finds flaw in my technique or action at this point is welcome to that and please do not call me or ask for help or work.
The true pity here is that Serge got lost in the desire and dream of owning a great piece of vintage audio gear and happened to get hooked by this wreck.
His desire for possession has possessed him and taken over all reason. It has cost him his honor, integrity, sanity and his soul, if he had any.
No matter what happens, he can never be able to look upon this unit and have the clear clean pride of ownership joy.
This whole matter will forever stain its appeal and presence.
The pain of the experience along with his actions and attitude during this whole nightmare will forever haunt the pleasure of using the unit.
Even if he rids himself of it, the lingering memory of what is done at this time will haunt him to the grave.
If he prevails on Paypal and collects back his payment to me, he will possess stolen property in the end.
He has alienated people and suffers in the delusion of a victim situation where he is flailing wildly at anything and everybody within reach.
He is asking like a drowning man in a panic. Trying to save him will kill you.
Two rules I have heard.
If you fall into quick sand, stop struggling so you can float. Otherwise you sink and drown.
When you find yourself in a hole, stop digging.
Wise words that he will not heed.
I do not bear Serge any malice. He has been very irritating and insulting, but I pity him.
I apologize if my frustration came through improperly.
He is on a doomed path, a highway to Hell from which he is incapable of escaping at this point, if ever.
If the money is returned to him by Paypal, I will accept it as riddance of all the evil and damnation associated with this matter from my life.
Learn from this.
Do not be Serge.
A hobby like vintage audio is like life in general and has some traps.
Units may fail, repairs may fail, some things cannot be repaired cheaply, easily or at all.
People may not be reasonable nor sane and helping them may be a poor choice, but trying anyway will bring good karma.
If you want to stand with the big boys, you should have the ability to do so with grace, honor, integrity and humility.
There are none so blind as those that will not see.
There are none so lost as those that will not learn.
A very odd side effect of this is occurring for which I am honored and pleased and humbled.
But that is a private matter among friends for now.
blhagstrom
Mad Scientist, fixer.
I too feel bad.
Forgive me.
The scars will fade but will always remain.
Forgive me.
The scars will fade but will always remain.
anderslober
Yikes...not again!
Interestin' story. The 2500 is both heaven and utter hell. Sadly my unit is now also a boat anchor.:-( Damn transformer.
ToasterBin
Toasterbin
Of, if Blaine is correct, bury it in consecrated ground.This story could be made into a movie. Even a great writer could not have devised all the twists and turns. There are lessons to be learned; first of which is, if I ever find a 2500, I will leave it on the shelf or with the seller.
blhagstrom
Mad Scientist, fixer.
Much like the 1958 Plymouth Fury, not all Marantz 2500 are "Christine".
When they are working, they are awesome.
They were born out of a time called "The Receiver Wars" and that right there should be a bad omen.
The edge of tech was pushed to the very limits. Some things just went too far.
The original Phase Linear 700, the mighty Marantz 500, the Technics SA-1000, Pioneer SX-1980, Rotel RB-5000.
A lot of the TOTL stuff I get my hands on seems to have a "sketchy" feel to it.
Some things need a very serious and clear understanding of what you are dealing with.
These things can kill you.
When they are working, they are awesome.
They were born out of a time called "The Receiver Wars" and that right there should be a bad omen.
The edge of tech was pushed to the very limits. Some things just went too far.
The original Phase Linear 700, the mighty Marantz 500, the Technics SA-1000, Pioneer SX-1980, Rotel RB-5000.
A lot of the TOTL stuff I get my hands on seems to have a "sketchy" feel to it.
Some things need a very serious and clear understanding of what you are dealing with.
These things can kill you.
Bassblaster
Super Member
This guy appears to have found a solution:
http://vintagesilversmith.com/Marantz/2500_2600_Toroids.pdf
http://vintagesilversmith.com/Marantz/2500_2600_Toroids.pdf
blhagstrom
Mad Scientist, fixer.
I know of that.
It's offshore, location unknown.
Age of post Unknown.
Source of replacement built tranny unknown.
We are working towards getting transformers designed and built.
It's offshore, location unknown.
Age of post Unknown.
Source of replacement built tranny unknown.
We are working towards getting transformers designed and built.
Mag84ilfully
Young in spirit.
Blaine,
Here's the feedback that I should have left MONTHS ago.
Thank-you for all your work on my ENTIRE audio gear collection including the big Rotel RB-5000, 4 Marantz 2500, 1 (now 2) Concept 16.5's. Setton RS-660. Hitachi sr-2004, Marantz 500 and others
Dr. Hagstrom doesn't get enough credit for his work here and it is a failure on my part to point out the effort he goes to make Audiokarma a better place. I trusted Blaine with countless restorations, including the big monster amps that I mentioned, and he delivered every time.
Seriously everyone should give more appreciation for the work he is doing. A Marantz 2500 restoration isn't an every day task anyone would take on and do well. Blaine has done both. And then another 2500 restoration. And a Rotel RB-5000 restoration. And a Marantz 500 restoration (that one was cursed too).
You rock Blaine
Here's the feedback that I should have left MONTHS ago.
Thank-you for all your work on my ENTIRE audio gear collection including the big Rotel RB-5000, 4 Marantz 2500, 1 (now 2) Concept 16.5's. Setton RS-660. Hitachi sr-2004, Marantz 500 and others
Dr. Hagstrom doesn't get enough credit for his work here and it is a failure on my part to point out the effort he goes to make Audiokarma a better place. I trusted Blaine with countless restorations, including the big monster amps that I mentioned, and he delivered every time.
Seriously everyone should give more appreciation for the work he is doing. A Marantz 2500 restoration isn't an every day task anyone would take on and do well. Blaine has done both. And then another 2500 restoration. And a Rotel RB-5000 restoration. And a Marantz 500 restoration (that one was cursed too
).You rock Blaine
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