Mating a Fisher 440 Amp to a 490-T Tuner
- Thread starter audmod01
- Start date
audmod01
Super Member
gadget73;
Yes there is both a set of Aux Inputs and Tape Inputs and Tape Outputs that can be used for external devices. It has only one magnetic phono input which is already occupied by the Elac changer I added. I see the same sort of provisions on older console tuner/preamps. Some of the higher end Fisher console units have even more input capabilities. It would be easy to add a CD player or audio feed from a computer or phone using the Aux Inputs.
Joe
Yes there is both a set of Aux Inputs and Tape Inputs and Tape Outputs that can be used for external devices. It has only one magnetic phono input which is already occupied by the Elac changer I added. I see the same sort of provisions on older console tuner/preamps. Some of the higher end Fisher console units have even more input capabilities. It would be easy to add a CD player or audio feed from a computer or phone using the Aux Inputs.
Joe
Damn Joe, that IS really Nice looking. I'd put that in my house! Give it some KLH17's or Dynaco A-25's, (or Even some Kabuki styled Sansui 100 or 2500's) and she'll have one KICK ASS STEREO! Like Gadget said, she can add an external source box if she's got more than one source for the Aux.
Larry
Larry
audmod01
Super Member
Thanks guys for the compliments. Of course I know where all the imperfections are. The last several hours I have been working on a custom Owner's Manual for this combination. I took the owner's manual for the Electra VI and have modified some statements and illustrations to show what actually comprises the equipment now. It will be a full 20 page document with front page in color like the original document. I also have the original owner's manual for the record changer too, so she will get all the documentation which will include a print of the service manual data inside the cabinet in an envelope glued to the side or bottom. That way if anyone else has to work on the unit in the future other than me they will have all the information they will need.
I sent her pictures of the cabinet earlier today and she is getting excited. I am so happy to be able to do this for her. With all the new parts it should last her a long time and provide lots of enjoyment.
I sent her pictures of the cabinet earlier today and she is getting excited. I am so happy to be able to do this for her. With all the new parts it should last her a long time and provide lots of enjoyment.
What a neat project, Joe! And how great it turned out -- on top of it being something you loved doing, and she'll love getting! A family heir loom for sure. I think Avery would give you two thumbs up!
Dave
Dave
audmod01
Super Member
Gadget;
Yes i just finished modifying the owner's manual starting with one from an Electra VI model. I removed the original model numbers and substituted the 440-A chassis and its S/N and the 490-T and its S/N. I placed a color picture of the new cabinet on the front page and am calling it a "Custom Equipment Consolette". I made changes to some statements throughout the manual to account for slightly different operating characteristics and methods. I have scanned in the Elac 40A manual also and will enlarge the pages to make reading easier for the user.
I have searched for specifications on the 440-A amp/pwr supply chassis and have not found any. I do not know if Fisher actually published any power output ratings on the amp or not. If any of you have specifications you could point me to I would appreciate it. A guestimate would be about 12 watts TRMS per channel, but that could be either high or low.
Joe
Yes i just finished modifying the owner's manual starting with one from an Electra VI model. I removed the original model numbers and substituted the 440-A chassis and its S/N and the 490-T and its S/N. I placed a color picture of the new cabinet on the front page and am calling it a "Custom Equipment Consolette". I made changes to some statements throughout the manual to account for slightly different operating characteristics and methods. I have scanned in the Elac 40A manual also and will enlarge the pages to make reading easier for the user.
I have searched for specifications on the 440-A amp/pwr supply chassis and have not found any. I do not know if Fisher actually published any power output ratings on the amp or not. If any of you have specifications you could point me to I would appreciate it. A guestimate would be about 12 watts TRMS per channel, but that could be either high or low.
Joe
audmod01
Super Member
I suspect that the older versions of the Electra, especially the Electra III had a higher output power level and likely better low end response due to having larger output transformers with more metal in them. It is what it is though and Fisher always managed to deliver good sound in their products. Competition was fierce during those days and never relented. With the advent of the transistorized power amplifiers better low end response was restored to the product. Consoles had specific speakers that were already connected, so there was less risk of someone disconnecting them and turning the unit on resulting in destruction of output transistors. Early transistorized units did not have protection circuits built in.
Joe
Joe
Even non-console amps had no protection in the early days beyond the output coupling cap. Wrong speaker load and the smoke came out. Not quite as bad as direct coupled though, the cap provided some buffer against harsh speaker loading. Early DC amps just blew up when something went bad. Transistors are very impolite about it too, its almost never a single component failure so you end up with a bag of roasted parts.
audmod01
Super Member
Gadget;
How well I know. I have a Marantz 170DC that blew up a couple of years ago and it is still unrepaired. I tried twice and it blew up the same channel twice - gets expensive! That is in spite of having a protection circuit. I now suspect that may be where the trouble is, but I am now using my Dynakit ST-70 which has been refurbed and is working very well and sounds great, so the need for the 170DC is not very high. I may just offer it for sale.
Have fun!
I am off to town to look for a few items for this unit to help finish up, a knob for the lid and a magnetic catch plus some felt pads for the front edge of the lid. I scanned in the Elac Miracord 40A document yesterday and am cleaning up the image files to print out for my granddaughter - making progress!
Joe
How well I know. I have a Marantz 170DC that blew up a couple of years ago and it is still unrepaired. I tried twice and it blew up the same channel twice - gets expensive! That is in spite of having a protection circuit. I now suspect that may be where the trouble is, but I am now using my Dynakit ST-70 which has been refurbed and is working very well and sounds great, so the need for the 170DC is not very high. I may just offer it for sale.
Have fun!
I am off to town to look for a few items for this unit to help finish up, a knob for the lid and a magnetic catch plus some felt pads for the front edge of the lid. I scanned in the Elac Miracord 40A document yesterday and am cleaning up the image files to print out for my granddaughter - making progress!
Joe
audmod01
Super Member
Today I received the handles I had ordered and took time to measure height above the bottom of the cabinet and mid-way from front to back. I inserted some screw anchors for wood to 6-32 screw studs into the handle's mounting holes. Once I had the handle in correct position I tapped on the handle with a rubber mallet and drove the wood screw point into the cabinet side to mark the spots to drill holes for the fastening screws. Holes were drilled and the handles mounted using the screws that came with them. These handles are stainless steel about the same finish as the knob I used on the front of the lid. If it turns out they are not strong enough, I can always get something stouter later.
I added a wrap-around-corner FM twin-lead antenna on the back of the cabinet. It is not ideal, but should work reasonably well. I removed the tuner/pramp chassis to install an aluminum plate under the chassis. I had some thin aluminum sheet that I had bought years ago that I found and decided to use for shielding the bottom of both chassis. I placed each chassis on top of the aluminum sheet and marked the chassis outlines on them with a marks-alot. I have a hand operated metal nibbling tool that I used to cut the pieces out of the larger sheet. I remounted the tuner/preamp chassis with the plate between the cabinet wall and the chassis. When the chassis is tightened down it touches the sheet grounding it to the chassis quite well. The one for the power amp/pwr supply chassis is sitting under that chassis, but the exact position for the two has not been determined yet. Once I find the best spot with least hum, if any, I will fasten both to the bottom of the cabinet.
The weather is not going to be the best for working in the barn this week due to a cold front, but I may still be able to do what I need to in order to complete the project. I can shut the doors and turn on the lights inside and use an auto trouble light to focus on anything I am having trouble seeing.
I think the cabinet looks neat enough to provide good service and reasonable looks for my granddaughter. Hope to finish it all soon. Here are a couple of pictures of the cabinet with the handles mounted.
Joe
I added a wrap-around-corner FM twin-lead antenna on the back of the cabinet. It is not ideal, but should work reasonably well. I removed the tuner/pramp chassis to install an aluminum plate under the chassis. I had some thin aluminum sheet that I had bought years ago that I found and decided to use for shielding the bottom of both chassis. I placed each chassis on top of the aluminum sheet and marked the chassis outlines on them with a marks-alot. I have a hand operated metal nibbling tool that I used to cut the pieces out of the larger sheet. I remounted the tuner/preamp chassis with the plate between the cabinet wall and the chassis. When the chassis is tightened down it touches the sheet grounding it to the chassis quite well. The one for the power amp/pwr supply chassis is sitting under that chassis, but the exact position for the two has not been determined yet. Once I find the best spot with least hum, if any, I will fasten both to the bottom of the cabinet.
The weather is not going to be the best for working in the barn this week due to a cold front, but I may still be able to do what I need to in order to complete the project. I can shut the doors and turn on the lights inside and use an auto trouble light to focus on anything I am having trouble seeing.
I think the cabinet looks neat enough to provide good service and reasonable looks for my granddaughter. Hope to finish it all soon. Here are a couple of pictures of the cabinet with the handles mounted.
Joe
audmod01
Super Member
Today I plan to finish the installation of the 440-A amplifier chassis in the cabinet. It is already in place and I used a 1.25" wide X 1/32" thick copper strap to interconnect the amp chassis and the tuner/preamp chassis. This is a piece of copper strap that I used to ground the tower for my amateur radio installation. It can be obtained from several companies that specialize in amateur radio supplies and transceivers. There remains the task of adding a notch in the bottom rear horizontal rib to hold the extension wires and terminal strip for connecting the bookshelf XP-55B speakers, connecting the FM T-antenna and adding a rear cover.
Joe
Joe
Joe; Im not criticizing your work in any way. You did a fantastic job of building a cabinet that is both good looking and functional for your Grand-Daughter. But I have one suggestion for future projects (or possible modification to this one) concerning the side handle placement. From the Standpoint of center of gravity the handles appear to be too low and an increased incidence of rotational toppling may occur as the greatest amount of weight is concentrated in the top 1/2 of the unit (it appears to be top heavy). I would suggest that the handles be moved (in future constructs) to approx 1/8 to 1/4 of the vertical distance from the top to counteract the tendency of the unit to rotate when carried, especially if she stacks other stuff on top of it while moving it.
Larry
Larry
audmod01
Super Member
Larry;
Good points. I need to recheck the physical balance with the amp/pwr supply secured in the bottom. My son and I carried it from the barn to the house with the changer and amp/pwr supply removed.
I had to take time to correct some errors in the speaker wiring to/from the speaker switch. It took me quite a while to get that done which involved having to trace the wires using my ohm meter until I determined how the speaker selector switch worked. I misunderstood some of the wiring of the switch. The key is determining which wire and contact of the switch is the input from the amp output transformers and which ones are the output wires for the main and remote speakers. The amp/pwr supply being a 440-A has different speaker connection capabilities. It only provides for main speakers and any expansion speakers have to be connected to the WS-1 RCA jacks instead of regular speaker terminal screws. So the way this one is wired now any speakers that might be connected to the WS-1 jacks would be activated when the Main plus Remote or Remote speaker function is selected. Actually I am not bringing the Remote RCA jacks out to the back of the cabinet, so they will probably never be used.
I discovered that the phono operation exhibits a problem with much lower volume on one channel. Radio functions are balanced. I changed from a Shure magnetic cartridge to an Audio Empire 888PE magnetic cartridge and both perform the same way with one channel weak. I cleaned connections and the problem remained. Tomorrow I will try swapping the preamp 12AX7 tubes and see if the weak channel moves to the other side. If it does I have a tube problem. If not it will be something in the preamp circuitry. Was the Electra VI designed to use a magnetic cartridge? The volume of the good channel is far lower than the AM or FM functions when either magnetic cartridge was tried.
I spent most of the day doing all the work. I had it sitting on the floor so that made work a bit more difficult. Tomorrow I plan to get my son to help me move it to a better spot to finish checking the remaining issues. The main issue will be to get it at about waist level to make it easier to work on.
I need to make some labels for antenna connection terminals and the speaker terminals. Those will go on the cabinet rear cover which still remains to be made. I have some metal screen wire I will use to provide ventilation but keep little fingers out.
Joe
Good points. I need to recheck the physical balance with the amp/pwr supply secured in the bottom. My son and I carried it from the barn to the house with the changer and amp/pwr supply removed.
I had to take time to correct some errors in the speaker wiring to/from the speaker switch. It took me quite a while to get that done which involved having to trace the wires using my ohm meter until I determined how the speaker selector switch worked. I misunderstood some of the wiring of the switch. The key is determining which wire and contact of the switch is the input from the amp output transformers and which ones are the output wires for the main and remote speakers. The amp/pwr supply being a 440-A has different speaker connection capabilities. It only provides for main speakers and any expansion speakers have to be connected to the WS-1 RCA jacks instead of regular speaker terminal screws. So the way this one is wired now any speakers that might be connected to the WS-1 jacks would be activated when the Main plus Remote or Remote speaker function is selected. Actually I am not bringing the Remote RCA jacks out to the back of the cabinet, so they will probably never be used.
I discovered that the phono operation exhibits a problem with much lower volume on one channel. Radio functions are balanced. I changed from a Shure magnetic cartridge to an Audio Empire 888PE magnetic cartridge and both perform the same way with one channel weak. I cleaned connections and the problem remained. Tomorrow I will try swapping the preamp 12AX7 tubes and see if the weak channel moves to the other side. If it does I have a tube problem. If not it will be something in the preamp circuitry. Was the Electra VI designed to use a magnetic cartridge? The volume of the good channel is far lower than the AM or FM functions when either magnetic cartridge was tried.
I spent most of the day doing all the work. I had it sitting on the floor so that made work a bit more difficult. Tomorrow I plan to get my son to help me move it to a better spot to finish checking the remaining issues. The main issue will be to get it at about waist level to make it easier to work on.
I need to make some labels for antenna connection terminals and the speaker terminals. Those will go on the cabinet rear cover which still remains to be made. I have some metal screen wire I will use to provide ventilation but keep little fingers out.
Joe
Magnetic Cartridge. YES! Usually a Pickering ATE/V15 type. A very good sub for them is the Pickering/Stanton 500V.3 or even the 400V.3. Both are hi output types @ about 8 to 10 mv each. Both are no longer being made and only on E-PREY. The Old V15/ATE were good for about 5mv. Lower volume with a magnetic cartridge is normal operational modes with them. If you can find a 500V.3 This will solve most of the low volume provided everything else is kosher.
Speaker wiring sounds fine. The WS-1 was designed as an adjunct to the mains helping with mids and highs only. She'll have plenty of both with the XP-55's on the loose. The speakers in the consoles are their weak points actually. Connecting any console to any external speaker (even Panasonic thrusters ) will give better sound. So she'll be ok with the XP-55's.
Speaker wiring sounds fine. The WS-1 was designed as an adjunct to the mains helping with mids and highs only. She'll have plenty of both with the XP-55's on the loose. The speakers in the consoles are their weak points actually. Connecting any console to any external speaker (even Panasonic thrusters ) will give better sound. So she'll be ok with the XP-55's.
