Onkyo vs Yamaha - Sound quality

genursus

New Member
Looking for a little help today. I recently upgraded my speakers to Klipsch 150's and couldn't be happier. I have a Pro-Ject Debut Carbon with acrylic platter and an Ortofon Red stylus. I decided to upgrade the receiver as well. I was using a 15 year Kenwood VR-507 receiver which actually had a PHONO input. I wasn't ready to spend over $750 on the receiver, my choices were between the new Onkyo TX-8160 and the Yamaha R-N602. My main concern was the phono quality. I do not use a cd player, the streaming options of both units appealed to me as well. I chose the Onkyo TX-8160.

On to my question - I'm a bit disappointed in the sound quality of the Onkyo TX-8160, specifically the phono input. The streaming quality is fantastic, but it actually makes the phono sound dull. I a/b'd a few LP's vs the stream from Spotify with the Spotify sounding better in all circumstances. I have a short time to return this purchase. Did I choose the wrong receiver? Any other suggestions? I have tried adding a sub and removing the sub, and fiddled with the Treble/Bass settings. I'm willing to spend the extra $200 on the Yamaha if the PHONO sound is better - I just need some experienced contributors here to point me in the right direction. I'm trying to build a nice sounding system for my home office which is approx 14x20.
 
You could just add an external phono preamp like this: https://store.uturnaudio.com/products/pluto-phono-preamp

Pluto is a low-noise phono preamp for moving magnet (MM) cartridges. It combines high-quality components and elegant circuit design to accurately boost your turntable’s signal at this crucial stage of amplification. Pluto’s RIAA network consists of WIMA film capacitors and precision resistors for detailed and distortion-free sound. It features a single high-performance gain stage and a subsonic filter to remove low-frequency noise - all housed within a steel enclosure that prevents interference

Pluto is built in Boston, MA and comes with a 3 year warranty.
 
It's been my experience that at least with newer receivers that the phono amp is the weak link. Even with newer intergrateds like the Yamaha A-Sx01 line, the phono stages aren't be-all-end-all by any means, and I know that receivers are generally not as good sounding as the integrateds. One option is try to find a vintage receiver with a good phono stage. But in your case, if you want the digital inputs, you'd probably just want to get a small phono-preamp - that will make the difference. There's quite a few good ones out there now for less than $200. The U-Turn, the Emotiva XPS-1, the Pro-Ject Phono Box, Cambridge 651 are all in that price range and are generally liked. Some folks like the Bellari and Yaqins as well. I'd test them out and pick which one you like.
 
Going the route of the external phono pre means that the analog section of the Onkyo receiver will be employed. Is it any good? I guess it's hard to say until tried, but a modern 2 channel receiver is going to be a collection of compromises, as the owner's above result with the built in phono section. The Pro-ject tt decent(I've got one) and actually costs more than the Onkyo.
 
I don't think you need Yamaha R-N602. I have R-N500, and it sounds great. Although I've never tried phono, but people say R-N500 phono input makes good noise. Sure, it's subjective. I believe you need to test it first.

R-N602 supports extra option such as ALAC, gapless play, MusicCast, and DSD 2.8 MHz / 5.6 MHz. But I don't think we need them all. Except gapless play.
 
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I am in the same boat Yamaha vs. Onkyo. I was coming from a 16 year old Yamaha RX 995V 5.1 that I was using as a 2-channel amplifier (Audio-Technica 120) was my main input source. That amplifier is super punchy and sounded amazing. The downside was that it would not engage the speakers at low volume (despite cleaning the pots).

Long story short I purchased a budget Onkyo 9010 from Amazon. I have decided to return it and I just purchased the Yamaha S501 from Crutchfield. I have not received the Yamaha yet so my fingers are crossed that it gives me the bass I'm looking for.
 
Any of you folks in the same boat would do well to consider the NAD C326BEE. It's an integrated with a transparent punchy sound. No phono section, but an outboard phono pre in this case would be a good combo. An open box unit from Spearit Sound can be had for under 400. I've owned 2 of these 326 amps, and they really do punch above their weight.
 
Any of you folks in the same boat would do well to consider the NAD C326BEE. It's an integrated with a transparent punchy sound. No phono section, but an outboard phono pre in this case would be a good combo. An open box unit from Spearit Sound can be had for under 400. I've owned 2 of these 326 amps, and they really do punch above their weight.
I just ordered one on Audiogon from SPearit $379 for a factory refurb! I do not have a stand alone phono pre amp, however my Audio Technica TT has a built in one that I will use in the interim.

I like that it has two Sub outs, I hope to be able to run this in tone defeat mode combined with a subwoofer to push the low end.
 
It's a great price, you simply can't go wrong. But what really made my jaw drop was the excellent sound which was clearly superior to the old Denon AVR I had set up in 2 channel mode.
 
Finally! The NAD C326BEE is the answer! I just received the amplifier yesterday. O my goodness is this an improvement. The sound is far superior to my older RXV995 and the three new budget amplifiers that I tried out.

Historically I would tweak the bass and treble to my liking to get a punchy sound. I'm running the NAD in tone defeat and it is impressive, balanced but still with that nice punch.

What a deal!
 
Yeah, the 326 really does perform well beyond the price point, I've tried several different speakers with no bad results. Glad it worked out so well for you!
 
Yeah, the 326 really does perform well beyond the price point, I've tried several different speakers with no bad results. Glad it worked out so well for you!
Looks like I will be auditioning a pair of Unity Audio floor speakers soon. A friend of mine has had them since they were new in the 90's but has not used them in a decade. He is going to sell them to me for next to nothing if I like them.
 
Hehehe, it never ends! I didn't need the 326 when I bought it, but I enjoy tinkering with various finds on craigslist, etc. I've found some pretty nice speakers, and didn't want to put them in the main system,so...
 
That is really great! I'm glad you are happy with your system and it looks very nice! That NAD looks like a nice buy.
 
I don't think you need Yamaha R-N602. I have R-N500, and it sounds great. Although I've never tried phono, but people say R-N500 phono input makes good noise. Sure, it's subjective. I believe you need to test it first.

R-N602 supports extra option such as ALAC, gapless play, MusicCast, and DSD 2.8 MHz / 5.6 MHz. But I don't think we need them all. Except gapless play.

That is very interesting! I checked the specs and the R-N500 has exactly the same amp specs as the R-N 602, and the specs are from 20 to 20k, not 40 to 20K as some folks have stated. The 602 also has Ethernet and Wi Fi plus Bluetooth. The price differential is large, $350 for the R-N500 against $600 for the 602. My gut feeling is if I have the funds I'll go for the 602, but if I can't get there, the 500 will be OK. I'm going to stick with Yamaha because I have been extremely satisfied with their quality and performance to price performance.
 
After even more checking and watching videos, the Musiccast system of the R-N601 is an important consideration. The R-N 601 can transmit to wireless speakers, for example on my deck. Yamaha has a model 030 speaker that sells for $200. You do need an electrical outlet available. There is another speaker by Yamaha that looks like a small picture holder that can be stood anywhere with a very small footprint. You can use your smartphone, iPad, PC, etc to control the R-N601 using musiccast and pump the sound to where you want it without having to snake wires through walls.
Lots of possibilities there.

The R-N602 has enough inputs to allow you to add an external phono amp if the included phono amp isn't up to your liking.

As for me, I do have a real estate problem in that my system is in my living room credenza and beginning to look like a jammed parking lot! The R-N602 is the same physical size as my A-S500 amp, so replacing the A-S500 will not take up any more room, but I will be able to remove my Grace digital tuner and audiomachine B2 Bluetooth receiver, giving more space there. The A-S500 and Audiomachine B2 will move to my study. If we do get that condo, the study system could be eliminated and I would use the Musiccast system as needed.

By the way, my experience with Yamaha has been excellent, so I will stick with them.:music:
 
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