Not Getting that "Warm" Sound
- Thread starter SJC2574
- Start date
Glad it made a positive difference. The output tubes will see a different load but sometimes it works better and you may get better damping in the bass.
Poultrygeist
Lunatic Member
I've had lots of Chinese tube gear over the years and not once did I not get better sound after rolling the stock tubes. I'd swap out the small signal tubes first as they generally make the greatest improvement.
Some NOS tube brands are Sylvania, RCA, Amperex, Mullard, Telefunken. There are plenty of threads to search on AK and you can find great sellers on Bartertown if you decide to buy.
Sunny61
Active Member
"New old stock". Check out Brent Jesse, The tube depot, The tube store, etc.
SJC2574
New Member
Well all is not lost...I couldn't take it anymore. I knew this was not the sound people were after, so after a little looking around I purchased some JJ ECC803's and put them into my MS23B pre amp. WOW!!! Instant improvement in sound! Nice and warm with much more low end. Mids are not way out front like with the stock tubes. I am not 100% settled but this is the first time I have seen the tube sound. With this improvement so easy, I am curious at the potential of tube rolling the amp.
I'm a semi-old timer audio engineer and over the past 35 years I've seen the decline of high fidelity. It pleases me to no end to see old tube gear coming out of garages and closets and being restored! The engineers who designed this stuff back in the day were meticulous in how the units were to sound. The ultimate goal was flat frequency response across the entire audio spectrum, zero hum, and minimal distortion. The very definition of flat response is to accurately reproduce the music as it was recorded in the studio. It usually takes just a touch of bass or treble adjustment here and there to make a pleasing listening experience. Tube amps really shine when it comes to midrange presence. If the goal is thumping hard sub-bass, then tube amps are not the answer.
triode17
Super Member
I find that burning -in tubes takes 10-12 hrs. of intermittent use. Usually I play in two hour sessions. Sort of an annealing process for the tubes, hot, cold, hot, cold, etc. Then, without thinking about it, I will notice that the system sounds better. Fuller in the low end, clearer on the highs.
Also find that "warmth" occurs in the 200-300 Hz region, the upper Bass and male voice region develops a 'thicker' sound.
NOS is an acronym, meaning New Old Stock. Tubes that are vintage but have never been used. I would stick with what you have and get used to it. Then, try changing tubes. What you have is called an SE amp (single ended) in which one power tube produces the whole sound for that channel. After having designed and built one myself, I found that the brand of driver (preamp) tube affects the sound the most. Eventually, try replacing the 6N9P's with an American brand, vintage 6SL7.
Also find that "warmth" occurs in the 200-300 Hz region, the upper Bass and male voice region develops a 'thicker' sound.
NOS is an acronym, meaning New Old Stock. Tubes that are vintage but have never been used. I would stick with what you have and get used to it. Then, try changing tubes. What you have is called an SE amp (single ended) in which one power tube produces the whole sound for that channel. After having designed and built one myself, I found that the brand of driver (preamp) tube affects the sound the most. Eventually, try replacing the 6N9P's with an American brand, vintage 6SL7.
heightsmike
New Member
signal tubes...you mean the preamp tubes up front?
Poultrygeist
Lunatic Member
Preamp tubes and signal tubes are the same.
Blasty
Solder Ninja
Lack of warmth doesn't necessarily mean the tube amp isn't doing it's job. Tube amps can be made to sound like solid-state, and vice-versa. There are so many designs!
A lot of the characteristic "tube sound" that people talk about is heavily dependent on the output transformer and use of negative feedback (or no feedback, in the case of many single-ended amps). I don't know your amp to comment further, but those are factors.
And as others have mentioned, the Heresy and other Klipsch Heritage speakers can be a bit forward sounding. I like to call it "dynamic"
. I run their larger relatives, La Scalas, in too small a room and they definitely are.
For reference I built myself a pair of single-ended 6V6 amplifiers with the Ultra-Linear tap (which is a form of feedback) but otherwise no global feedback. Local feedback is used on the voltage amp stage, so not much "tubey" sound being had there in my case. These aren't very "warm;" just really clean sounding is what they are.
I can make them a bit "warmer" but expectedly slightly weaker by using adapters to "triode strap" the 6V6 - removing all feedback from the output stage. To be fair I have not personally heard Klipsch on any true SE triode amps which are supposed to be the reference for "tube sound."
Maybe none of this is helpful but thought I'd chime in a bit with what I've learned on this topic so far.
A lot of the characteristic "tube sound" that people talk about is heavily dependent on the output transformer and use of negative feedback (or no feedback, in the case of many single-ended amps). I don't know your amp to comment further, but those are factors.
And as others have mentioned, the Heresy and other Klipsch Heritage speakers can be a bit forward sounding. I like to call it "dynamic"
. I run their larger relatives, La Scalas, in too small a room and they definitely are.For reference I built myself a pair of single-ended 6V6 amplifiers with the Ultra-Linear tap (which is a form of feedback) but otherwise no global feedback. Local feedback is used on the voltage amp stage, so not much "tubey" sound being had there in my case. These aren't very "warm;" just really clean sounding is what they are.
I can make them a bit "warmer" but expectedly slightly weaker by using adapters to "triode strap" the 6V6 - removing all feedback from the output stage. To be fair I have not personally heard Klipsch on any true SE triode amps which are supposed to be the reference for "tube sound."
Maybe none of this is helpful but thought I'd chime in a bit with what I've learned on this topic so far.
The only Chinese signal tube that I've heard or used that sounded good was the 6N3. None of the other 6N(X) tubes did. They all sounded like a tin horn, thin, or microphonic, etc. I probably just got lucky with the 6N3's I had.
VetPsychWars
Active Member
Flip the absolute phase at the speaker terminals and see what happens.
