Peculiar anomoly with Toyota drive..?

[50nstillhifi]

So recently we (the spousal we ) purchased a Toyota Corolla S. Its a 2014 model but in excellent condition as a "certified used vehicle". I did the leg work of checking CarFax and accompanying maintenance records.. did not see anything unusual. In fact, past maintenance was timely and routine!

Now I am more of the SUV type, specifically Jeep model, so I was less than enthusiastic at picking up a compact vehicle as a get-around-town.. but the Toyota look has appeal so I relented.

Now here's the issue: Motoring about town at local speeds, I rather enjoyed the feel of the vehicle and its rather impressive response, given its a 4 banger. But at highway speeds, I must say I was rather impressed as well... until it felt as if the steering had "a mind of its own"?

The negative "sensation or feed back" is the steering following or "correcting" at the very slightest change of pavement or even stripes in the road. Given I am used to a cushiony ride, per the Jeep class, and never felt so much road under the seat... I am wondering is this normal.. part of the technology.. or a symptom of a perhaps other issue, IE: tires, alignment.. or traction control?

Any thoughts.. particularly from other "Toy drivers"?

 

[Bob Price]

I am not a Toyota owner, but I do know a thing or two about them. Unfortunately, the days of road feedback are over at the lower end of the automotive spectrum (I do not mean that in an insulting way), it is just that most modern cars are moving to electric assist, and fully electric linear actuators that isolate what you feel in the front wheels. It should not wander on the road though.

 

[Smallies]

'07 Rav4 here. Mine has electronic power steering and I don't like it. Hard to keep a straight line. My car was stealer maintained and found out how bad they suck. Tried to do my first oil change at 54k when my Mom gifted it and wouldn't you know it was the original filter and it wouldn't come off. The oil was as bad or worse than my 1979 Jeep wagoneer.This was a couple years ago so it was way past time for a new one. Mobil1 synthetic now and of course I don't wait 5 thousand miles.

 

[davidb1]

Check the reviews on tire rack for the current tires. IIRC, I noticed some of that behavior on a rental unit.

 

[Danddd]

I am not a Toyota owner, but I do know a thing or two about them. Unfortunately, the days of road feedback are over at the lower end of the automotive spectrum (I do not mean that in an insulting way), it is just that most modern cars are moving to electric assist, and fully electric linear actuators that isolate what you feel in the front wheels. It should not wander on the road though.

Not just low end, all cars now have the electric steering and I can tell you, BMW, the ultimate driving machine, now is just a pimped out Toyota. I would be tempted to check out a Mazda 3 or CX5 for sporty driving.

 

[Bob Price]

With all due respect Danddd, I disagree, I think the MAJORITY of modern cars have gone to some type of complete electric or electric assist. I have a 2015 Dodge with old school hydraulics sitting in my driveway at this moment. I could be mistaken, but my reasoning for this statement is that I do not think electric steering is fast or strong enough to operate safely at 180 miles per hour.

 

[Bob]

Having driven long distances with 2 different Toyotas - I don't find them following road tracks nor are they different than
other similar class cars. However, each mfg has similar driving characteristics and different classes drive differently.
suggest you
1. try asking a neighbor/worker with a car from the same generation what they think after driving your car
2. Jeeps and equivalents have a whole different dynamic and you may find Toyotas just different not defective or poorly designed
I drove a Corvette for a while and I found it twitchy compared to my Nissan (same model used by CA LEOs as a chase car)
3. it may need alignment "tune-up". from a long time ago I remember dialing in more caster to have that snap-to-straight-line feeling
4. also a lot of road feel and tracking is tire dependent and within a set of tires also PSI-dependent.

for me that corvette that hunted each and every imperfection in the road kept me focused on staying alive.

 

[Bob Price]

Bob does make a good point, caster can make a huge difference to steering wheel return and tracking. Camber can do it as well but normally causes abnormal tire wear. Caster can be out of spec causing road hunting and all sorts of tracking and feedback issues. But reading the first post, I assume the alignment and tires are within spec. Also, I do recall performing alignments on a few of the first gen electric steering system cars back 10 years ago in my master technician days. There always seemed to be unusual alignment procedures that technicians did not know about such as special sub-frame alignment pins, rear steering locking pins, and similar things to the actuators themselves. This caused a bunch of comebacks and angry customers. 10 years later and I am no longer involved with that level of the automotive industry, I can only assume they have ironed out all those sort of things?

 

[El Pee]

I think the OP would benefit from some new, higher quality tires.

 

[Lauri]

Not just low end, all cars now have the electric steering and I can tell you, BMW, the ultimate driving machine, now is just a pimped out Toyota. I would be tempted to check out a Mazda 3 or CX5 for sporty driving.

I now drive a mk1 Mazda 3 at work and it is one of the worst I've ever driven. Before that I drove mk1 and mk2 Focus's and there's no comparison. Is the newer one a big improvent?
Driving a 80s design BMW with a steering box instead of a rack, I don't understand how they manage to create cars with worse feel 20 years later, but they can. Easily.

 

[50nstillhifi]

Wow..... and thanks "community" as all of you have made positive contributions to this ... I suppose dilemma.

1st.. "Bob", I think you have made a valid point in supposing that the difference I feel may be in expectation(s) rather than valid and "to-spec" vehicle performance. In fact, on one Toyota site I had reviewed a poster had made the same argument (friendly this is).

2nd.. "Bob Price", I believe you are onto something as well (experienced based) that may be recurring and perhaps more prevalent than we want to accept. Some techs, either through poor training or just lack of "experience", can't or don't know how to maintain these vehicles.... remember tech manuals ? I have been told its all computer software now... hmmm?

3rd.. "El Pee", this is my first "easy fix-it plan", to get a good set of tires (premium) , and a certified wheel alignment.

Thanks to all of your input, I see I am on course and have good guidance to base it on. I will keep all posted in future developments.. how many months this may take!

 

[Farmhand]

I drive an '06 Corolla and haven't noticed any steering weirdness. Sounds like a tire thing.

 

[Wildcat]

If they are still factory original tires then without question, I would replace them. They aren't always the best tires available--they likely buy them to a price point. Not to mention, if they are still the original tires, they are probably near being half worn by now.

My other half came my way with a crappy Malibu early on when we first met, and that car had a nasty, noisy ride. Turns out they were crappy Firestone tires that the factory had put on. Got them replaced with better tires from Tire Rack and it transformed the noise and the ride (but not the car--it still sucked). Likewise, we were in a bind around 2010, and my CR-V was in dire need of tires. Not waiting for a Tire Rack deal, I wound up trusting a Belle Tire sale on some Toyo Extensa radials. Without a question, those were the absolute worst tires I ever owned. They had awful traction, slipping at half throttle in the rain, slipping around wet corners, and chirping away from an intersection when crossing the painted pedestrian crossing stripes. It rode like the car was on cement donuts. I felt every single pebble in the road, and they would sometimes toss the front around when on grooved pavement or in ruts, more so than other tires I'd ever had on it. I finally got tired of the lousy ride and replaced them with some better tires. Got my "old" ride, handling and noise back, and steering was more predictable. Like it used to be, prior to the Toyos.

So yes, the tire can change the character of the ride dynamics, more than you'd think. And get that alignment--nothing will tear up brand new tires like a wheel being out of alignment. Don't ask how I know.

 

[50nstillhifi]

If they are still factory original tires then without question, I would replace them. They aren't always the best tires available--they likely buy them to a price point. Not to mention, if they are still the original tires, they are probably near being half worn by now.

My other half came my way with a crappy Malibu early on when we first met, and that car had a nasty, noisy ride. Turns out they were crappy Firestone tires that the factory had put on. Got them replaced with better tires from Tire Rack and it transformed the noise and the ride (but not the car--it still sucked). Likewise, we were in a bind around 2010, and my CR-V was in dire need of tires. Not waiting for a Tire Rack deal, I wound up trusting a Belle Tire sale on some Toyo Extensa radials. Without a question, those were the absolute worst tires I ever owned. They had awful traction, slipping at half throttle in the rain, slipping around wet corners, and chirping away from an intersection when crossing the painted pedestrian crossing stripes. It rode like the car was on cement donuts. I felt every single pebble in the road, and they would sometimes toss the front around when on grooved pavement or in ruts, more so than other tires I'd ever had on it. I finally got tired of the lousy ride and replaced them with some better tires. Got my "old" ride, handling and noise back, and steering was more predictable. Like it used to be, prior to the Toyos.

So yes, the tire can change the character of the ride dynamics, more than you'd think. And get that alignment--nothing will tear up brand new tires like a wheel being out of alignment. Don't ask how I know.

Thank you... "Wildcat".. your advice is well taken about the tires!

 

[50nstillhifi]

Well..... I have addressed one of the issues discussed and the remedy recommended.... tires.

I purchased a set of Yokohama tires, H-rated, and had them placed on the rear of the vehicle as procedure per the tire installer. He agreed the removed set were "had" and said the new pair are installed on the rear and the back moved to the front. Seemed like sound advice, and the rear set were in much better shape and a quality tire (Hankook H-rated).

Result (s):

1. The off center and steering "wander"..... gone !
2. The often inconsistent and very unnerving drift, caused by what I thought to be the "active traction"..... gone !
3. Cornering and lean, to include the ABS engagement caused by tire slippage..... gone !
4. Overall confidence and road feel for the improved traction and performance.... excellent !

I believe, in conclusion, several posters were quite accurate in their assessment. It was the worn or inadequate tires, dominating the poor performance and handling of the vehicle. This in turn caused the "vehicle suspension assist" to overcompensate for both steering and traction. Something I (the driver) felt as "road wandering".

This of course, should give us all pause where active steering controls seem to be malfunctioning,... and they are actually operating out-of-spec due to a support issue (tires).

Well... thanks all, and now I and the wife can "motor the toy" with confidence!

 

[Wildcat]

Excellent! I'm glad it was something simple like a set of tires.

I just picked up a used car back in November and I'm still getting used to all the fancy stuff--ABS, vehicle stability assist, etc. I do have to say that when we had several inches of snow in December, it cut through it like butter. Even if I take off fast during a turn, the stability system kicks in. It is great to have, but we have to "assist" it by giving it a good set of tires to work with.