oversampling vs no oversampling vs sound quality

Part of it depends on your definition of "oversampling"--to me, oversampling is a totally different term than "upsampling or upscaling". Anyways (to me, at least) oversampling is re-reading or re-evaluating the digital signal any number of times for error correction purposes prior to conversion to an analogue output signal. Again (to me), the definition of upsampling/upscaling is basically converting something that isn't there to a hi-rez format. If it is a live recording from the late 60's or early 70's that was laid down on a R2R tape, you can only get what is on the tape, no matter how hard you try. Same for video--a 1960's episode of "I Love Lucy" is not going to look or sound any better on a truly "hi-rez" HT system than it did on the old console CRT TV that you originally watched it on. It basically all rests on the ORIGINAL SOURCE--you can re-master, re-engineer all you want, but if it ain't there to start with, you can't extract any more--you are just "altering" it. Just my two cents...
 
OK savatage I understand what you are saying.
So I need to study up on the process of oversampling
and maybe how to defeat it in a CDP.
the other reply was of no help.
 
it would be very difficult to remove whatever oversampling was designed into a circuit.
diyaudio has hundreds of threads on adding oversampling, typically by stacking,
say tda1541/43s on top of each other. as I recall there were kits to do this.

I haven't looked into this but there are probably several oversampling techniques
and unwinding them will be different. stacked DAC chips vs upsampling.

the theory behind doing this is good but getting there is difficult unless you dive
a whole lot deeper and get to the signal processing levels and see what decisions
were made

I went the other way, I have two CDPs that don't have a modern chip-based DAC
(discrete components doing the digital-to-analog conversion)
and I will start with recapping then maybe (big maybe) add a digital output.

In effect we are approaching the same goal but from different directions.
 
The easiest way to avoid oversampling (if there is any to begin with) is to send the digital signal from your CDP's SPDIF output to a NOS DAC. Muse 4xTDA1543 DAC can be had for $50-60, probably the least expensive way into NOS with a CDP. The sound quality will be affected, you may like it (or not).
 
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so the muse does not oversample?
it takes from cdp dig out then d/a not ovrsmpld then to audio out rca to pre.
so you hear what no ovrsmpl sounds like?
 
this is one test, to bypass the oversampled signal using 4x 1543, and compare it to
a DAC that is presumably not oversampled. best if the external DAC also uses
a 1543 but there are other variables at play.
 
so the muse does not oversample?
it takes from cdp dig out then d/a not ovrsmpld then to audio out rca to pre.
so you hear what no ovrsmpl sounds like?

Yup. The TDA1543 isn't the best chip out there but it'll give you a good idea what NOS sounds like w/o breaking the bank. It doesn't have a USB input but you don't need it for playing CDs. If you have basic soldering skills you can probably replace the caps and do other mods that will bring additional improvements, I'm pretty sure I came across several Muse DAC mod threads on the internets but the details are escaping me. There are technical reasons why NOS went out of fashion, google for "lavry oversampling", in the first hits there are a couple of somewhat technical articles by Dan Lavry of Lavry Engineering about related concepts.
 
IMO, a NOS DAC playing 16/44.1 content would sound like ass. A NOS DAC being fed a higher sample rate source, or upsampled by the exceptional filters in HQPlayer could in theory be some of the best sound on the planet.

One of the most important parts of a DAC are the filters and oversampling it does before converting to Analog. Of course there are other important parts like clocking, power supply and analog section but the filtering and oversampling happen first.

With a NOS DAC you really want to do that first part someplace prior.


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I'm just not sure why you would want to defeat "oversampling". I was an "early adopter" of the CD format in the 80's, and I still have my first CDP which has no oversampling, and it is as susceptible to a footfall or scratched disc as a TT. The reason that oversampling was introduced was to "buffer" playback to make them less sensitive to tracking issues--think CD Walkmans for portable use. I'd be much more concerned about the actual DAC chipset and analogue output stage (preamplifier stage after the conversion) than dumping oversampling. Just wondering why you want to go "backwards"???
 
Simple answer is 'it depends'

I know that is not the answer most look for... I have 2 separate boxes from Audio-gd , one is an Upsampler receiving signal from source (CD/File) then doing one of 4 things (pass-through, 48K, 96 or 192 Upsampling) depending on setting.

The other is a DAC with filters and Oversampling receiving signal from Upsampler above ^. It can do one of three things (2x, 4x or 8x Oversampling) depending on setting.

Different sources (CD/File) will sound minutely better or worse depending on the combination of the above settings - Not something IMO worth being too particular over
 
its not that I "want" to do anything. I read about non oversampling/upsampling and how good it sounds and
would like to hear it myself.
if its no good fine I would just like to know why and then be done with it.
Seems like everyone here is against it so I guess I should be to. No objections from me.
Some guy said to get a muse dac. I ordered one. supposed to be non oversampling so I'll see.
I have 2 dacmagics too just for otboard DACs on cdps. Just trying different things to see how sound is affected.
So Its out with the no oversampling then.
So far the dacmagics are the winners. And a few new and vintage CDPs.
Also incoming is a lampizator DAC kit to play with.
 
Not sure why or even if it is 'real' but my experience is a 128 mp3 sounds better when Upsampled to 96K or even 192 -- cannot prove it tho :)
 
Despite of some expressed beliefs upsampling or oversamlling is basically the same thing that's called interpolation which is adding additional samples inferred from the original ones. The main reason for OS it makes it easier to design anti-imaging filters downstream of the DAC chip that suppress ultrasonic frequencies in the spectrum which are always there being an artifact of DA. A classic NOS DAC requires a steep low-pass filter and steep filters tend to negatively affect SQ. With OS the ultrasonics are pushed higher in the spectrum and can be dealt with with a gentle filter that has lower impact on SQ. Many NOS designs omit the filter completely as technically the speakers and human ear are low-pass filters, while true non-linearity in the ultrasonic range in amplifiers and other audio components downstream of the DAC can lead to audible inter-modulation distortions and this is the main issue with using NOS w/no output filters. So one's success with NOS also depends on the rest of the gear.

The Muse DAC I mentined doesn't have any jitter correction, so likely it will benefit from an external jitter corrector such as iFi SPDIF iPurifier especially when used with lesser CD transports.
 
no further upsampling oversampling info needed
Thread closed.
thanks all for the info . could not have made the decision without AK.
 
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Despite of some expressed beliefs upsampling or oversamlling is basically the same thing that's called interpolation which is adding additional samples inferred from the original ones. The main reason for OS it makes it easier to design anti-imaging filters downstream of the DAC chip that suppress ultrasonic frequencies in the spectrum which are always there being an artifact of DA. A classic NOS DAC requires a steep low-pass filter and steep filters tend to negatively affect SQ. With OS the ultrasonics are pushed higher in the spectrum and can be dealt with with a gentle filter that has lower impact on SQ. Many NOS designs omit the filter completely as technically the speakers and human ear are low-pass filters, while true non-linearity in the ultrasonic range in amplifiers and other audio components downstream of the DAC can lead to audible inter-modulation distortions and this is the main issue with using NOS w/no output filters. So one's success with NOS also depends on the rest of the gear.


The Muse DAC I mentined doesn't have any jitter correction, so likely it will benefit from an external jitter corrector such as iFi SPDIF iPurifier especially when used with lesser CD transports.
so the muse dac was a waste of money? and will not reveal affect of non oversampling?
 
so the muse dac was a waste of money? and will not reveal affect of non oversampling?

What did I say that made you think that? It is a NOS DAC and it will let you get a feel of NOS sound as cheaply as possible if that's what you're after, however being a simple device it doesn't have any jitter correction circuitry, so using an external jitter corrector between the CDP and the Muse can improve the SQ depending on how jittery your CDP is, this has nothing to do with OS/NOS. I suggest you try the Muse first and if you like it overall you may experiment with adding a jitter corrector later. There are NOS DACs out there that will sound better than the Muse but they start at 20x the cost.
 
What did I say that made you think that? It is a NOS DAC and it will let you get a feel of NOS sound as cheaply as possible if that's what you're after, however being a simple device it doesn't have any jitter correction circuitry, so using an external jitter corrector between the CDP and the Muse can improve the SQ depending on how jittery your CDP is, this has nothing to do with OS/NOS. I suggest you try the Muse first and if you like it overall you may experiment with adding a jitter corrector later. There are NOS DACs out there that will sound better than the Muse but they start at 20x the cost.
Sorry . I thought you said I ALSO will need that all that spdif stuff for the muse dac. My apologies for the misunderstanding.
The Muse is incoming anyway and I will see what it does. thanks for that idea.
I have no idea what spdif is. Jitter correctors are for sale?
thanks for the help.
 
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