Poll: Do you like when vintage receivers have LED lamps swapped in?

Do you like LED lights or the original style lights on vintage receivers?

  • Yes

    Votes: 100 41.7%
  • No

    Votes: 98 40.8%
  • Doesn't matter

    Votes: 30 12.5%
  • I don't know

    Votes: 6 2.5%
  • Howard Dean

    Votes: 6 2.5%

  • Total voters
    240
Please don't drive on the road when I am driving and you have to make a panic stop with your D78/13s. A show car trailered in is one thing and a daily driver is another.
 
No, what I wrote was correct.

I am putting in SU's to replace the crappy carbs they provided to the US (as in United States, not SU backwards) which were a pair of Strombergs. In the UK they skipped carbs and went with Lucas PI system.

Bodyblue, I learned to drive in mid-60's muscle cars with bias ply tires (IIRC they had H78's though - D78 was a pretty lightweight tire). I'd no more tailgate someone in one of those than I would rely on my modern tires to let me tailgate even if they're brand new Pirelli P0's. I also live in California where idiots rear end other idiots on the freeway literally every day, pretty sure you're at more risk from sharing the road with them than you are from someone driving a classic car on bias play tires that is actually paying attention.

John

That would be SU carbs
 
No, what I wrote was correct.

I am putting in SU's to replace the crappy carbs they provided to the US (as in United States, not SU backwards) which were a pair of Strombergs. In the UK they skipped carbs and went with Lucas PI system.

Bodyblue, I learned to drive in mid-60's muscle cars with bias ply tires (IIRC they had H78's though - D78 was a pretty lightweight tire). I'd no more tailgate someone in one of those than I would rely on my modern tires to let me tailgate even if they're brand new Pirelli P0's. I also live in California where idiots rear end other idiots on the freeway literally every day, pretty sure you're at more risk from sharing the road with them than you are from someone driving a classic car on bias play tires that is actually paying attention.

John


So did I.

Here is the spec page for 1966 Pontiacs. GTOs and Station Wagons both rode 7.75x14s bias belted tires. Try getting those pigs stopped with those tires and the four wheel drum brakes. Tire tech has improved so much since even the early 80s that there is really little reason to use them on a daily driver. Any modern car with antilock brakes and good tires will stop in half the distance of any old car on pizza cutters. 1/4 of the distance in the rain. Take your old car and put modern tires on it and you at least give yourself a fighting chance. The stock size on my almost 4000 lb 351CJ Mustang Grande' was 195/75-14. In 1986 when I bought it, that is the size it had. I had it about a week when a cat ran in front of me going 50 mph.......as I was sliding down the street sideways after locking up those shitty tires I thought to myself "if I survive I am getting new tires today". By the end of the day I had 235/65/14s on it (low profile for the day) and NEVER thought about going back to stock again. If you want to lie to yourself and think that period correct tires are really ok to drive on then I hope you dont kill anyone else.

40.jpg
 
Do you ever hurt yourself falling off that soapbox? Getting pretty shouty about this, don't you think?

I'm still trying to figure out who exactly I'm putting at risk by simply voting and then stating my own preference for keeping lamps in my own equipment when that's how they were originally built, instead of replacing them with LED's. You dragged that over into a questionable analogy with tires, not me.

"before you kill anyone else" - seriously? Give it a rest...

John
 
I voted no. Warm white/orangey glow is a big part of the aesthetic as far as I am concerned, and even when considering warm white LEDs, I think I would, in this case, want to keep my equipment original and deal with replacing bulbs whenever it comes up.
 
Now, one line up I would ALWAYS change out to LEDs is the McIntosh with the big blue meters. Very common to see the blue gels brown out and even burn over time with the stock incandescents. Yes, you can replace the gels, but expect those to go the same way ...

mc2205-meters.jpg
 
It's sort of a pet peeve of mine but not that big a deal. Just wondering where others fell on this. Do you like when LEDs are swapped in to replace the original-style lamps on vintage receivers or not?

This is actually good data. a lot of us on the site restore gear to flip. This shows that more folks lean towards original lamps (myself included).

I like original lamps, I don't dislike the looks of LEDs but I do like to keep things as original as I can. I've recapped a few receivers for friends and tend to stick with original lamps. Crap, most of the original lamps lasts for 40+ years.. good enough for me. I like the warm glow of originals. I've just seen to many people swap some odd color LEDs... nothing like seeing an SX1250 with green LEDs... no, it's not cool, or an "upgrade".... just to wonky for my liking.
 
Stock incandescent bulbs back in. Kinda sorry looking, but that's how Yamaha intended the lights to look so...

It is 'kinda sorry looking' because that is NOT how Yamaha intended it to look and it did not look like that when new. Incandescents (especially small ones) degrade in light output massively over their lifetime and the spectral output shifts more to the red end of the spectrum. Yamaha used those small greenish/blue filters on that series of gear to 'clean up' the light when they were new.

When new, the diffusers were also white- now they are yellowed and when combined with dim incandescents, it looks simply dreadful. In addition, the dial pointer perspex gets yellowed from UV exposure.

With the Yamaha meter diffusers and dial pointer bulb holes, it is a great idea to paint white enamel around the yellowed bulb mounts and install warm white LEDs with appropriate current limiting to ensure perfect illumination.

I'll try to find the shots I took when recently doing a CR-820.
 
@jobrewer1983 It crossed my mind when I posted it that it might be informative to restorers (of course my 3AM jumbled phrasing of the question makes the results a little bit unclear, but I think most understood what I was asking). I think a good portion of people may not understand that there is a visual difference at all. Whenever I bring up the difference between the LEDs we are putting in our houses, offices, and street lights to people, I usually get a blank stare in return. To someone like me who pays a lot of attention to visual things (and is also very sensitive to light), the difference is dramatic, and not at all trivial. To me the old style lights match the era and 'vibe' of the old receivers - no right or wrong about it, but definitely a preference I have (at least currently).
 
@jobrewer1983 It crossed my mind when I posted it that it might be informative to restorers (of course my 3AM jumbled phrasing of the question makes the results a little bit unclear, but I think most understood what I was asking). I think a good portion of people may not understand that there is a visual difference at all. Whenever I bring up the difference between the LEDs we are putting in our houses, offices, and street lights to people, I usually get a blank stare in return. To someone like me who pays a lot of attention to visual things (and is also very sensitive to light), the difference is dramatic, and not at all trivial. To me the old style lights match the era and 'vibe' of the old receivers - no right or wrong about it, but definitely a preference I have (at least currently).

Agreed^^

I was using 10-100W HO LEDs for reef aquariums back in the early 2000s. I'm pretty sure I still have a few chips and power supply's around somewhere. I've also modded out a few projectors with chipset LEDs they can be a lot of fun to tinker with, and so have a lot of good applications. I just don't feel Audio is one of them. It's a fun project, but really is not worth the time.

Dowojo is an member who has access to most original lamps. For peraonal 1250 build I used his lamps. I feel they look better than LEDs. Uts all subjective, but knowing what others like can actually be helpful!

What a great thread!
 
Agreed^^

I was using 10-100W HO LEDs for reef aquariums back in the early 2000s. I'm pretty sure I still have a few chips and power supply's around somewhere. I've also modded out a few projectors with chipset LEDs they can be a lot of fun to tinker with, and so have a lot of good applications. I just don't feel Audio is one of them. It's a fun project, but really is not worth the time.

Dowojo is an member who has access to most original lamps. For peraonal 1250 build I used his lamps. I feel they look better than LEDs. Uts all subjective, but knowing what others like can actually be helpful!

What a great thread!
It's subjective but I prefer the original look.I'll never do leds on the few vintage I have chosen to keep.
 
Had it done on a Marantz 125 tuner and it looked wonderful. Just had it done on a MacIntosh MR77 tuner but haven't got to really see it yet.

By the way, I think the color effect some are calling purple is really violet.

Purple is a mixture of red and blue. Violet is blue on the shorter wavelength side of blue, sort of "ultra-blue." Ultraviolet, the human eye can't see.
 
That is nice work, for sure. Seeing some of the degraded materials involved reminds me again why I've got so much appreciation for Tandberg receivers and components from that period. They simply did a better job than many Japanese makers of avoiding that kind of design choice, so there's a lot less to deal with when restoring one of their pieces compared to what you had to rework in that Yamaha. Similar feeling (albeit with very limited experience) with the Technics SA-5760/5770 illumination and overall design; three lamps, metal parts used throughout, no aging plastic involved. If it wasn't for the unfortunate cast metal tuning shaft design flaw those receivers have, it would be one of the solidest pieces I ever worked on.

I do appreciate this conversion when it's done that well, and I accept that some designs just don't hold up well with incandescent heat involved. If I had to deal with Marantz receivers constantly for example, my overall position might shift further away from stock. I can see getting tired of having to constantly battle with that same failure mode repeatedly.

John

Not wanting to bog down this thread with pictures, here's a link to a new thread I just made in the Yamaha forum

http://audiokarma.org/forums/index....ht-on-yamaha-receivers-and-amplifiers.825896/

cheers

See my link above and by all means, comment.
 
I was always an 'original is best' guy for many years, until it became obvious that much of the heat damage, discoloration and poor quality/longevity of incandescents became too much. The brittle bulb holders etc.

Also, people send me gear, often from interstate and want restorations that will 'last 20 years'. So the discussion is had and some are converted.

I'm still conflicted with LED conversions, big lit up power meters for example, don't look good.

For getting the look right, a variable voltage/current source calibrator like this:

IMG_2292 (Small).jpeg

Or one of these:

IMG_2290 (Small).jpeg

IMG_2289 (Small).jpeg

is pretty much an essential for brightness level setting as 20mA on modern LEDs is way too bright. Most of mine run under 10mA and some are down to 3 and 4 mA in sensitive areas.
 
Yeah, that and a healthy assortment of different LED types I would guess... not to mention some various plastics or other diffusers to use as needed to get the lighting effect correct. It's really reverse-engineering an effective solution, not just dropping in whatever cheap premade LED replacements some seller on eBay assured you would work perfectly. Unfortunately, the same folks that can't or won't go through the effort to source correct original lamps (much less deal with addressing issues caused by aging or poorly chosen materials in the original design) are unlikely to do that much reverse-engineering work either, and beat a path to the cheap drop-in parts.

John
 
It is 'kinda sorry looking' because that is NOT how Yamaha intended it to look and it did not look like that when new. Incandescents (especially small ones) degrade in light output massively over their lifetime and the spectral output shifts more to the red end of the spectrum. Yamaha used those small greenish/blue filters on that series of gear to 'clean up' the light when they were new.

When new, the diffusers were also white- now they are yellowed and when combined with dim incandescents, it looks simply dreadful. In addition, the dial pointer perspex gets yellowed from UV exposure.

With the Yamaha meter diffusers and dial pointer bulb holes, it is a great idea to paint white enamel around the yellowed bulb mounts and install warm white LEDs with appropriate current limiting to ensure perfect illumination.

I'll try to find the shots I took when recently doing a CR-820.

Personally, I don't care, since I'm not into vintage amplification, but I do find this argument about changes over time in the immediate environs of the bulb very persuasive - restored to original bulbs may not be the same as restored to original appearance... interesting post, and thread.
 
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