Ortofon 2M Red to Denon DL 103 to ?

GD70

AK Subscriber
Subscriber
So I am really enjoying the 2M Red. I wanted to move up to a MC cart and bought the Denon from an AKer and the improvement was immediate and surprising. The detail and clarity improvements were like wiping off a foggy pair of glasses! My co-worker is an audiophile. He's the one I mentioned when I got the Cotter SUT for free at a yard sale, that worked in Mitch Cotters shop in Mt.Vernon NY back in the early 80's. He's been promoting Sumiko carts, he has one, though I don't remember which one. I've been eyeing the Blue Point 2 and the slightly more expensive Blue Point Special Evo III. Will either of these be as big an improvement as the Denon was over the 2M Red, or a lot of money for a small return in performance?
Glenn
 
I would be surprised if either of the Sumikos would be as big a step up from the Denon as the Denon was from the Ortofon 2M Red. More detail can be found with fine-line stylus shapes, but they are hard to get right with respect to alignment, whereas the spherical Denon tip is hard to get wrong. That, plus the law of diminishing returns, plus entering the realm of preference, makes it likely that a similar jump in performance will take more money, and some luck.
 
I often wondered about those two sumiko carts. Buy won Glenn and make sure you have it installed by Saturday so as I can hear it.
 
I would be surprised if either of the Sumikos would be as big a step up from the Denon as the Denon was from the Ortofon 2M Red. More detail can be found with fine-line stylus shapes, but they are hard to get right with respect to alignment, whereas the spherical Denon tip is hard to get wrong. That, plus the law of diminishing returns, plus entering the realm of preference, makes it likely that a similar jump in performance will take more money, and some luck.
Thanks sql. Sort of what I expected to hear, but didn't want to hear. So the next question would be what cart in the same price range as the Sumikos may give me a noticeable performance jump, if any at all?
 
I often wondered about those two sumiko carts. Buy won Glenn and make sure you have it installed by Saturday so as I can hear it.
Saving my pennies!
Bring a couple albums to hear on the 910's and a few others.
 
I had the same experience. I used, among others, a 2M Red. I really liked it but when I tried the 103 I never looked back.
 
I often wondered about those two sumiko carts. Buy won Glenn and make sure you have it installed by Saturday so as I can hear it.
Really? You will have your drivers back from Mr. So and you will finally be able to listen to your 1590/2 needing a /2 on the label only it seems and you are going to roll over to Glenn's for a listen? What no desire to crank your own speakers? Leave em playing while you are gone so they break in before you come come with the 910 sound fresh in mind to compare it to your speakers. Keep us posted.

Glenn, there are family sound differences in cartridges that at the higher levels will all sound good, preferences based on your likes and dislikes. For example, my 23R is a faster and has higher highs it seems compared to the sound of the Black. But the Koetsu has fabulous midrange which seems to make one think the frequency extremes aren't quite what they are. You will need to listen around.

Since we have been having out audio gigs, folks in the group have bought the SAE LOMC, ZYX, Ortofon MC20, MC30 Super, AT33EV, 20X2 and others based on what they heard at these outings and desires to step up. This is a few years and a number of folks not like any of us are rolling in it.
 
Blue, I'm bringing the cabinets of the 1590's down to Glenn so he can refinsh them. As far as placing a /2 on the cabs, you have me confused with someone else, mine are the /2's.
 
What kind of change from the DL-103 are you aiming to achieve?
Maybe a bit more detailed mids and highs, without sacrificing bass. What got me thinking about this was listening to a track on vinyl, and a digital version of same. The digital version brought out more back ground nuances, a bit more depth and subtle details.
The 103 produces very nice bass, and details far better than the 2M red, but after hearing the digital version of the particular track, I was surprised what I was missing.
 
Blue, I'm bringing the cabinets of the 1590's down to Glenn so he can refinsh them. As far as placing a /2 on the cabs, you have me confused with someone else, mine are the /2's.
opps, I guess I did. someone grabbed some 1590s and all parts are /2 parts except the cabinet (which was used on the early /2) and the label on the crossover. There have been a few 1590 stories floating around for some lucky AKers lately.

Glenn would be the guy for a refinish of speakers. His work is nice. After that will the 1590s hang out for a day while you guys evaluate them compared to his boxes?
 
Maybe a bit more detailed mids and highs, without sacrificing bass. What got me thinking about this was listening to a track on vinyl, and a digital version of same. The digital version brought out more back ground nuances, a bit more depth and subtle details.
The 103 produces very nice bass, and details far better than the 2M red, but after hearing the digital version of the particular track, I was surprised what I was missing.

For more depth and detail there is actually two possible improvements, a better DL 103 made by the ZU company. The ZU company modifies the 103's cartridge body to open up soundstage increasing depth and detail, the range of the cart reaches 45hkz. The cartridge is called a ZU / DL 103 Mk. II and there are different grades to choose from. The other improvement for separation and detail would be a 3/8th's inch cork platter mat. Marley sounds soooo good....
 
For more depth and detail there is actually two possible improvements, a better DL 103 made by the ZU company. The ZU company modifies the 103's cartridge body to open up soundstage increasing depth and detail, the range of the cart reaches 45hkz. The cartridge is called a ZU / DL 103 Mk. II and there are different grades to choose from. The other improvement for separation and detail would be a 3/8th's inch cork platter mat. Marley sounds soooo good....
Interesting. May try the cork mat first, a lot cheaper.
I sent Zu an email to see if they do mods on carts sent in by existing owners.

Thanks!
Glenn
 
When they're done and I go to pick them up, I don't think that'll bring the drivers with me. I'm going to put the drivers back in and put the crossovers back in at home. I just received the grills today from reliable hardware. They did an absolutely fantastic job. I'll post pics when I get a chance. I'm off to work shortly.
 
Zu got back to me and they do the mods to existing owners carts and pretty reasonable too!
I think I'll go for this. Seems like big improvements for far less $$ than the Sumikos I was looking at.
Thanks for the info Djcoolray!
 
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