jcmjrt
Addicted Member
Ya' know I could think of a few women who were at the show. And all were gorgeous creatures with amazing intellects and golden ears...much like the fine men of AK...except for BigMac who forgot his thong this year.
My AK Fest Experience; First and Probably My Last.
- Thread starter SubWolfer
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Ya' know I could think of a few women who were at the show. And all were gorgeous creatures with amazing intellects and golden ears...much like the fine men of AK...except for BigMac who forgot his thong this year.
SubWolfer
Well-Known Member
Well guys, it appears as though I stirred things up a bit. After a couple days of thinking and reading your posts, I think it's quite clear my opinion of the AK Fest has been met with strong opposition, which is solidified by a number of PMs I've received. Obviously if I was a seasoned AK member, I would probably have never initiated a thread of this nature. So for all of you commenting on my bravery, it's more that I just didn't know any better, rather than an act of courage. I expected a few opposing comments, sure. But had no idea I was messing with such a passionate crowd. Sounds like this AK Fest has a real loyal group of friends and perhaps it would be better without noobs like me spouting off. Makes me think it would be best if I just left things be.
I need to say one thing though about some of the comments made in this thread. None of you were in my shoes and despite your descriptive elaborations of how folks at the Fest are all so friendly and welcoming, that was not what I experienced. I read the comments that said I lack social skills and that I didn't put anything into it; thus the reason I didn't enjoy myself. But y'all that made those comments likely had "friends" there. Every room I walked into; it was awkward. Some almost had a vibe like I walked in on lovers. OK, maybe that's a slight exaggeration. But it just felt strange, like I didn't belong. Like this was a wedding and I crashed it. No one was flat out rude, but I sure didn't feel the love.
Perhaps I actually just had bad luck/timing in the rooms I entered. But after repeated similar experiences opening closed doors, I began to get a little apprehensive. And almost every one had the curtains pulled tightly shut. Does that sound like a welcoming atmosphere for a noob to you? How y'all are so surprised I stayed only a little over an hour is a mystery to me. I'm surprised I stayed that long.
One very valid point was made though by several who replied to this thread that I think holds water. And that is I probably should have gone by myself, rather than bring a friend who also had never been there before. I did kind of keel like it was sort of my duty to make sure he had fun and when I seen he was disappointed and not having a good time, it did have an effect on me. Heck, had i been by myself I might have even tried to break the ice with some of y'all. Because if you look at my profile, I'm certainly not a 20 something young man (like some of ya think). And who knows, maybe I would even made a friend or two. :yes: That would made a big difference and I could see that this is more than just an audio show. The "inner circle" vibe was alive and well. But obviously the comments I've made here certainly hasn't helped me in that area.
So bottom line is I aint blaming anyone. I reckon it was a combination of friend in tow, poor timing, and inflated show-mentality expectations that contributed to my opinion that the Fest was boring and non-noob friendly. But I stand by my original comments that although its great to have some wildly expensive gear, I think more displays showing blue-collar, swap meet kind of stuff, would make it much more interesting for first timers and those of us who would like to compare quality entry-level to mid-level components.
Case-in-point; I walked into the Quad room intending to test out some of their bookshelf speakers. That's the room that had the amazing $10k speakers. Nice? Oh yeah. Amazing sounding? You betcha! But even though friendly occupants were welcoming me in. Just felt out of my league and exited quickly to make room for more qualified potential customers. :ntwrthy:
I need to say one thing though about some of the comments made in this thread. None of you were in my shoes and despite your descriptive elaborations of how folks at the Fest are all so friendly and welcoming, that was not what I experienced. I read the comments that said I lack social skills and that I didn't put anything into it; thus the reason I didn't enjoy myself. But y'all that made those comments likely had "friends" there. Every room I walked into; it was awkward. Some almost had a vibe like I walked in on lovers. OK, maybe that's a slight exaggeration. But it just felt strange, like I didn't belong. Like this was a wedding and I crashed it. No one was flat out rude, but I sure didn't feel the love.
Perhaps I actually just had bad luck/timing in the rooms I entered. But after repeated similar experiences opening closed doors, I began to get a little apprehensive. And almost every one had the curtains pulled tightly shut. Does that sound like a welcoming atmosphere for a noob to you? How y'all are so surprised I stayed only a little over an hour is a mystery to me. I'm surprised I stayed that long.
One very valid point was made though by several who replied to this thread that I think holds water. And that is I probably should have gone by myself, rather than bring a friend who also had never been there before. I did kind of keel like it was sort of my duty to make sure he had fun and when I seen he was disappointed and not having a good time, it did have an effect on me. Heck, had i been by myself I might have even tried to break the ice with some of y'all. Because if you look at my profile, I'm certainly not a 20 something young man (like some of ya think). And who knows, maybe I would even made a friend or two. :yes: That would made a big difference and I could see that this is more than just an audio show. The "inner circle" vibe was alive and well. But obviously the comments I've made here certainly hasn't helped me in that area.
So bottom line is I aint blaming anyone. I reckon it was a combination of friend in tow, poor timing, and inflated show-mentality expectations that contributed to my opinion that the Fest was boring and non-noob friendly. But I stand by my original comments that although its great to have some wildly expensive gear, I think more displays showing blue-collar, swap meet kind of stuff, would make it much more interesting for first timers and those of us who would like to compare quality entry-level to mid-level components.
Case-in-point; I walked into the Quad room intending to test out some of their bookshelf speakers. That's the room that had the amazing $10k speakers. Nice? Oh yeah. Amazing sounding? You betcha! But even though friendly occupants were welcoming me in. Just felt out of my league and exited quickly to make room for more qualified potential customers. :ntwrthy:
Joyce, my guess is that this was a shot at the gear in our Swap Room.
My stuff was tossed together pretty much as a listening station, but the EPIs were for sale for less than I could flip the woofers alone on eBay. And the Marantz 1030 was an AK member donation to Grumpy and was sold with all the proceeds going to AK. The Dual was a beater, but it worked with a Shure MX97e cartridge and was not for sale
FWIW, Large Advents, EPI 100s, vintage Pioneer separates, Marantz 1030s, Dual turntables, and much of the other gear in the Swap room may not be the cutting edge of modern audio, but certainly is worthy of use and display at an audio show.
Perhaps the OP is one unworthy of the audio show???
Justen
Send Lawyers,Guns & Money
Ya' know I could think of a few women who were at the show. And all were gorgeous creatures with amazing intellects and golden ears...much like the fine men of AK...except for BigMac who forgot his thong this year.
All the women I met fit that bill to a "T". Not sure I'd agree about the men though!
I've made several posts in this thread and note that this was my first AK event of any kind. Before this fest I had met exactly 2 AKers, one who I bought a piece of gear from before I found out he was on AK and one who is an old running buddy of mine. I still think you get out of it what you put into it. Same goes for posting on the fora. If you don't ask, you may lurk forever looking for your answer. At the fest, if you don't jump into a conversation or a listening room then you may be a wallflower for the whole event.
So can we sign you up for a room next year? That's what it takes. If you think the fest needs a blue collar room then grab a buddy or 2, put your gear together, and show the world. Maybe a bunch of people will think the same thing and next year the vintage, mid-fi, and entry level stuff will outnumber the high zoot stuff.
A note here...AK is NOT about vintage or cheap gear exclusively. It's about all audio (no attitude) no matter the year of manfacture or price tag.
Ray
So can we sign you up for a room next year? That's what it takes. If you think the fest needs a blue collar room then grab a buddy or 2, put your gear together, and show the world. Maybe a bunch of people will think the same thing and next year the vintage, mid-fi, and entry level stuff will outnumber the high zoot stuff.
A note here...AK is NOT about vintage or cheap gear exclusively. It's about all audio (no attitude) no matter the year of manfacture or price tag.
Ray
SubWolfer
Well-Known Member
No, unfortunately, I missed those rooms. Probably because I didn't know what was in them because doors were closed and curtains shut. My bad for not seeking them out? Sure, I'll accept that. But my prior experiences in other rooms played a major role in my overlooking subsequent rooms . This was my first time and I guess I didn't know what to look for. I had no idea what was in certain rooms because the room names were foreign to me. I relied on familiar vendor names (Marantz, McIntosh, Quad, etc). I'll be the first to admit I was somewhat lost and didn't really know what rooms to be certain to check out. Again, my bad, but it wasn't like there was a beginners guide included with my entry fee.
Confusion, closed doors, pulled curtains, extremely expensive gear in the rooms I did enter, the feeling of interrupting conversation, and a lack of knowledge and just plain being unaware of what certain rooms held (because I couldn't just look in and see) all played a part in my experience.
I'm not blaming anyone but myself at this point as I know a lot of good people worked hard to put this event on. I just wanted to share my experience with y'all and let ya know it wasn't fun for everyone, and why.
This keeps coming up so a couple points here:
1) AK was under a microscope here as it was the first time at this hotel and there was a wedding there Saturday that was not to be interfered with. The doors had to be closed to keep the sound in. Just a fact of life. I thought the rooms did a good job of sound containment and the system operators showed good restraint.
B) Glass is a horrible surface, acoustically speaking. Hotel rooms are not kind to stereo systems and keeping the glass covered by curtains was one way to ameliorate the problem (love that word). It wasn't about exclusion, but about getting the best sound possible out of a bad room.
Ray
Thanks for checking back in on the thread. I was afraid we lost you for good!
I think you've probably read most of the replies...
Doors closed and unwelcoming: Every door was propped open by the latch or deadbolt, so all you had to do was push and walk in.
Curtains drawn: Sound-muffling, and block out the distraction of people walking by so you could concentrate on listening.
Unfriendly and unwelcoming people: Well, everybody I said "Hi" to said "Hi" back. And, as has been posted, 75% of the attendees were not AK members, and I certainly didn't know all the members that attended.
But the following post may have said the most about the true reason you felt uncomfortable as you went from room to room:
You were looking at the situation completely incorrectly. The high-end gear was NOT there just for "more qualified potential customers", it was there for everybody to listen to. Everybody. It was there to educate you to the possibilities, to open your ears to sounds you may never have heard before, and to give you a point of reference, of comparison, every time you listen to another system in the future.
Believe me, the vendors all know what percent of browsers will actually buy, and it ain't high. I just walked in and planted my butt on the couch, or stood in the corner when the room was full. The most common question I heard from the vendor in each room? "What would you like to listen to?" You have no idea how many vendors responded with a big smile when I said: "Wow, that really sounds great!" as I was leaving each room.
That's all they wanted to hear. That's all you needed to say.
I think you've probably read most of the replies...
Doors closed and unwelcoming: Every door was propped open by the latch or deadbolt, so all you had to do was push and walk in.
Curtains drawn: Sound-muffling, and block out the distraction of people walking by so you could concentrate on listening.
Unfriendly and unwelcoming people: Well, everybody I said "Hi" to said "Hi" back. And, as has been posted, 75% of the attendees were not AK members, and I certainly didn't know all the members that attended.
But the following post may have said the most about the true reason you felt uncomfortable as you went from room to room:
You were looking at the situation completely incorrectly. The high-end gear was NOT there just for "more qualified potential customers", it was there for everybody to listen to. Everybody. It was there to educate you to the possibilities, to open your ears to sounds you may never have heard before, and to give you a point of reference, of comparison, every time you listen to another system in the future.
Believe me, the vendors all know what percent of browsers will actually buy, and it ain't high. I just walked in and planted my butt on the couch, or stood in the corner when the room was full. The most common question I heard from the vendor in each room? "What would you like to listen to?" You have no idea how many vendors responded with a big smile when I said: "Wow, that really sounds great!" as I was leaving each room.
That's all they wanted to hear. That's all you needed to say.
Kegger
R.I.P. 1/12/1966 - 6/1/2017
At least one thing that does come from this thread, we need to highlight the
members and swap rooms on the room list everyone gets when they come in
and state there will be DIY and Vintage in these rooms if one is seeking that.
I think that would help people looking for that and meeting more members.
(I personally love the new stuff from all the vendors and judge mine by it)
Heck I may even buy a piece or two that intigrates into my own that I want.
I plan on doing a room every year and doing my part to greet all the members,
sure it's a lot of work shlepping all the gear back and forth with all the issues/
wear and tear but I do enjoy it and want to do my part of creating a "space".
I wish more would/could join in with us an creating members rooms.
You could even try 6 or 8 members each bringing a piece to setup a system an
share the room cost/watching and greeting people. (each piece to create a system)
(Setup ahead of time of'course in the forums and get together at the fest with it)
Could be a lot of fun and great way of meeting some of the people around the fest.
members and swap rooms on the room list everyone gets when they come in
and state there will be DIY and Vintage in these rooms if one is seeking that.
I think that would help people looking for that and meeting more members.
(I personally love the new stuff from all the vendors and judge mine by it)
Heck I may even buy a piece or two that intigrates into my own that I want.
I plan on doing a room every year and doing my part to greet all the members,
sure it's a lot of work shlepping all the gear back and forth with all the issues/
wear and tear but I do enjoy it and want to do my part of creating a "space".
I wish more would/could join in with us an creating members rooms.
You could even try 6 or 8 members each bringing a piece to setup a system an
share the room cost/watching and greeting people. (each piece to create a system)
(Setup ahead of time of'course in the forums and get together at the fest with it)
Could be a lot of fun and great way of meeting some of the people around the fest.
jcmjrt
Addicted Member
There was a list of rooms at the check-in (stacks of them) which very clearly stated where the members' rooms were. You just didn't give it a chance if you left in an hour. I spent more than an hour in some rooms.
Some people went there looking for expensive gear and would have been disappointed if it were all vintage. AK is about trying to help everyone get a good listen at a variety of gear from vintage to diy to low priced new (madisound was there with kits) to expensive new. All you had to do was look and if you didn't see, ask....almost anyone.
SubWolfer
Well-Known Member
And y'all wana go back to the same hotel and use those same rooms? That was also one of my complaints. I felt the rooms were too small and cramped. more than 5 or 6 people in there was uncomfortable. I really was surprised by this high-end gear setup in tiny hotel rooms. I understand this was a last minute switch to the Embassy. But I can't understand the desire to go back there. I can only imagine how chaotic and crowded those rooms were on Saturday.
If the choice is between a nice hotel with crappy (acoustically speaking) rooms or a crappy hotel with crappy rooms I'll go with the former every time. Unless we start having the fest in something like an Extended Stay type hotel the rooms aren't going to get much better. At least these had a couch and some chairs to sit in.
Ray
MarkAnderson
Addicted Member
Good ****ing grief.
Kegger
R.I.P. 1/12/1966 - 6/1/2017
When we get the hotel to ourselves and spread out more it will be a little different,
doors can be open and things can be arranged better if it's not a last minute switch
like it was this year, but whatever hotel type situation your in the rooms will not be
very large, so yah it'll be a lot like it is in most respects, it's been this way for years
and when given a chance it does work out pretty well, most enjoy it quite a bit.
There really isn't much other way of doing it.
SubWolfer
Well-Known Member
That was a beautiful hotel, just not very well suited to an audio show due to the size of the rooms. That all I was saying.
I'm tired of trying to defend myself. I'm a noob and didn't have fun. Why? Obviously from what some of y'all have said it was because:
1.) I can't read clearly stated statements
2.) I lack social skills
3.) I put nothing into it
4.) I'm not worthy of an audio show
5.) I'm inpatient and didn't give it a fair chance
6.) The blame lies squarely at my feet
OK, I'm in the wrong. Its all my fault I didn't have fun. I blame myself for wasting my time and money. I get it. I hear y'all loud an clear. If I do go back, I think I should probably leave my user-name off my name-tag. Obviously I aint gona win no friends this way. Sorry for expressing my opinion and raining on your parade. I'm out of place (again). My bad.
How do I turn off my PMs?
I'm tired of trying to defend myself. I'm a noob and didn't have fun. Why? Obviously from what some of y'all have said it was because:
1.) I can't read clearly stated statements
2.) I lack social skills
3.) I put nothing into it
4.) I'm not worthy of an audio show
5.) I'm inpatient and didn't give it a fair chance
6.) The blame lies squarely at my feet
OK, I'm in the wrong. Its all my fault I didn't have fun. I blame myself for wasting my time and money. I get it. I hear y'all loud an clear. If I do go back, I think I should probably leave my user-name off my name-tag. Obviously I aint gona win no friends this way. Sorry for expressing my opinion and raining on your parade. I'm out of place (again). My bad.
How do I turn off my PMs?
EricC
Super Member
There are some things I do not like about this place but when it happens I step off the computer and go back to my everyday life rather then crapping on the lawn.
tentoze
Twangophile
Folks,
This has gone on for 11 pages and it started being mostly recycled positions about the middle of page 2.
SubWolfer,
I'm genuinely sorry you didn't enjoy the Fest. You are entitled to your opinion, just as every member is entitled to his/her opinion.
No one here is going to convince you that your opinion is invalid, and continuing to restate it is not going to convince anyone else that their's is invalid, whether it goes on for 11 or 1100 pages.
Why don't we let this fall off the bottom of the page now?
This has gone on for 11 pages and it started being mostly recycled positions about the middle of page 2.
SubWolfer,
I'm genuinely sorry you didn't enjoy the Fest. You are entitled to your opinion, just as every member is entitled to his/her opinion.
No one here is going to convince you that your opinion is invalid, and continuing to restate it is not going to convince anyone else that their's is invalid, whether it goes on for 11 or 1100 pages.
Why don't we let this fall off the bottom of the page now?
Wigwam Jones
Caesar non supra grammati
I would like to make just one last comment, and this may unfortunately seem like an attack - please believe me when I say I do not mean it that way...
"It" did not feel strange; "you" felt strange. Others walked into the same rooms you did, and believe me, very few of us 'knew' each other or very many of each other there. Some rooms I saw a few familiar faces - most of them, I saw none that I knew on sight, and probably it took a few minutes of jogging my damaged brain cells to remember them once they told me their screen names.
I walked into the same rooms you did. Did I feel like I was interrupting anything? No, not that I recall. Did I 'feel the love'? Not especially - but I also didn't feel like maybe I should go away. Was the gear too expensive for my budget? Yep, nearly all of it.
If it did not bother most of us, but it did bother you...does this tell you anything? Remember, it was the first fest for many, and lots were newbies just like you.
I do know something of what you seem to have felt, though. I recently went to a "Kiss Expo" here in Detroit. I drove quite a long way out to Romulus, MI, and paid $20 to attend the 'expo'. Upon entering the room, I discovered that the 'expo' was in fact ONE CONFERENCE ROOM which held about 20 8x10 tables. There was a stage where a tribute band would be playing later, four Kiss mannequins, and dealers at every table selling eBay close-out Kiss memorabilia that had remained unsold since the 1980's. About 20 dealers, about 15 fans, all of whom quite clearly knew each other. I took about five photos and left. What a waste of time and money - for me. The guys who were clearly into were - well - clearly into it. Get it?
I figured it was not that the people there were not into me - I just wasn't into them. Lesson learned, I kept steppin'. What I did not do was tell them - even politely - how lame their expo was and how I would not be back. Why? They like what they're doing. I didn't 'get it' but there you go - life's like that.
I guess the point here, if there is one, is that not everything is for everybody. People in this thread have been super nice to you for the most part, trying to jolly you into seeing that we're all a bunch of nice people and you'd like us if you gave us a fair shake. Well, we are a bunch of nice people. But maybe we ain't your kind of nice people. So shake the dust off your sandals and move on, brother. No harm, no foul, and I mean that in the nicest possible way.
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