No discernible difference

[invaderzim]

I've been wondering for awhile now when it comes to audio how often even if we don't notice an immediate difference between two pieces of equipment one of them will still be more pleasant to listen to over the long term.

I've made changes to my system that at the time I either didn't notice a difference or even at times thought was an improvement only to find that over time I was listening to it a lot less often and for shorter times. Something changed that my brain didn't like, I just didn't perceive the change.
I've swapped in tubes that I thought were a good improvement and then would quickly tire of listening to music and find other things to do.

 

[nj pheonix]

Certainly possible though not the only possible reason.
I imagine we all ponder our gear and sometimes wonder whether we took a step back (or possibly sideways).
If it at first blush is imperceptible to you , I'm thinking, chances are it's less likely to be the cause of your listening habits

 

[JoeESP9]

For many years I've been using and recommending the LTLT (long term listening test). This requires that you change only one thing at a time. If you make a change and over a period of a month or more you find yourself listening less, whatever you did was not an improvement. OTOH, if you listen more it was definitely an improvement. This has nothing to do with anything other than how much you listen. IMO listening time is the best "meter" of how pleasing a system is.

IME: The subconscious mind picks up things the conscious mind doesn't.

 

[nj pheonix]

Interesting ,
I can see where that process has merit.
I will say I generally know within a few days whether something is an improvement or not.
Often within a few hours.

 

[JoeESP9]

If you know within a few hours there are fairly gross differences. It's up to you to decide if they're good or bad.

 

[kirk57]

For many years I've been using and recommending the LTLT (long term listening test). This requires that you change only one thing at a time. If you make a change and over a period of a month or more you find yourself listening less, whatever you did was not an improvement. OTOH, if you listen more it was definitely an improvement. This has nothing to do with anything other than how much you listen. IMO listening time is the best "meter" of how pleasing a system is.

IME: The subconscious mind picks up things the conscious mind doesn't.

What he said^^^^

 

[45rpmspinner]

For many years I've been using and recommending the LTLT (long term listening test). This requires that you change only one thing at a time. If you make a change and over a period of a month or more you find yourself listening less, whatever you did was not an improvement. OTOH, if you listen more it was definitely an improvement. This has nothing to do with anything other than how much you listen. IMO listening time is the best "meter" of how pleasing a system is.

IME: The subconscious mind picks up things the conscious mind doesn't.

I do much the same, but in some cases for a longer period of time and with a different emphasis.
I plug in new pieces and run them until some aspect starts to nag at me. The difference being that I will listen regardless. There is no more-or-less listening.
If it's a big-ish "nag", the piece gets removed quickly. Smaller problems may take a good while to show themselves.

I've been using the same power amp for 6 months and I've no intention of removing it [zero complaints], thus my attention has turned to preamps.
I'm getting nice sound out of the current preamp, but there's definitely an impedance mismatch.
While the mismatch is relatively easy to deal with, it ultimately really bothers me.....so, I'm on the trail of another.

Given that everything else in the system lines up nicely at this point, I'm probably close to having a system I can sit with for a time.
I just need to find a preamp that melds well with everything else and doesn't have some [likely obscure] quality that irritates me over time.

Often a slow process, but historically speaking, I do tend to [eventually] get what I'm after.

 

[JoeESP9]

Please note, I said "a month or more". That's pretty much how I have progressed. I've participated on ABX and double blind testing and most of the time couldn't hear much if any difference. However, under an LTLT some pieces have made me listen more (keepers) and others less (discards).

 

[twiiii]

Every time I have changed some thing in my system I have noticed a very. discernible difference in at least one mode if not all. Speakers all sound different. tube amps sound different from each other as do SS amps. And of course SS amps sound different from tube amps. Pre-amps may sound the same with line inputs but phono sections always have a different taste. My Ampex 300 with 354 electronics sounded different than the one with 351 electronics, sounded different than ones with the old console electronics. I will admit 440C sounded pretty much the same and MR=70's were very much a like, but sounded totally different from AG series and ATR decks. My. 582 Z sounded different from my 682 series sounded different from Dragons. Its just like phono cartridges sound different and the same cartridges sound different with different arms most of the time. CD and DVD players are like phono cartridges it seems to me. The early machines, especially Sony were terrible, and Revox much superior, but thats my opinion. I preferred SX series Pioneer over early SS Marantz etc etc etc, and so it goes. What you have to do is train yourself to know what accurate sound is in the first place or you will be chasing your tail continuously looking for the latest and greatest, with out a standard to base your choice upon.. You don't have to spend big big bucks to get great sound. But you have to be able to recognize it when you hear it.

 

[eickmewg]

I think I must have "lead" ears. I have three tube amps, a KT88, a 6CA7, and an EL84-type. I also have two SS amps, a Hafler DH200, and a Forte 55. I have two DACs, a Topping D30 and a XiangShen DAC 01-A. I don't really think I can hear any significant difference among any of these components. If I had somebody hook up some combination behind my back, I doubt I could tell which amp or DAC was being used. Nonetheless, I enjoy rotating components.

 

[savatage1973]

I think what a lot of posts here are referring to is "listener fatigue". Things don't sound "bad"--in fact, they may sound excellent--but only for shorter periods of time, and that is (as mentioned) a function of the subconscious. It is also a function of "mental status"--mood, tiredness, stress, level of intoxication, etc. I listen to a diverse range of musical genres, and there are days that I just want to relax to some folk, jam to some classic rock, or bang my head to some hard-core metal or punk. Sometimes I start with one, and after two albums, make a dramatic change as the mood strikes me.

I too use the LTLT--change one thing at a time and live with it for a while before deciding whether it was a good choice or not, or making any other changes. Some stuff stays, some stuff goes, some stuff gets new "friends" to play with. I also hang on to whatever piece I swapped out, until I decide whether its "replacement" was a good move. Some people tend to sell gear to finance new gear, and many end up with "seller's remorse"--"I wish I had that back".

 

[SoCal Sam]

It happens. You have compared before and after and made an informed decision based on your personal preference. This means that any outcome, including what you are reporting is possible and valid.

 

[duncan]

... how often even if we don't notice an immediate difference between two pieces of equipment one of them will still be more pleasant to listen to over the long term. ... Something changed that my brain didn't like, I just didn't perceive the change....

This has been on my mind lately too. Sensation and perception aren't the same thing; and audio perception, particularly the perception of music, seems to be a damned complex thing. The admittedly reliable and repeatable blind A/B sort of testing tends to isolate the sensation-end of things, and excludes the sort of perception that comes only with extended listening.

Also I suspect that when we're consciously evaluating things, we ask ourselves for a sort of concentration that paradoxically can prevent us from perceiving music as well as when we're just letting ourselves enjoy it.

 

[musichal]

Add me to those who have found comparisons are best done long term. As others here have noted above, I've found it to be the best way.

 

[sqlsavior]

A/B switching is great for comparing the tonal balance between two units. And not much else, IME.

 

[twiiii]

Men are notorious for screwing up their hearing. They love to shoot with out wearing hearing protection. They work with loud tools , mow lawns with loud lawn mowers, work on their cars with the hood up and no protection or the join the Army, Navy or Marines and are around loud weapons , Helicopters or jet engines. Guess what the number one cause of hearing failure among air crews in the AAC and the USAF. Static on their communications gear. My dad made his own ear plugs and pads when flying in the AAC during WWII and was an AGG pilot. He could hear as well as I could and had perfect pitch to boot. I couldn't sneak around the house as a kid without him hearing me.. Except for ultra high frequencies he could hear as well as our dogs, it seemed. I have kittens and I watch their ears when they take turn on guard duty to alert me. When I had 3 cats you could tell what time day or night was b y who was taking over there next shift. Yes Kelly only had 3 legs. In this instance just after dinner I was on duty.