NAD and failure rates/issues...

[thedelihaus]

What is it with NAD?

Such great sounding, looking and performing kit, but with niggling issues like fading displays, buttons that fall off, and more severe, a short shelf life?

I really like NAD stuff, but more and more of it I see ends up non-working.


So- this is NOT an anti-NAD thread. As I stated, I like the gear.

Just trying to figure out how a great company has so many hiccups in it's products.

Almost picked up a fairly recent NAD CDP (2-3 years old), but it wouldn't read burned discs. Later, with research, it was learned although the unit is advertized as able to read CD-Rs, many did not.

Another CDP- no display.

A third- spun too fast, then too slow.

A pre- missing buttons.

A late-90's receiver. Dropped channel.

Is it sloppy build quality? Or something more sinister?

 

[Raynald]

I used to work in an audio store in the mid 80s, early 90s. Our high end brands were such things as Levinson and Perreaux. We did huge numbers in lifestyle Bang & Olufsen. Our mid range lines included Audiolab, Quad, Bryston, Adcom, Arcam, Cyrus, etc. We had a very good selection of popular line including Yamaha, HK, Denon and NAD. Generally speaking, the NAD stuff sounded much better than the competition at the same price. Contrary to popular belief at the time, it was not as good as the higher end stuff, but it sounded good for the money. Reliability/build quality were other matters. Basically they were quite uneven. Some models were OK, others were abysmal. Any new model was approached with great trepidation. The launch of the entire "high end" Monitor Series was a fiasco. Very little worked, and if it did it was not for long.

Our return rate on NAD could be 10x what it was on Yamaha or HK, two very reliable products in those years. We could not believe NAD keep a good reputation and people kept buying it. Some salespeople said NAD stood for "Not Another Defect!".

As I saw it, the source of the problem was that they were among the first companies to go with subcontracting. The company itself was very small, just a design center and a marketing team. All of the assembly was done elsewhere, probably by the lowest bidder. Now that system is pretty universal, but back then it was clearly not up to the standards of the competition.

I am not anti NAD either. I recently acquired a 6100 tape deck. It feels like it was built by Mattel and you think the buttons will fall off in your hand, but the sound quality is stunning. I regularly amaze friends with it. It can sound better than anything they have heard, let alone a cassette. The fact that a lot of my tapes were made on a Revox B215 with a Mission PCM II plugged straight in with MIT interconnects does help a bit. The upside of working in an audio store!

 

[Pavioni]

Funny the mention of "something more sinister" - there has always been the nagging suspicion, not just by me, that NAD's breakout 20 series stuff was much higher build quality that what came later, and that this was a deliberate business plan.....hard to argue with the sound quality out of the box, but personal experience has taught me to never buy any used NAD gear other than the 20 series.

 

[analog addict]

I thought all the 70XX series was the same time frame....

...wasn't it? I have two 7045's and a 7080, and sonically, they're all great. Two of the three have a bad IC that runs the FM meters, but doesn't affect the FM reception.....:nono: And yeah, the buttons seem to be a weak point, two of the three also have broken buttons....:thumbsdn:

 

[SoCal Sam]

I got rid of all my NAD gear because of the same nagging suspicion you guys have. However, after getting a 7175PE that needed fixing, I decided to give the brand a second chance. I recently acquired two more broken 7175PE's and had them fixed. The first one had a bad DC offset pot, which is tiny and seemingly not up for the long haul. The second one had a bad relay and also a bad DC offset pot. The third one had a capacitor that fell off the board! I later found the missing cap inside, one of the legs was too short. This one also has bad DC pots. These pots cause a blowing and popping sound when playing and also that annoying thump on power on and off. The 7175PE when working is my favorite 75 wpc class receiver.

I recently acquired a non-working 7600. It would blow 10 amp fuses instantly on power up. Incredibly, my tech discovered one of the output transistors was missing the insulation. The previous owner told me it worked up until it quit so I guessing this escaped the factory QC.

So, my end-user experience confirms what you guys are saying.

 

[grateful]

I see no way that the uninsulated output was a factory defect. Someone removed it. Unit would never have worked at all. QC would have caught a unit blowing it's main fuse.

 

[SoCal Sam]

I see no way that the uninsulated output was a factory defect. Someone removed it. Unit would never have worked at all. QC would have caught a unit blowing it's main fuse.

That's what my tech said. Perhaps it was worked on by someone else...

 

[Pavioni]

Yep, 7175 was my favorite receiver ever- until the tuner died, the DC pots went and then it started blowing fuses. Kinda takes the fun out of it.....

 

[jhal]

I can only imagine what NAD would have been like if they had their gear made to higher quality standards. Of course, the price would have been much higher, but it probably would have made the equipment world class. By the way, I am not talking about making it fancier, just better quality parts like metal faceplates, knobs, and hardware. Heavier chassis, more attention paid to soldering and board assembly. Higher grade discrete components like caps. Stuff like that.

 

[RayW]

I'm still a fan. If you guys are looking to dump your NAD stuff...

I'm running a 7155 as my main 2ch receiver, have a 7045 on standby that gets moved around, and a 2140 amp that is running off the variable out of a Nakamichi CD player. I love 'em all and haven't had a problem yet. Maybe I should watch for it but I'll enjoy them until then.

Ray

 

[javajam12]

My brother has had a variety of NAD gear. 3300 Integrated, Monitor 5000 cdp,
542i cdp, C310, etc. He really likes it and I think it is good but he has had some troubles with most of it. His beloved 3300 has a channel fade but I think
his volume control needs cleaned. The new stuff seems a lot cheaper to me as
far as build quality. It's hard to buy stuff not made in China or Taiwan or in
Malaysia. The 542 cdp was only a year or so old when the drive quit working.
He had to spend $250 to get a new one put in! Ridiculous. I just see a huge
continuing trend of cheaply built mid fi stereo gear. It's a good thing I like the
vintage stuff so much. :yes:

 

[SoCal Sam]

I'm still a fan. If you guys are looking to dump your NAD stuff...

Ray

Not a chance! The 7175PE sounds great and IMO, is the best sounding (but not the best built) 75 wpc class receiver. When one breaks, I have a spares!

 

[SoCal Sam]

My brother has had a variety of NAD gear. 3300 Integrated, Monitor 5000 cdp,
542i cdp, C310, etc. He really likes it and I think it is good but he has had some troubles with most of it. His beloved 3300 has a channel fade but I think
his volume control needs cleaned. The new stuff seems a lot cheaper to me as
far as build quality. It's hard to buy stuff not made in China or Taiwan or in
Malaysia. The 542 cdp was only a year or so old when the drive quit working.
He had to spend $250 to get a new one put in! Ridiculous. I just see a huge
continuing trend of cheaply built mid fi stereo gear. It's a good thing I like the
vintage stuff so much. :yes:

The 7175PE is made in Japan.

 

[ultralc]

The only NAD I still have is a CD player that doesn't have display back light and have intermittent output RCA connectors. The only thing in this universe that is worse than NAD are Sony CD players, many of them don't read CD or skip badly. The other modern audio equipment I have that need work (recap to be more precise) are a late 80's Yamaha intergrated HT amp and a 2000 (yes, year 2000) Harman Kardon home theater receiver. Some of modern equipment really use crappy components such as the many junky Nichicon caps in the 2000 HK.

 

[legalalien]

Even though I'm now a Marantz guy I've pretty much owned NAD for much of the last 30 years and while I was aware of their quality control issues I was pretty fortunate with only a minor issue on the 522 CD player where the drawer wouldn't open (luckily it was repaired under warranty). I remember back in about 78' when I first saw/heard their first integrated amp the legendary 3020 I was bewildered, how could this cheap looking lightweight box possibly sound this good? After awhile I began to actually like the looks of the thing so spartan and unassuming it just made beautiful music and made no apologies about its appearance. Anyway I've always had a soft spot for their stuff and I wish I still had that old 3020 for a second system.

 

[Tripqzon]

I own a NAD 2200PE power amp. I was floored when I heard this amp for the 1st time. Plenty of power and sweet tight bass.

Although I recently purchased a new non NAD power amp, the 2200PE is not going anywhere. IMO it is a 100 watt per channel unit to be reckoned with.

 

[thedelihaus]

The sound quality of NAD gear has always been excellent.

I'm a fan of the sound, really.


Just wondering why so many units have issues- the displays going dim, the knobs/buttons that won't stay on, ect.


If the reliability was as good as the sound, I'd be an owner of more NAD gear myself.




Or.... maybe I'm just running across all the bad pieces?

 

[BrassTeacher]

The sound quality of NAD gear has always been excellent.

I'm a fan of the sound, really.


Just wondering why so many units have issues- the displays going dim, the knobs/buttons that won't stay on, ect.


If the reliability was as good as the sound, I'd be an owner of more NAD gear myself.




Or.... maybe I'm just running across all the bad pieces?

Hmmm, I have a lot of experience with older NAD stuff, I learned how to do repairs/mods by using their older gear.

After I get some sleep (I hope, only had 1/2 hour in the last 24), I'll make up a "guide" of sorts to old NAD gear, maybe some of you guys will find it useful when out on the hunt . . .

Don
BT

come to think of it, I should do the same for vintage Bang & Olufsen gear also

 

[Dan ʕ•ᴥ•ʔ]

Funny thing about NAD. I've owned several things by them over the years including a 3020 integrated, matching tuner, cassette deck, a L40 cd-receiver and a 7040PE receiver, which I use to this day. The only two pieces that ever gave me a prob was the cassette deck and the tuner, both of which had ongoing alignment problems. The L40's were suppose to be notoriously bad about dying, but mine had many years of hard use and never once acted up. Over the years I traded or sold everything except the 7040PE and I'd rather give up my ST-35 Dynaco than it...ugly beast that it is.

 

[Pilot]

The only NAD gear I've ever had is my 2200 which I bought new in 1985. It's very well made though they cut a lot of corners with the electronics. I did a bunch of mods to put those corners back and due to its excellent design its as good as you're likely to find anywhere. I would stack it up against a Krell any day. The only problem I encountered was its tendency to blow up if the output was shorted, even though it has all kinds of protection circuitry. Otherwise it's been going strong for the past 22 years in spite of my upgrades.

Bryan