Mcintosh tuners - Way overrated?
- Thread starter jlovda
- Start date
Bubo
Super Member
jlovda,
The individual who wrote these reports was doing it for fun, not fame nor fortune.
- Our current membership is 6,124 registered members.
Just out of curiosity, did the reviewer work on radios either for a living or a serious hobby, so they were already familiar with most of the top sets over the years????
For example, I'm sure Punker would have his top picks from his experience before he ever tuned a unit on for the bake off..
I liked the TIC bake off write up and do give it weight, agree should not pay extraordinary sums based solely on the list...
william13
That's not me
Hours
So I will put on NPR radio using my MR78 and listen with out fatigue for hours. I have no idea which tuner is the best but the 78 sound has depth, detail, and warmth. I use it for the news but when music plays its not so bad.
So I will put on NPR radio using my MR78 and listen with out fatigue for hours. I have no idea which tuner is the best but the 78 sound has depth, detail, and warmth. I use it for the news but when music plays its not so bad.
Vinyl Rules!
Well-Known Member
The TIC shootout reviewer is a retired SW Bell Telco Technician who has been building and designing his own amps, pre-amps and speakers for at least 40 years (I know him well). His workshop is probably better equipped than some (but not all) techs who claim to work on FM tuners.
He routinely aligns and mods his tuners with matched ceramic IF filters for those tuners whose IF section uses ceramic filters. And he has upgraded the power supply and the audio output section in many of his personal tuners. Because this is his hobby, he only works on tuners for himself and a few close friends - He does no commercial work for anyone, period. :dammit:
Most of the tuners used in his shootouts were borrowed from an extraordinarily avid (and wealthy) collector in the D/FW area. This individual has collected almost one of every model FM tuner made from the 1950's up until about the 1990's! :grnbounce
Yes, he (the collector, not the shootout reviewer) has one each of almost every model Accuphase through every model Yamaha. And all of the tuners the TIC reviewer tested were stock, unless stated otherwise in the shootout review.
So the TIC shootout reviewer is very well acquainted with almost all tuners ever made. He only tested a small number of the tuners he had access to from the local collector. I can only think of two tuners he has not heard, the Accuphase T-1100 and the McIntosh MR88. :tears:
As for why he stopped doing the shootouts, I think he became more interested in spending more time with his family and refining his amplifier and pre-amp designs because of two simultaneous events that conspired to lessen his interest in continuing the shootouts (NOTE: This is just my own personal opinion).
1. The sound quality of both Public Radio and commercial radio stations, and their programming, has declined: Many stations sound worse today than they did 20 years ago & many Public Radio stations have become talk radio stations whilst many commercial radio stations' playlist goes no deeper than 40 songs; and
2. The commercial market for quality FM tuners (Meaning $ tuners to $$$$ tuners) has gone away because people have embraced diverse new interests like video-games, MP3 players/iPods, and the Internet. And don't forget CD's and DVD's have also replaced long FM listening sessions. :tears:
These were disruptive technologies that replaced listening to FM broadcasts with the psychodemographic groups that used to purchase quality FM tuners and listen to music for hours on end.
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Bubo
Super Member
Most of the tuners used in his shootouts were borrowed from an extraordinarily avid (and wealthy) collector in the D/FW area. This individual has collected almost one of every model FM tuner made from the 1950's up until about the 1990's! :grnbounce
.
Thanks for the thorough response.
Two comments:
The tester, from your description, undoubtedly knew if the units he tested were in proper working order by their behavior, sure he didn't align every unit first....I am satisfied that the playing field was level in this regard.
Secondly, the scope of the tests is bracketed by 1950s-2000, as Beezley asserts the $90 Sony HD is the finest FM tuner ever manufactured, are there other contemporary tuners that are the equal or better than the Heroes of Old aka the top 10??? Hot rodded Sonys can be had for $400-600 and apparently have a line waiting for them.
As a side note, it's no surprise that Kenwood and Accuphase, founded by Kenwood and Luxman engineers. are top performers. Kenwood is also in the Short wave tuner business which is tuning at a much higher level than FM Stereo. My 2 cents.....
william13
That's not me
sound quality
Why should the "sound quality" of FM public radio decline? Becoming a nation of illiterates does not affect transmission.
The TIC shootout reviewer is a retired SW Bell Telco Technician who has been building and designing his own amps, pre-amps and speakers for at least 40 years (I know him well). His workshop is probably better equipped than some (but not all) techs who claim to work on FM tuners.
He routinely aligns and mods his tuners with matched ceramic IF filters for those tuners whose IF section uses ceramic filters. And he has upgraded the power supply and the audio output section in many of his personal tuners. Because this is his hobby, he only works on tuners for himself and a few close friends - He does no commercial work for anyone, period. :dammit:
Most of the tuners used in his shootouts were borrowed from an extraordinarily avid (and wealthy) collector in the D/FW area. This individual has collected almost one of every model FM tuner made from the 1950's up until about the 1990's! :grnbounce
Yes, he (the collector, not the shootout reviewer) has one each of almost every model Accuphase through every model Yamaha. And all of the tuners the TIC reviewer tested were stock, unless stated otherwise in the shootout review.
So the TIC shootout reviewer is very well acquainted with almost all tuners ever made. He only tested a small number of the tuners he had access to from the local collector. I can only think of two tuners he has not heard, the Accuphase T-1100 and the McIntosh MR88. :tears:
As for why he stopped doing the shootouts, I think he became more interested in spending more time with his family and refining his amplifier and pre-amp designs because of two simultaneous events that conspired to lessen his interest in continuing the shootouts (NOTE: This is just my own personal opinion).
1. The sound quality of both Public Radio and commercial radio stations, and their programming, has decline. Many stations sound worse today than they did 20 years ago & many Public Radio stations have become talk radio stations whilst many commercial radio stations' playlist goes no deeper than 40 songs; and
2. The commercial market for quality FM tuners (Meaning $ tuners to $$$$ tuners) has gone away because people have embraced diverse new interests like video-games, MP3 players/iPods, and the Internet. And don't forget CD's and DVD's have also replaced long FM listening sessions. :tears:
These were disruptive technologies that replaced listening to FM broadcasts with the psychodemographic groups that used to purchase quality FM tuners and listen to music for hours on end.
Why should the "sound quality" of FM public radio decline? Becoming a nation of illiterates does not affect transmission.
Vinyl Rules!
Well-Known Member
Easy answer: IBOC (AKA HD radio).
Many NPR stations were offered free federal grants to purchase & install HD broadcast equipment. The company that owns the HD radio technology successfully lobbied Congress to provide funds for public radio stations to purchase their HD radio broadcast equipment. NPR actively encouraged their affiliates to take advantage of the free money for the HD broadcast equipment.
HD radio's marketing strategy was to get the public radio station broadcasting HD FM and then use this to try and crack the commercial FM radio market. This strategy has not worked because most commercial radio stations were unwilling to spend $100,000+ on new HD broadcast equipment and then pay an annual licensing fee to broadcast HD signals.
As for the sound quality of the public radio stations, most of these stations could not (and cannot) afford good engineers and the sound quality of the analog signal suffered at many NPR stations when they began broadcasting HD signals.
Bubo
Super Member
HD radio's marketing strategy was to get the public radio station broadcasting HD FM and then use this to try and crack the commercial FM radio market. This strategy has not worked because most commercial radio stations were unwilling to spend $100,000+ on new HD broadcast equipment and then pay an annual licensing fee to broadcast HD signals.
I checked Amazon today to see the status of the tuner market, does this make me alliterate??
Amazon now offers ZERO HD Tuners for sale.
HD is DOA
Lots of HD subcarriers in the St. Louis and KC areas. We only have one in Springfield (NPR, which runs a lovely 24-hour Jazz station on their HD2 subcarrier), the other stations which had HD broadcast equipment never had subchannels running and seem to have turned off their HD broadcast equipment.
Oddly enough, Joplin, which is a much smaller market, has more HD broadcasting.
Bubo - check the car stereo market.
Oddly enough, Joplin, which is a much smaller market, has more HD broadcasting.
Bubo - check the car stereo market.
Most cars come with HD tuner. Upper range HT receivers have HD tuners too. Market for standalone tuners does not exist anymore.
exhippy
I use to have long hair. Now I'm lucky to have any
No am/fm tuners without HD will cut it for me. Not a fan of "commercial" FM, not into the same-o, same-o. I like 60's & 70's rock & roll with a little Blues thrown in now and then. HD seems to fit the bill for me. We have a couple of HD stations in town. One collage KCLC 2-HD and KSHE 2-HD which by the way KSHE 1 is the longest FM rock & roll format station in America, since 1967 (don't believe me? your on the internet, look it up!) I wouldn't say HD is DOA, it depends a lot on where you live and what formats your into.
I had trouble finding a HD/FM tuner. Came across a Denon that's HD capable. It'll have to do for now, saving my pennies for a MR-88.
.
I had trouble finding a HD/FM tuner. Came across a Denon that's HD capable. It'll have to do for now, saving my pennies for a MR-88.
.
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This is such a tired argument on this forum, I don't know why people on here refuse to accept HD FM. I've had several rental cars with HD and tuned in HD stations all over the country. At home in Chicago I get plenty of HD signals and interesting content on the sub-channels. In an ideal world I'd have both my MR88 and MR74 hooked up at the same time for the best of both worlds, but as it stands my MR88 with HD and XM is the sole tuner I've got running.
Clayton63105
New Member
KSHE in St. Louis was one of the first FM Rock stations in the U.S. to play rock music that went beyond the then dominant Top-40 AM format. In 1967 KSHE patterned itself on some of the pioneering FM Rock stations in San Francisco. This was, overall, a monumental radio transition as a generation of kids began to hear songs from groups or artists (like the Jefferson Airplane) that were not being played on AM TOP-40. Of course, this didn't help the AM TOP-40 model which was a lot of fun, so, like growing up, this transition was somewhat bittersweet.
Bubo
Super Member
Good point, a couple of days ago I had some free time to search on Amazon.
HD FM attachment for I-phone is $5, yes there are auto add ons for $50 and for $100 you can get a complete car radio with HD FM. I stand corrected.
As you say Amazon offers no FM tuner I could find, neither does Marantz, I didn't bother to check every one else.
doug s.
Super Member
i should chime in here, since it's likely that i am the one that was referenced over on the yahoo fmtuna board. i have owned and listened to more than 100 tuna chez sedon. the mr77 i owned - refurb'd and aligned - was the 2nd worst sounding tuna i ever heard. the mint never serviced mr74 was not quite as bad, but almost. (btw, winylrules - i have never hidden the tech who did the refurb/alignment on my mr77. it was a factory authorized tech in bethesda maryland w/over 35 years' experience, recommended to me by the factory, when i told them i wanted to send the tuna to binghamptom for service. that was ~10 years ago; afaik, the guy has now retired.)
now, i am not someone who has anything against mac (or any other brand, for that matter); i yust call 'em as i see (or hear) 'em. (well, to be honest, that is not quite true. i don't like mfr's such as levinson, that, for example, rebadge korsun electronics and then mark them up 500-700%.) i owned a refurb, modded and aligned mcintosh mr65b, (stephen sank does great work, if you are patient and don't need it quickly), and it was very good sounding. the 74 and the 77 had much better reception, but the 65b actually sounded nice. still over-priced, imo, as the sherwood tubers - s300ll and newer - still sound better than the mr65b, with nominally better reception as well.
doug s.
ymmv,
doug s.
now, i am not someone who has anything against mac (or any other brand, for that matter); i yust call 'em as i see (or hear) 'em. (well, to be honest, that is not quite true. i don't like mfr's such as levinson, that, for example, rebadge korsun electronics and then mark them up 500-700%.) i owned a refurb, modded and aligned mcintosh mr65b, (stephen sank does great work, if you are patient and don't need it quickly), and it was very good sounding. the 74 and the 77 had much better reception, but the 65b actually sounded nice. still over-priced, imo, as the sherwood tubers - s300ll and newer - still sound better than the mr65b, with nominally better reception as well.
doug s.
ymmv,
doug s.
doug s.
Super Member
Bubo
Super Member
Is there actually a good repair shop in B Town or was it just this guy???
I'm originally from K town...
I have a friend in your area with a lot of Vintage that needs it updated.
doug s.
Super Member
jealous? of what? :lmao: i owned three mac tunas; sold them. one sounded good. i have owned more than 100 tuna; i presently own ~50. so why would i be jealous?
the best ones in my "school" presently include:
- rotel rht10; refurb'd/modded/aligned
- hk citation 18; refurb'd/modded/aligned
- sansui tu-x1; refurb'd/modded/aligned
- sherwood s3000v; refurb'd/modded/aligned
and a slew of other fine tuna, including roksan caspian, 3 revox's (b260s, b261, a76), 5 hk's, (2-18's, 14, 15, 23), aiwa at9700u, onix bwd-1/soap-2, assorted other sherwoods, 2 heathkit aj1600's (one refurb'd/modded/aligned), etc. etc. etc.
some tuna owned and sold (many others not listed)
- accuphase t109; refurb'd/modded/aligned
- sansui tu-9900; refurb'd/modded/aligned
- sansui tu-9900
- mitsubishi da-f20; refurb'd/modded/aligned
- mitsubishi da-f20
- kenwood l07-tll; refurb'd/modded/aligned
- technics st9030; refurb'd/modded/aligned
- kenwood tu7500; refurb'd/modded/aligned
- tandberg 3001a; refurb'd/modded/aligned
- denon tu900; refurb'd/aligned
- tandberg 3001a
- revox b760
- audiolab t8000
- accuphase t100 (2)
- accuphase t101
- yamaha t2
- meridian 204
- kenwood kt8300
- denon tu850
ya, i am jealous. :lmao:
my experience is that those who have an emotional attachment to something, get their panties all in a bunch when others don't agree w/them. That's just the way our society has been.
doug s.
the best ones in my "school" presently include:
- rotel rht10; refurb'd/modded/aligned
- hk citation 18; refurb'd/modded/aligned
- sansui tu-x1; refurb'd/modded/aligned
- sherwood s3000v; refurb'd/modded/aligned
and a slew of other fine tuna, including roksan caspian, 3 revox's (b260s, b261, a76), 5 hk's, (2-18's, 14, 15, 23), aiwa at9700u, onix bwd-1/soap-2, assorted other sherwoods, 2 heathkit aj1600's (one refurb'd/modded/aligned), etc. etc. etc.
some tuna owned and sold (many others not listed)
- accuphase t109; refurb'd/modded/aligned
- sansui tu-9900; refurb'd/modded/aligned
- sansui tu-9900
- mitsubishi da-f20; refurb'd/modded/aligned
- mitsubishi da-f20
- kenwood l07-tll; refurb'd/modded/aligned
- technics st9030; refurb'd/modded/aligned
- kenwood tu7500; refurb'd/modded/aligned
- tandberg 3001a; refurb'd/modded/aligned
- denon tu900; refurb'd/aligned
- tandberg 3001a
- revox b760
- audiolab t8000
- accuphase t100 (2)
- accuphase t101
- yamaha t2
- meridian 204
- kenwood kt8300
- denon tu850
ya, i am jealous. :lmao:
my experience is that those who have an emotional attachment to something, get their panties all in a bunch when others don't agree w/them. That's just the way our society has been.
doug s.
It has been my experience that you will find bashers for any product. Some will have no experience with the said unit, some will make comments that are most likely untrue. Whatever the case may be, the bottom line is they are jealous.
That's just the way our society has been.
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