Power Conditioners... the final frontier

[davelarz]

How many fake profil here and how many fake review?

I haven't seen many here that I thought were bogus, but obviously you never know. On other sites, definitely. This is certainly a big issue with internet commerce in general. Audiogon forums for sure have industry trolls. They're pretty easily identified IMO. You see these same guys over and over inserting themselves into discussions and pushing the virtues of the same often obscure component or cable. There's one fascinating thread at Audiogon from a few years ago about different audio cables that ends up just being a long pissing contest between Grover Huffman and a guy who turns out to have been a former business partner of Grover's who is now disgruntled and suing Grover for patent infringement. Guy was just going on any thread he could find and shitting on Grover's cables and rep. It's the age old truth... wherever there is money to be made, sharks and wolves are lurking.

I also think a lot of these industry guys think that many of their customers aren't informed and don't have very good ears and consequently can be convinced of anything. I remember auditioning some speaker cables from a company a few years ago (this company is on my shit list and the shit list of a few of my friends as utter snake oil - I am not going to out them in this public forum but happy to spill the beans in any private conversation) and when I wrote to send them back I said (I had Kimber speaker cables at the time) that I just felt they weren't as good as my Kimbers. I got a pretty aggressive email in return telling me that I needed to listen more closely, our cables are way better than Kimber, I have a whole warehouse full of Kimbers that people have traded in for our cables, keep trying. I wrote the guy back (this is the main guy at the company writing me) a pretty pissed off email basically saying... you're telling me I'm wrong? Where do you get off telling me I'm wrong about what I'm hearing in my system are you effin kidding me?

The reply was a return authorization and also a note that I should try some of their even more expensive cables.

 

[saggy]

..... you're telling me I'm wrong? Where do you get off telling me I'm wrong about what I'm hearing in my system are you effin kidding me?

BINGO. Tell me I'm uneducated; tell me it's a clarinet not an oboe; but don't tell me my ears are wrong. If I told tell you your face is wrong, what would you do about it?

I never step foot in places that tell me my choices are wrong. I respect someone telling me a McIntosh amp is more well-built than a BestBuy special, but if I like the way my BBS sounds compared to the Mc, you can say I'm wrong but I'll call it just as happy, but with an extra $4k in my pocket.

There are one or two places here in the city that I'll never go to again.

 

[toxcrusadr]

Dear Audiokarma letters,

I never believed people had these stereo experiences, until it happened to me...

"I'm a freshman at a large Midwestern university where I just had my first real stereo experience..."

our cables are way better than Kimber, I have a whole warehouse full of Kimbers that people have traded in for our cables, keep trying. I wrote the guy back (this is the main guy at the company writing me) a pretty pissed off email basically saying... you're telling me I'm wrong? Where do you get off telling me I'm wrong about what I'm hearing in my system are you effin kidding me?

I would have told the guy I could take all those crap Kimber cables off their hands for, oh, a couple hundred bucks. I mean, you pay me to haul them away, that is.

 

[davelarz]

"I'm a freshman at a large Midwestern university where I just had my first real stereo experience...

I couldn't believe how big it was.

 

[RobRoy]

In the US, wall outlet power is to "conditioned" power what Prime rib is to Kobe Beef.

HAHAHA. Just kidding.

If you have a reliable power source, it should be fine unless your microwave oven is next to your turntable and tuner. If you're in certain neighborhoods in Zimbabwe, a good power conditioner and battery backup is in order.

 

[davelarz]

The audiophiles of Zimbabwe are underserved.

 

[toxcrusadr]

Sounds like a job for Garrett Morris - after he's secured enough Fondue pots for Namibia, he can take on Power Conditioners for Zimbabwe.

 

[dosmalo]

Sounds like a job for Garrett Morris - after he's secured enough Fondue pots for Namibia, he can take on Power Conditioners for Zimbabwe.

That'll be the final frontier.

 

[analoge4ever]

Is there a good brand you recommend taking a look at?

I use a Magnum Energy unit, but there are plenty of units out there. Mine is 1,000 watts and works well running my TA-4A, but you could go larger if you want however as you increase in wattage feeding the beast becomes problematic, i.e. heavy cables and multiple batteries, I would recommend no more then 2,000 watts for most systems.

 

[bjlefebvre]

Picked up a Oneac unit on eBay a few days ago, inspired by @saggy . I figured for $30 it'd be worth the experimenting. Four outlets, 15amps, at the very least it's rated to better protect against a power surge. I figured why not. Plugged the DAC, phono pre, turntable and amp into it (sorry, tuner - you're still with the lamp on the Belden el cheapo strip).

After listening to Cachao and Bill Evans via the DAC, my initial impressions are this did in fact help the soundstage. This hit me because I've just set up my gear in our new condo two or three weeks ago and had still been having problems getting the speakers placed so that the soundstage was near to my liking. Today without having touched the speakers, instruments and vocals sound more focused in their placement and the speakers have properly disappeared. I swapped the Oneac out for the power strip on different tracks to make sure I'm not imagining this. I doubt the sonic change is as dramatic as what Dave heard with his gear, but it's enough that I would definitely advise picking up one of these filter/conditioner thingamabobs over a power strip just on principal, never mind how far up the monetary chain you care to go.

I've got a used Panamax MR-4000 on the way as well. Again, I've stayed on the entry-level, used side of the pond, but we'll see if it makes things sound any different from the Oneac and power strip.

 

[saggy]

It's good to hear this review, Ben. It makes me feel like I'm not crazy after all! haha. I'm glad you're having success with this, and I'd love to see if anyone else feels the same way. Just a few dollars can go a long way - you just gotta know how and where to spend it.

 

[bjlefebvre]

After listening to Cachao and Bill Evans via the DAC

Oh, and to be clear, the Cachao and Bill Evans were separate albums.

 

[Seamaster]

Here is how I fixed my problem:



10 Gauge cryo treated Romex solid core wire.

As far as "power strip", I settled on a Torus Power RM15 Plus, an OEM transformer manufacture for many big name audio brands, they can't be all wrong right? The unit has nothing but a huge isolation transformer. While it improves the overall sound, it does not inject any personal flavor into my system, great! Also, it improves dynamic instead robbing it.

 

[davelarz]

Nice work Seamaster. And those Torus units are supposed to be really good.

Hey BJ - trying going straight into the wall with your amp with the rest of the front-end stuff into the OneAC. Just curious, worried that OneAC might squash the dynamics of your amp a little. What does your amp pull max do you know?

 

[bjlefebvre]

Amp draws 75 watts at full power. Flea watt, baby.

Update: Tried moving the cords around. Didn't notice much dynamic compression with the OneAC. Maybe a little, but not enough to make me want to plug it right in the wall and risk a power surge. The OneAC definitely tightens up the sound stage. On the Miles Davis All Stars album I listened to, the horn soloists went from all being "all in front of my piano" when the amp was plugged into the Belkin to "J.J. Johnson is piano-right and Lucky Thompson is piano-left and Miles Davis in in the center" when it was plugged into the filter.

Also, I was kinda apprehensive to having our piano between the hifi speakers, but it is kinda sweet when the soundstage is good enough where it sounds like Horace Silver is not only playing piano, he's playing my piano.

 

[matteos]

Awesome write up. I was always skeptical, too.
But I went a different route: I began with a non-audio power conditioner.

1. Needed more outlets, like you
2. I live in an old Brooklyn apartment built by 1935 Italians (stereotypically terrible residential laborers of that era) and I have seen the electrical . Wow. Amazing my place hasn't exploded yet.
3. I had hiss, hum, and buzz in my line.

So... I went to a guy's house who showed me what he was using. Some of you may have been in Peekskill for the gathering and saw what I brought with me; it's a hospital grade power conditioner. It cost me $25 on eBay and the two reasons I bought it are:

1. It worked in my friend's system nicely (heard it with my ears)
2. As a hospital-grade unit, it is constructed - without hyperbole - as something that can be the difference between life and death. It has to work.

Per regulation, hospitals must replace these units periodically . I'm not sure the exact interval but maybe every few years. When they get tossed aside they sell for cheap on auction sites. Shipping is usually more than the unit.

When I switched my system over the difference was obvious . Almost 100% of the noise was gone from the line. I can't really say what it did to the listening experience other than to mention what you and others have already: the blackness and austerity in the background was a pleasure to hear - or NOT hear. It made the music stand out better . I haven't done - nor will I likely do - as deep a comparison as you, but the difference was noticeable and the price was entry-level.

If anyone else has bought one of these please share your experience. I would be totally curious to see how it worked for you, and I would love to see the differences between it and the audio-tailored conditioners. It serves as a nice entry point to prove, for short money, that these things really work. How much you have to spend and how well they work is up to you. Which leaves me with the eternal question: "I'm happy with what I have but is what you have better?"

Interesting post. I already have a power conditioner - I don't know how it ranks as I bought it as an after thought from an AV installer alongside an amp I bought from him. I did however do a quick search on eBay for "hospital grade power conditioner." The first thing that came up was hospital grade power cables. These aren't expensive at all. I wonder if they are an improvement to regular old power cables?

 

[saggy]

I wonder if they are an improvement to regular old power cables?

Only one way to find out.....