Pioneer SX-1250 vs Kenwood KR-9600

Discussion in 'Solid State' started by EchoWars, Apr 9, 2003.

  1. EchoWars

    EchoWars Hiding in Honduras

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    Just got done playing with both, thought I'd share a few observations concerning differences.

    The Pioneer SX-1250 is Kim G's unit that blew itself up. The KR-9600 is one that I have just received from an eBay sale.

    Mechanical Construction: The Pioneer is ultra clean inside, at least on the top side. All the components mounted on the top side of the frame are covered with a steel shield, which may or may not be useful. The entire FM section (RF and IF) are shielded, being mounted on the squeaky-clean top frame assy. Considering that the front half of the receiver cover is wood, Pioneer engineers may have thought it necessary. The underside is where the ugly comes out, but it still is a much cleaner than most.

    The Kenwood is butt-ugly inside - top and bottom, but wire routing is logical and reasonably easy to follow. Rather than have the entire FM section shielded, only the RF section is shielded. Shielding of the remainder is probably not necessary since the 9600 has a steel cover.

    Opening up the cover on the 1250 is like popping the hood on a new Acura to peek at the motor. The Kenwood, on the other hand, is all business and makes few concessions to internal appearance. Kinda like opening up a Tektronics oscilloscope.

    Disassembly is definately easier with the Pioneer...the core boards (amps, protection board, and power supply regulator) all are connected with plugs. Plugs are great for servicing, but tarnish over time and really should be cleaned every five years or so, especially the ones carrying high current (cleaned the male pins on Kim G's with Brasso and a Q-Tip, and sprayed with DeOxit on reassembly). The Pioneer uses solder and wire-wrap for other boards.

    The Kenwood uses a combo of old-fashioned soldering and the dastardly wire-wrap. Of course, the wire wrap makes an ideal connection but removing a board is a nighmare (if indeed it must be completely removed...access can usually be gained without complete removal). Heat-sinking looks adequate for both.

    Electrical and Electronic Design: Pioneer has pulled no punches in the design of the SX-1250. The transformer (a toroidal) is nearly as large as the one in my 700M, and it uses 88,000µf of filtering for both channels along with a soft-start circuit to prevent power switch failure due to inrush current. The FM section is fitted with a 5-Gang variable cap, two RF amp sections, one RF mixer, and four IF ceramic filters, identical to the Kenwood. The overall FM design of both is quite similar.

    (Note: Although the circuits used in the Pioneer are pretty standard stuff looking at them from the eyes of a year 2003 critic, in the late 70's some of this was cutting edge.)

    The Pioneer uses a pretty straightforward design for preamp and tone amp. The phono amp (there is only one) uses a bipolar input rather than the usual FET input, and the entire preamp assembly is capacitor coupled from stage to stage. The high and low filters are active style using an emitter follower, wheras the Kenwood uses a passive setup (no matter anyway...no one uses these things). The only drawback of Pioneer's active design is that the standard emitter follower leaves a bit to be desired as far as linearity goes. The low voltages are all regulated, and the power amp stage is well thought out with only the minimum number of stages to get the job done. Output is through paralleled TO-3 power devices and a 4PDT relay on the DC protection board. The amplifier allows both adjustable BIAS and DC-Offset (with cheap-ass little pots that won't stay where you put them for 5 minutes...Kim G's were replaced with nice expensive Bourns trimpots).

    The Kenwood is overall an older design using older components and transistors that have been unavailable since 1977 (perhaps someone can help me out with the years here, but the Kenwood screams '1974-75' and the Pioneer '1977'...maybe that doesn't sound like much but if you were there and remember, those two/three years encompassed a lot of changes). Nothing terribly wrong here, and it usually has been a Kenwood hallmark to utilize tried-and-true designs in an effort to build a bulletproof product rather than attempt to wow the crowd. The power supply is what I would term 'adequate', with a 'plane-Jane' transformer and 40,000µf of filtering (less than half of that supplied on the Pioneer) and does not use a soft-start...the power switch takes all the inrush current. The FM section is quite like the Pioneer, again with a 5-Gang variable cap, two RF amp sections, one RF mixer, and four IF ceramic filters. The preamp and filter amp are again very similar to the Pioneer, with the Kenwood cutting a gain and buffer stage to help with simplicity (the 'KISS' rule). Low voltages are all regulated like on the Pioneer. The Kenwood gives you a bit of a choice on the phono...two full phono amps are employed, one using a FET input (rated at 2.5mV/76db), the other a bipolar input (rated at 5mV/80db). I prefer the sound of a FET input for phono, but others may not. Neither the Pioneer or the Kenwood has enough gain for a MC cartridge.

    A significant deviation from Kenwood's standard practice of using known standard designs is the use of the output power module. The 9600 replaces the standard current mirror/driver/output stage with a hybrid package where the output drivers, power transistors, bias servo and overcurrent protection network are bonded to a very large aluminium heat spreader - increasing the area of thermal contact between the semiconductors and heatsink by a factor of at least 5 (the KA-9100 integrated also uses a hybrid module output). This, although similar in looks, is very different from the various STK modules used by mid-fi amps, one can actually even test the output transistors measuring through the pins of the hybrid module - the point was just to achieve exemplary thermal integrity. An additional advantage is a fair degree of ripple rejection that is not possible by using a standard driver/output stage, which is why Kenwood is able to get away with using such a comparatively small value of power supply filtering. The additional cost of manufacturing the hybrid is more than offset by savings in power supply caps (big caps=$$$). The downside is the unavailability of the module in the year 2003 should it fail for some reason. The upside is that, should you decide to do so, a discrete arrangement can be fabricated to replace a dead module, and there is a KR-9600 up for auction right now on eBay where this has been done - although the seller says he knows nothing of it. The amp section has no BIAS adjustment (BIAS is set through a precision voltage reference in the hybrid) and no DC-offset adjustment. One thing I found in the Kenwood that I did not like was back-to-back electrolytics in the input of the power amp section, and these electrolytics were tantulum at that! Tantalums are generally not used in signal paths because of poor frequency characteristics and substandard sonics, and back-to-back electrolytics are also frowned upon (but in the mid 70's quality bipolar electrolytics simply did not exist) . Fair or not, I replaced the input capacitor with a Black Gate 'N' series bipolar...I hate tantulums. The output of the power amp travels through two 4PDT relays mounted on the DC protection board.

    Both of these receivers use those shitty spring loaded speaker lead connectors. I hate those things!! And both have a preout/main-in jumper to allow the use of the receiver as a preamp, which no integrated amp or receiver should be without (IMHO).

    Listening and Overall Impressions: Both the Pioneer and the Kenwood have exceptionally sensitive and selective FM sections, with the Pioneer seeming to have a bit of an edge in sensitivity, and the Kenwood having an edge in selectivity and AM rejection. Sound quality, however, is significantly better in the Pioneer. The Kenwood FM audio quality just isn't up to audiophile standards, and barely qualifies as Hi-Fi (mild exaggeration...) The problem here is a way substandard output opamp in the Kenwood IF section, a thread concerning which I started here. After the opamp change, the Kenwood FM quality is at least on par with the Pioneer, but lacking a really decent FM station here in Kansas City, I can only speculate as to what both of these receivers might be capable of regarding FM reception. In stock form, the Pioneer wipes the floor sonically with the Kenwood. Anyone with a 9600 that would like to make a serious and noticeable improvement should drop me a line.

    The phono sections of both are quite well done, but since I prefer the sound of a FET input for phono, I have to give the Kenwood a nod here. Odd that Kenwood, cutting costs to manufacture the most inexpensive TOTL Japanese mass-market receiver, would opt for two complete phono stages. Nevertheless, it gives one a choice of sensitivities and sound.

    Kickin' back with the Dynaudio speakers on each amp reveals that there is not an enourmous difference in sound quality (with the notable exception of the FM stage). Both sound like good quality solid-state amps, with power to spare. At low-to-medium volumes I kind of preferred the Kenwood...noise floor seemed lower and detail was more apparent, although soundstaging was superior with the Pioneer at all volume levels. At the highest levels, the Pioneer shines, missing nary a beat and seeming to have the ability to output much more than its rated 160WPC (I cannot test full output power at these levels unless I want to smoke my precision dummy loads...and I can't afford to replace them). The Kenwood, on the other hand, more than likely is pretty accurately rated at 160WPC. Even with the hybrid module on the Kenwood, there is simply no substitute for big-ass filter caps (although 88,000µf is probably serious overkill). Another nice mod to the Kenwood would be to add a bit of filter capacitance, perhaps 10,000µf per side. This could be risky since the Kenwood has no soft-start circuitry, and power switch or bridge rectifier failure could become an issue. Unless you regularly rattle the walls or have very inefficent speakers (like I do), this is not necessary.

    In the looks department, this is a matter of taste (Duh!). I have always loved what I called the 'white-faced' Pioneer receivers. The Kenwood, OTOH, has the cool-blue front panel and chrome handles that I like. Suffice it to say that the Pioneer is probably more 'wife-friendly' (as long as she doesn't have to lift it) with the attractive walnut case and straightforward panel layout. The Kenwood appeals to the 'techno-gadget-freak' in me, and looks at home next to a HP signal generator and a Tek scope. Both are beautiful units, but I usually give in to the tech side of me, so on looks I prefer the Kenny.

    In some ways this was not a totally fair test. The Pioneer was at the top of the food chain for Japanese receivers, and the Kenwood at the bottom. Indeed, once you start looking closely at the construction, places where Kenwood cut corners to keep costs down start to become apparent. The Pioneer is a 'balls-to-the-wall' design, and the Kenwood occupied the bargan basement. Regardless, both do the job and do it quite well. The KR-9600 would not be so desirable after all these years if it did not still sound good all this time.

    I find it unusual that the SX-1250 tends to sell on eBay for a bit less than the KR-9600. If I didn't have a thing for Kenwood gear, and if I didn't have the ability to tweak the gear to sound the way I want, this would be a no-brainer...I'd snag a mint SX-1250 and head down da road. Perhaps because the KR-9600 is not quite as common as the SX-1250, and because the SX-1250 lives in the shadow of the SX-1280 and the SX-1980, it it not as sought after.

    Whatever the reason, the SX-1250 is clearly the winner of a heads-up match between it and the KR-9600. Massive power with huge reserve, coupled with great looks and no glaring faults...unlike the Kenwood with it's 'so-so' FM audio quality, and irreplaceable power hybrid module (not so much a fault as a point of worry). Admittedly with a few minor tweaks the Kenwood can hold its own in most respects, but for the average Joe lookng for a decent TOTL vintage receiver, the Pioneer SX-1250 is tough to beat.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2003
    CJF likes this.
  2. bully

    bully member

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    Great comparison, Echo.
    Very much what I have thought (though in my case, not so technically put).
    As you noted, the KR-9600 was a bargain at its MSRP $775. The Pioneer SX-1250 went for $950. Consider the Yamaha CR-3020, when found, sold for $1,500!
    I am thinking that my 9600 would greatly benefit from an alignment, and your mods sound good, too.
     
  3. Lefty

    Lefty Super Member

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    EC;

    Nice job sharing your impressions of both these top of the line units. While I've never had a SX-1250 to compare with my KR-9600, I do own a SX-1980.

    The SX-1980 went to special triple darlington output devices for it's output stages. While these carry a 2SC type number as I recall, I have never found anyone that carries them anymore and I suspect that these too would be extra hard to locate, maybe impossible. The -1980 seems to have carried over the same power supply design except running at a higher voltage for the increased power over the -1250. The -1980 also eliminated some of the internal shielding plates that the -1250 has. In the FM section the -1980 added a phase lock loop to lock the FM local oscillator on frequency, and while this works fine it does take a light touch on the tuning knob to gain initial lock when tuning in a new station.

    The power switch is a weak point on the big Kenwood as it is in many of the higher powered receivers of the era. I have always recommended leaving the power switch on and using an external power strip to turn the system on and off. A bad power switch was the reason I was able to get my Kenwood for only $50. I was able to repair the switch contacts and had found that the MOV device that they wire across the main switch contacts had one lead that had never been soldered to one of the contacts! The soft start circuitry in the -1250 and -1280 is a very nice addition and pretty rare in my experiance.

    I would only add to your comments that the Kenwood signal meter that can be switched to show modulation depth of the transmitting station is great at showing how much compression a station is using, a very rare feature. I also really like the engraved and filled lettering used in the Kenwood front panel. I find the small black painted lettering very hard to read on the shiny Pioneer front panels. You have to get close and at the right angle to read all those little switch labels on the Pioneer.

    As we have discussed often in the past, one can hardly go wrong with any of the top of the line models from this era. They were all the 'flagship' of their model series and were designed to help sell the whole line. Many have observed that in most cases the #2 model in their series is often a much better bang for the buck in the used market.

    Lefty
     
  4. EchoWars

    EchoWars Hiding in Honduras

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    To be honest I really don't have a lot of experiance with high power amps. My Adcom 5-channel amp, with 120,000µf of filtering, only has a 0.5 ohm thermistor to limit inrush current, so hopefully it has a rather good switch. The remainder of the large amps I have experiance with (again, not a huge number) seem to have some mechanism to limit inrush current.

    The KR-9600 is going to get a soft-start/inrush limiter. There is a nice spot behind the power switch to mount it...I want the switch to last a while. Below is a basic circuit to do the job. All Electronics carries a pretty cheap 24V 70A relay that is about 1" square and would do the job nicely, and a small 7.5 ohm 25W resistor ought to do a decent job limiting the inrush current to a max of about 12 - 15A or so. The schematic shows the relay on the opposite side of the transformer coil, but it really doesn't matter where it is.

    The meter is indeed cool, but generally simply confirms what my ears tell me anyway. The only tuners I know that have this feature are high-end Kenwoods (correct me if I am wrong).

    Bully...
    It's not like Lincoln is that far... :beer:
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2003
  5. hotgas

    hotgas Super Member

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    EW,

    ----------------------
    "I find it unusual that the SX-1250 tends to sell on eBay for a bit less than the KR-9600. "

    ------------------------

    I checked ebay for completed sales and the SX-1250 ranges from $250 to $350 while the KR-9600 is around $250 . So the Pioneer SX-1250 is still the favorite to many people. I'd love to own it to but the price is keeping me from getting one .
     
  6. Night Wolf

    Night Wolf White Woofer Night Wolf

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    EW, great review, I really enjoyed it.

    I prefer the 1280, only the only reasons would be the power meters (what is a TOTL vintage receiver without power meters?) and the white on black meters (vs the bacl on white) and the extra 25wpc dosn't really matter here....

    .....but perhaps someone could do the same with a Sansui 9090DB and them compare it to the 1250 and 9600?

    I know on my KR-8010 (2nd from TOTL) it was not a bad receiver, had an amazing tuner but the power amp section left alot to be desired in sound and even power (9090DB feels like it has alot more power then the 8010, and they are both rated 125wpc) Perhaps the thing that made me sell (both) my KR-8010's was, I wanted a TOTL vintage receiver, and I had certain requirements for that (mostly cosmetic/features) and the 8010 just didn't cut it.......meanwhile my 9090DB is doing one hell of a job at filling that area in, and I couldn't be more happy.
     
  7. Mark

    Mark Member

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    I think that's the best review/ comparison I've read on these units.
    I have a KA-9100 and a KT-8300 tuner, bought both of them new; IMHO they are both very good sounding units. Are you familiar with the 8300 and could I have your opinion of it? I always thought this was one of the better mid-fi tuners made. Is the build quality of the 9100 better than the 9600? I think it sounds slightly better than my SA-9500, very mellow sounding, but that just my opinion.
    Thanks, Mark
     
  8. EchoWars

    EchoWars Hiding in Honduras

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    hotgas...not to split hairs :cool: , but it is indeed looking like they are almost on par regarding pricing of late. The recent auctions show what you have found, but I have been watching auctions for both for the last 6 months or so, and in general the 9600 has been commanding a slightly higher price. The latest auctions have bucked this trend a bit, as you have discovered. As much as I like the Kenwood (and I am indeed a fan of their stuff), the top SX receivers are tough to beat. For $250 - $300, the SX-1250 or SX-1280 are a steal.

    Night Wofl, Sansui built fine stuff...you'll get no argument from me, and the 9090DB has a pretty good rep in vintage circles. But the 9090DB would be at a disadvantage in a comparison with these TOTL high-power brutes...it's comparing apples and oranges. Each had its own target price range and was built accordingly. Pop the top off the Sansui and take a peek. Now, pop the top off of a SX-1250. The comparison will end there. :eek:

    Mark, Just where did you get the idea that the KT-8300 is mid-fi?? This tuner is one of the best analog tuners ever built. Indeed, the list of tuners that I might consider better than the 8300 is a short one. The 9600 tuner borrows heavily from the 8300, but the IF output of the 8300 is a discrete transistor output stage as opposed to the shitty IC output of the 9600.

    Regarding build quality of the KA-9100, Kenwood pulled all the stops when they put this one together. As an example, the 9100 might only be rated at 90WPC, but has two huge transformers and a total filter capacitance of 48,000µf, compared to the total filtering of the KR-9600 of 40,000µf. There isn't a lot of room for improvement on the 9100...it is one of the finest designs Kenwood produced. The only weak spot seems to be the output relay delay circuit...every 9100 I have seen had a problem here with a dying/dead transistor or capacitor or diode....and the fact that the 9100 is a PITA to work on. I have two of them ...one of which has the hard to find handles and is beyond mint. It also is my main rig :D
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2003
  9. bully

    bully member

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    I was gonna sing the praise of the KA-9100, but Echo beat me to it, and the sounds I sing are like geese farting.

    Yeah, I get to town every once in a while, Echo. Got family all around down there: Gardner, Shawnee, and way over in Independence. Shoot, I DON'T get down often enough!
    I'll need to let y'all know the next time I head down-- it's one of the few opps to stretch the legs on the SHO, and you could meet the fair lady Roxie the old boxer (a rare treat!)
    :cool:
     
  10. Kenwood Man

    Kenwood Man Kenwood Love'n Member

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    Kenwood KR 50 Series

    Hey EW,
    Quick question, I have a Kenwood KR 7050 with its high speed Direct Coupled Amp it's only rated at 80 wpc but I just reciently had it put onto a scope when I had it cleaned and it showed up at 105 wpc!! :eek: (not bad) Anyway I was wondering how you thought the 50 series would compair to the pioneer SX 1250 especially the KR 9050 virse the SX 1250. Anyway my KR 7050's MSRP was $750 that's the same as the KR9600 and it's the 3rd from the TOTL. What do you think of Kenwoods 50 series EW? Also I have been on the lookout for a KR 9050 for a while but they seem to be very rare! Anyway I was just curious how you thought those beefy Kenwoods Compared.

    Thanks,
    Peter AKA Kenwood Man
     
  11. Kenwood Man

    Kenwood Man Kenwood Love'n Member

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    Pic

    Here's a pic of my KR 7050. :D
     
  12. Night Wolf

    Night Wolf White Woofer Night Wolf

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    I agree, the only thing about the 9090DB is it's (lack of) having a big boy "bruteness" look to it.... it is very plain, just a "normal" 25lbs transformer and 2 (kinda small) caps at 12,000uF each and at that, they are hidden unless you remove the bottom cover...

    ....IIRC the 9090DB was $900 new, and although rated at "only" 125wpc, I honestly think it is doing alot more.... it clearly has more power then my KR-8010 and even my G-7700 (according to the review it was doing 160wpc RMS at rated distorton and 170wpc at clipping)

    I was just saying it would be cool to slowly add 1 TOTL receiver until you have a comparison of them all, I honestly think the 9090DB would have no problem (power wise) competing with the 1250 or 9600......

    just my $0.02
     
  13. EchoWars

    EchoWars Hiding in Honduras

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    Nice looking 7050! Kenwood apparently stole some design cues from Pioneer on that one. I have never heard a 7050 nor had the opportunity to peek inside one. Honestly, the vast majority of my experiance is with 40 - 100WPC amps and integrated. My KR-9600 is the first receiver I have ever owned. The first. :saywhat:

    NW, I'd kinda like to do that. But mostly I get these receivers as repair deals for friends and such who know I am underemployed (and don't want to see me starve), and to tell the truth, they really don't break all that often...although most all of them could use a good tweaking. Problem is, the average Joe becomes accustomed to the sound of a so-so amp, and not until he hears one that is working the way it should does the operation of his own unit come into question. So until it just flat 'blows-up' (like Kim G's did), it will be status quo.

    I have yet to actually hear one of these vintage amps that really sounds bad (KR-9600 FM section aside). Any of the 70's amps made by the big boys (and we all know who they are/were) is capable of sonic bliss at a bargan price.

    Anyone like to have their TOTL amp/integrated/receiver tweaked or looked over I'd be glad to do a comparison when complete (but the SX-1250 does indeed set the bar high). Even the lower-rated amps/receivers are fun to play with and can benefit from some TLC.
     
  14. EchoWars

    EchoWars Hiding in Honduras

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    If you head down this way, grab an amp or two...any of 'em that you think could use some attention. Certainly the opamp change on the KR-9600 is a worthwhile endevor.

    Roxie? A canine? Would look forward to it.
     
  15. Night Wolf

    Night Wolf White Woofer Night Wolf

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    EW..... you seem to be very knowledgeable on repairing this old gear....

    ..... Just wondering, what would a rough estimate be to completly restore an older TOTL receiver? you know like replace all the small caps, adjust and align everything, maybe tweak it or add more filtering caps in the line etc... you know, the normal stuff that goes on when someone restores a older amp/receiver.
     
  16. EchoWars

    EchoWars Hiding in Honduras

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    On a receiver this is a time consuming job. To give an idea, I just finished replacing every electrolytic capacitor in the KR-9600. Total time...probably 30 - 35 hours. Parts cost...approximately $120 plus the $25 manual which I didn't have (admittedly a bit high since I opted to install Black Gate caps in all the signal path locations...and the two phono amps in the 9600 didn't help keep costs down either).

    As far as adding additional filter caps, this is a touchy area. A soft-start can be added, but sometimes finding room for the relay and resistor is tricky. If the amp/receiver already has such a circuit, then it gets easy. The only thing I cannot do is align a tuner. Been trying to snag a signal generator from eBay, but the decent cheap ones have eluded me so far.

    On an amp, or even an integrated, it gets a lot simpler and generally cheaper. Regardless, when done you would have an amp that sounds probably better than it did when it was new. The down side is that you most likely would have more money in the receiver than it would sell for...

    ...notice I did not say "More money than it is worth". Worth of an individual item, particularly vintage audio gear, cannot be measured by what it would sell for on eBay. So what if you have $500 invested in a receiver that sells for $300 on eBay? Who can put a price (within reason...) on having a beautiful vintage piece that sounds as if it left the factory yesterday? Even then, I still would not consider doing this on an amp or receiver unless it was worthy of the effort (no SX-650's :tongue: ). Indeed, it would have to be a reciever that you intend to keep for a long long time.

    If interested, track down the prints and send 'em to me. I can give a pretty fair idea of what could be done and what it would cost then.
     
  17. Lefty

    Lefty Super Member

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    Gang;

    I would like to throw out a frequent counter argument to the 'modify it to make it sound better' theory offered by EC and others.

    A down side to modifiying a top of the line peice of equipment is the effect on possible resale value on a highly desirable collectable model. Many e-bay listings will state that the unit has no signs of modifications as a attribute for the unit, and I bet that a modified unit, if mentioned, is most likely to get fewer bidders or lower bids on the most seriously collected models. Hell look how high some pay for 'never opened' boxed equipment when they do sometimes show up!

    A exception to this rule that I have seen is where the original design engineer does upgrade mods to certain models. The Mac tuner designer is one that comes to mind, but his name excapes for the moment. These do seem to add to the value of the model.

    This is not to say I have anything against modifying gear, it is a valid sub-interest in this hobby along with DIY, etc.

    I would however recommend that one's first major modification project be performed on a more common lower resale value model then with a top of the line model. Then one can judge if the improvement is worth the possible risk of lowering it's resale value.

    Again I am not coming down for or against the concept of modifiying equipment for increased performance. It's too subjective of a subject and near impossible to objectively and independitly evaluate and measure the results. I just ask you to ask yourself that if you were in the market for a Marantz 2600 receiver and you see two near identical e-bay listings where one has had modifications to it and one is stated to be unmodified, which one would you be more likely to bid market price on?

    Lefty
     
  18. Night Wolf

    Night Wolf White Woofer Night Wolf

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    EW, I was mostly referring to my 9090DB... see, this is how I see it. It is mint right now, by that I mean not a single thing wrong, case has some very light scratches. for this 9090DB I paid about $320 shipped, not too bad at all. I love it. But if it would cost me, say $350 or so to get it restored, then here is how I see it, for maybe $700 I have a "brand new" receiver, but the cost is broekn down twice, so it's not that bad at all. Now IMO the 9090DB could hold it's own against a $700 amp today, but that is not the point, the point is, sure may be spending more on it then it is worth, but when I will have back is something far better then all the other stock units. Because to get a new inte. amp or something of this quality would be alot of money, then there is a tuner, then other things like the features on the 9090DB, looks, history etc...

    Obviously I would not do this anytime soon, as it all takes money, but I am just throwing ideas around, becuase I know if I was to get my receiver restored/modified that it would be alot better then it is now (and now it is in great shape)

    I know it would affect the resale value, but it's a $300 receiver, not a $50k car or anything, and honestly, I plan on having this thine for a loooooooong time to come.

    I dunno, some things I would want would be a complete restore (obviously) it already has the soft start and protection circuits. Too bad you don't have the gear for the tuner, becuase I would also want to get it alaigned and everything set correctly again. It currently has 12,000uF/side (2 caps) which isn't all that much (although it seems to have no proablem at all really cranking) But I was thinking about adding another 10-12k uF/side. then there is the minor normal things, something like maybe change the low filter to something like 20hz (my old KR-8010 was at 18hz and it was real nice) becuase it is 40 or 50hz right now, which is really useless.

    I would say a mint 9090DB is worth the effort, it is a nice TOTL receiver, for the longest time I wanted a Pioneer SX-1280, then saw the 9090DB, and I just really like Sansui, and the first time I saw it, I said, I have to have one, now I do, and just thinking for the future what I could do. Becuase I can't see buying new gear (AFA amp) and sure vintage inte. amps appeal to me alot, but the 9090DB has passed every requirment that I wanted for my "TOTL receiver I must have"- it has done that and then some....

    Like I sad though, *IF* I did decide to do this, it is a couple of years off.....although I am always up for a deal (ex... I do have a nice 9090DB and G-7700 that can use a nice home and some TLC...)
     
  19. BeatleFred

    BeatleFred Super Member

    Messages:
    2,644
    Location:
    New York
    Instead of popping the hood on a 9090DB in comparsion to the SX-1250, more interesting would be a Sansui G-22000 or G-33000 Receiver:)
     
  20. bully

    bully member

    Messages:
    12,750
    Location:
    Near Lafayette, Indiana
    The 9090DB and the SX-1250 were contemporaries. The two big Sansuis would be better matched against the SX-1980.
    Still and all, the SX-1250 was seriously overbuilt at its 160 wpc.
    Oh, the big black SX-5590 adds that nasty cachet of not being seen everywhere :cool:
     

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