PRIMALUNA PROLOGUE FIVE soon to be in the house

[mdelrossi]

And don't even ask me what piece of crap TT I wasted my money on Its all just a work in progress in the whole scheme of things.

LOL

It's a journey thats for sure. did you change the crossover in the heresy? I think Bob Crite(sp) sells updated crossovers that are supposed to address some issues.

I had a pair and they were a bit bright for my tastes, and that surprised me with that big ole woofer in there .

Best of luck and keep us posted.

mdr

 

[Eminence1963]

Its been a couple of weeks with the new tubes in place and no change on the sound for the most part. So I did not have my CD player hooked up and decide one day to try it. Just give it a listen. Played a cd at low volume and discovered that at a very low listen level I mean just a crack to the volume knob on the Jolida Fusion that Im using the volume was not low enough for me to enjoy. It was too loud. This has been discussed on other forums and so I started to look at other forums to see what the fix was. There are in line attenuators that can be purchased to reduce the output of the preamp to better suit the amplifier. So I had another Jolida JD5T that I use to control the subs in my room, decided to swap out the pre to the PL5. WOW what a difference That JD5t at only 10 db output versus the Fusion which is 20 db made a HUGH difference on the sound. No shrill and tons of bass now. So the final word so far that led to this discovery is that the Fusion in stock form is too hot a signal for the PL5.
I ordered these to see if this will help lower the output of the Fusion. I ordered the 6db attenuators Im crossing my fingers that they will help with the hot signal feeding my PL5. I will call Jolida at some point and ask if the pre can have a reduction in output put on the pre at some future date if this will work with the in line attenuators first. Don't want to drop a load of cash on something that wont work with a simple external mod first.

Attenuator for audio by Harrison Labs
I looked at the specs on the PL preamp and the output on that pre is 12db output so this amount of 6db reduction will put the Fusion at 14DB output. Will see.......

 

[KlipschFan61]

Been loving my Four for over a week now. Swapped out the stock EL34's for a matched quad set of Electro Harmonix KT88's as well as some Tung-sol 12AX7's. Still need my Loki in between the preamp and the PL4 but my LaScala's have never sounded so open and balanced. I'm also impressed by how well this amp moves that lazy 15 in the bass bin at low volume levels.

 

[rogerh113]

Hello,

Sounds like you are working through a couple of issues. I had a Prologue 5 working through Klipsch Forte.

Your issue may be preamp gain. I ended up using a passive preamp, which was an improvement on several fronts. It both 'moved' the music into a usable range on my volume dial, and also the sound was much more clear and defined (the classic removal of a few veils). The CD output is at a high enough level out of the player, and I assume you have some sort of phono amp (or maybe part of the preamp you have). The particular unit I got was a Mod Squad Deluxe Line Drive - funky name, but made by McCormack with excellent parts, and some on the later versions under his name. One of a couple of components I will never give up.

I did not have the shrill issue that you are describing with mine, so likely you can 'fix' it. Certainly all of the tubes play in the game, with even the power tubes possibly causing the problem you are experiencing.

 

[Eminence1963]

Been loving my Four for over a week now. Swapped out the stock EL34's for a matched quad set of Electro Harmonix KT88's as well as some Tung-sol 12AX7's. Still need my Loki in between the preamp and the PL4 but my LaScala's have never sounded so open and balanced. I'm also impressed by how well this amp moves that lazy 15 in the bass bin at low volume levels.

What's a Loki?

 

[KlipschFan61]

What's a Loki?

A little piece of Schitt.
=)

 

[Eminence1963]

A little piece of Schitt.
=)

I don't judge others equipment. I just asked questions when I don't know what the fix can be or maybe somebody else has the same problem

 

[KlipschFan61]

I don't judge others equipment. I just asked questions when I don't know what the fix can be or maybe somebody else has the same problem

I never thought you were judging my equipment. The Loki is made by Schiit, hence the moniker "my little piece of Schiit".

Kind of an inside joke to fellow Schiiters..

 

[Eminence1963]

Hello,

Sounds like you are working through a couple of issues. I had a Prologue 5 working through Klipsch Forte.

Your issue may be preamp gain. I ended up using a passive preamp, which was an improvement on several fronts. It both 'moved' the music into a usable range on my volume dial, and also the sound was much more clear and defined (the classic removal of a few veils). The CD output is at a high enough level out of the player, and I assume you have some sort of phono amp (or maybe part of the preamp you have). The particular unit I got was a Mod Squad Deluxe Line Drive - funky name, but made by McCormack with excellent parts, and some on the later versions under his name. One of a couple of components I will never give up.

I did not have the shrill issue that you are describing with mine, so likely you can 'fix' it. Certainly all of the tubes play in the game, with even the power tubes possibly causing the problem you are experiencing.

I'm pretty sure a hundred percent that I know it's my preamp as I have swapped another preamp into the system as stated above., and with the lesser of preamp it sounds pretty good. All abnormalities that I'm hearing are gone with the lesser of the preamp guess sometimes more isn't always the answer.

 

[Eminence1963]

I never thought you were judging my equipment. The Loki is made by Schiit, hence the moniker "my little piece of Schiit".

Kind of an inside joke to fellow Schiiters..

Ah ok my bad I read it wrong.

 

[mcgjohn]

If you have Prima Luna equipment make a comment here on what your thoughts are on Prima Luna gear I would like to hear your thoughts.

[/QUOTE]


Have quite a few of the PL pieces. On the five, if it has the original tubes, they are not as good as current production Chinese tubes.
the PSVANE Gray glass KT88s are really good. Same with the 12AX7 input tubes.

If you want to run a 12AT7 in place of the AX7, you'll need to drop the plate resistor from 150K to about 33K to keep the plate voltage correct.

The coupling caps are also an area which can be easily upgraded. Jensen or Jupiter copper foil caps really move the PL amps up a few notches.

best

 

[techguy0192]

Glad you're happy. I'd rather have the equivalent, American made, Rogue Audio product. I was burned on the made in China stuff the one time I gave it a try.

 

[Eminence1963]

If you have Prima Luna equipment make a comment here on what your thoughts are on Prima Luna gear I would like to hear your thoughts.

Have quite a few of the PL pieces. On the five, if it has the original tubes, they are not as good as current production Chinese tubes.
the PSVANE Gray glass KT88s are really good. Same with the 12AX7 input tubes.

If you want to run a 12AT7 in place of the AX7, you'll need to drop the plate resistor from 150K to about 33K to keep the plate voltage correct.

The coupling caps are also an area which can be easily upgraded. Jensen or Jupiter copper foil caps really move the PL amps up a few notches.

best[/QUOTE]
I'll keep that in mind of I decide to allow this hobby of mine to delve deeper into the electronics.

 

[rogerh113]

If you know your preamp is an issue, I would suggest resolving that first. Once the obvious problem has been resolved, you might want to look at 'Joes tube lore'. Very good information on vintage driver tubes that could take your system to the next level. It would be hard to tell the difference in tubes if you have an over-riding problem like the preamp.....

 

[Palustris]

I just don't understand contemporary audio equipment's lack of technical compatibility. The manufacturers of this equipment actively perpetuate and exacerbate the problem playing the public for fools. The Primaluna Prologue Five, according to the published specifications, has an input sensitivity of 775mV. That's 0.775Vrms. Redbook standard for CD player output is 2Vrms. This is an international standard for all CD players and most phono stages! So your amplifier is driven to FULL OUTPUT by .775Vrms and the CD player puts out 2Vrms. Can't anyone see the obvious technical problem here? This amplifier simply needs a volume control on the input to drop the incoming signal to a comfortable listening level. To take the 2Vrms from the CD player and amplify it further adds considerable noise and distortion; then you add cables and connectors for more noise and distortion.

So you take the 2Vrms output from the CD player and amplify it 30 times (according to the specifications on Jolida web site) to 60Vrms when the amplifier can only input .775V for full output! That's just crazy and the audio manufacturers are taking you for fools selling you this gear! To overcome the ridiculous over amplification they sell you attenuaters to drop the voltage gain 6dB to only 30Vrms and still the amplifier can only input .775! If this were my amp I would punch a hole in the front cover and install a 100k stereo volume control and enjoy the clean clear sound.

 

[Eminence1963]

I just don't understand contemporary audio equipment's lack of technical compatibility. The manufacturers of this equipment actively perpetuate and exacerbate the problem playing the public for fools. The Primaluna Prologue Five, according to the published specifications, has an input sensitivity of 775mV. That's 0.775Vrms. Redbook standard for CD player output is 2Vrms. This is an international standard for all CD players and most phono stages! So your amplifier is driven to FULL OUTPUT by .775Vrms and the CD player puts out 2Vrms. Can't anyone see the obvious technical problem here? This amplifier simply needs a volume control on the input to drop the incoming signal to a comfortable listening level. To take the 2Vrms from the CD player and amplify it further adds considerable noise and distortion; then you add cables and connectors for more noise and distortion.

So you take the 2Vrms output from the CD player and amplify it 30 times (according to the specifications on Jolida web site) to 60Vrms when the amplifier can only input .775V for full output! That's just crazy and the audio manufacturers are taking you for fools selling you this gear! To overcome the ridiculous over amplification they sell you attenuaters to drop the voltage gain 6dB to only 30Vrms and still the amplifier can only input .775! If this were my amp I would punch a hole in the front cover and install a 100k stereo volume control and enjoy the clean clear sound.

Interesting conclusion in what you have written. I have volume controls on my Shuguang amps and using the same Jolida preamp, and do not use the full output control on the amp as it invites distortion the more gain to the amp volume control is applied. I would say around 70% of the volume know is used MAX. So what you have written is IMHO is a fact based in my system.
This is why I had to order attenuators for the PL 5. Which buy the way I am still waiting on them to be delivered
Thank you for your input on whats going on.

 

[Eminence1963]

These attenuators came in today and WOW what a difference they made to the sound. No more shrill no more bad sound, bass is more pronounced and much fuller. Im completely satisfied with the sound for now. Now its to to get serious and roll some tubes.

 

[CohibaJoe]

Have a PrimaLuna Dialogue Premium HP Intergraded. I never used the Stock Tubes and went
with KT-150's but did a number of Tube Rolling on the 12AU7's...ended up with 4 Philips(Mullard), 2 Brimar.
People who hear this leave with there Jaws on the floor.

Maybe Uncle Kevin can take the Prologue Five back to trade for something else?

 

[Eminence1963]

Maybe Uncle Kevin can take the Prologue Five back to trade for something else?

View attachment 1251354

Why? Im not bitching about all this. I just relating my experiences with what I'm hearing in my system. And what its taking me to get it all right to MY ears. Im not complaining about the amp at all. Sometimes things don't work out right out of the box, no matter how much money you spend. Does not mean it cant be fix to you own satisfaction, some way, some how IMO. I got several things worked out, that were not up to my standards. Can I improve to make it better as my wallet allows? Only time will tell

 

[CohibaJoe]

Why? Im not bitching about all this. I just relating my experiences with what I'm hearing in my system. And what its taking me to get it all right to MY ears. Im not complaining about the amp at all. Sometimes things don't work out right out of the box, no matter how much money you spend. Does not mean it cant be fix to you own satisfaction, some way, some how IMO. I got several things worked out, that were not up to my standards. Can I improve to make it better as my wallet allows? Only time will tell

The Uncle Kevin comment is not a Attack of your Journey...It just maybe the PROLOGUE FIVE is not playing nice with your other equipment
or the equipment is not playing nice with the PROLOGUE FIVE? Gear is like a Relationship....Compatibility....Hopefully you find that Happy Medium.