Primare I32 Integrated amp and optional DAC

[Lee Harvey]

This story started out on Bigerik's Exposure 3010S2 thread. To keep from thread jacking I started this one to talk about the Primare I32 integrated amp with the optional DAC card installed. I went to a local dealer called Aris Audio to go listen to the Exposure 2010S2 and 3010S2 integrated amps. I ended up coming home with a demo unit Primare to try out over the weekend. I wanted to see how it compared to my SX-1080 which is 35 years old but has been serviced and brought back to factory spec. Also to compare the internal DAC on the I32 to a USB upgraded and Uber'd Schiit Bifrost.

First impression of the I32 is that it is a very fast amplifier. The bass is very tight and fast and it has no problems controlling the woofers. It's sound character leans a little to the bright side from neutral. Also the soundstage moves a little closer to the listener than what I am used to. I changed the USB cable out from a pure silver Pangea to a silver plated copper Pangea to help tame the brightness. I wish I had a better copper USB cable laying at this time. This is a Class D amplifier and even being powered on for a couple of days it is only a little warm to the touch. It has no external heat sinks or vents. Primare says on their site that they are trying produce more environmentally friendlier products.

After listening awhile to several different songs I think the internal DAC on the I32 is really good and better than a stock Bifrost. But the upgraded Bifrost is better than the internal DAC by a small margin. From the O Brother, Where Art Though soundtrack's "Down to the River to Pray" by Alison Krauss the difference between the two DACs were that Alison sounded a little more like Alison moved a couple of steps more forward of the backing choir on the internal DAC over the Bifrost. On Albert King and Stevie Ray Vaughan's In Session album, "Pride and Joy" the soundstage collapsed inward compared to the Bifrost. On Diana Krall's From this Moment On album the internal DAC lacked that last bit of shimmer and resolution on the piano strings, high hats and cymbals that the upgraded Bifrost can pull off. Vocals resolution between the two DAC's is about the same. Separation of the Players and instruments is also pretty close between the two DACs.

I really like this amp but I think its overall sound presentation is a little tilted up when paired with my PM1's. I tend to like a sound character that's a little to warm side of neutral. I wish I had another set of high quality speakers that tend to be a little warmer in character to do more evaluating with. The real test will be a few days after I take it back to the dealer on Monday and see if I miss it. I know one thing I will miss will be the remote control. I am spoiled by remote controls and not having to get up out the chair to adjust things. :yes:

 

[slippers-on]

Sounds like you may have a USB cable problem. I can't give any recommendations on USB cables...you seem to have more experience than I. But if you could find the right cable you may have a real enjoyable and satisfying system. What speaker wire are in play? If they are a cable that's lively, you may want to go with a slightly warmer speaker wire if at all possible. Never heard those handsome speakers you have, but have heard plenty of B&W's and they lean a little on the lively side...that could be a reason many like Classe and McIntosh gear with them, to warm them up a tad..... so a slightly warmer speaker cable just may do the trick..but it has to be one that still lets all the goods through with no veil.

 

[Lee Harvey]

Sounds like you may have a USB cable problem. I can't give any recommendations on USB cables...you seem to have more experience than I. But if you could find the right cable you may have a real enjoyable and satisfying system. What speaker wire are in play? If they are a cable that's lively, you may want to go with a slightly warmer speaker wire if at all possible. Never heard those handsome speakers you have, but have heard plenty of B&W's and they lean a little on the lively side...that could be a reason many like Classe and McIntosh gear with them, to warm them up a tad..... so a slightly warmer speaker cable just may do the trick..but it has to be one that still lets all the goods through with no veil.

I don't think that I have a USB cable problem. I do have a Audioquest Cinnamon I could try. But I found it vailed sounding compared to the Pangea cables. But my real search is to find an integrated amp that I feel bests the SX-1080. That's why Bigerik's Exposure thread got me curious about looking at some British brands since I have British speakers.

 

[TimF]

Thanks for this bit of info. Lee! So will this be going back on Monday then, or will you hold on to it any longer to try and get a better feel for it? At any rate, thanks for the time you gave on it, and hope whatever you may be looking for, you can find it! Tim

 

[slippers-on]

I don't think that I have a USB cable problem. I do have a Audioquest Cinnamon I could try. But I found it vailed sounding compared to the Pangea cables. But my real search is to find an integrated amp that I feel bests the SX-1080. That's why Bigerik's Exposure thread got me curious about looking at some British brands since I have British speakers.

Oh my bad!...thought you were unsatisfied with the Pangea USB cables? Thats why I mentioned that as the problem...no? I have a few of their power cables and they are good on the power amps but not the same result on the source.

 

[Lee Harvey]

Thanks for this bit of info. Lee! So will this be going back on Monday then, or will you hold on to it any longer to try and get a better feel for it? At any rate, thanks for the time you gave on it, and hope whatever you may be looking for, you can find it! Tim

It's going back tomorrow. I think it is a $3K amp with DAC board installed. Without the DAC I think it drops down to around $2K. I don't need the DAC. My search is still in process so maybe I will try out one of the Exposure amps?

 

[TimF]

Actually, list price is a bit more, quite a bit more really. I got this from the rep-3K for the amp alone, the DAC option is 2K, but if purchased at the same time, 4.5K. Ouch. But, my Naim Uniti list price was around that too. But it also included a CD player and FM tuner for what it is worth, but a lot less power though at 50 wpc versus 120. Tradeoffs for sure. I got my Uniti at close-out pricing though, so really a very good deal. I would still like to hear one of the Primare I-32 though. Keep us posted on what you listen to though! Tim

 

[slippers-on]

Im wondering if the Exposure may be more neutral that the Primare? The way Erik described it, it sure sounds like it.

 

[Bigerik]

Im wondering if the Exposure may be more neutral that the Primare? The way Erik described it, it sure sounds like it.

I don't know if it is more neutral than the Primare, but it is very neutral overall. It just really didn't seem to have a sound, just incredible, crystal clarity. Very noticeable when compared to the Naim, which sounded more grainy. While more detailed than the Stingray, it was also much more forgiving of bad recordings.

I'd love to hear the Primare.

 

[Lee Harvey]

The best way I can describe the Primare is that it's FAST and detailed. Almost like a Spectral amp. The transient attacks of instruments is lightning fast. I am listening to it this morning before I take it back later this afternoon. I can't swing the $4.5K for this amp.

 

[JohnVF]

As I said in the Exposure thread, I'm running a Primare PRE-32 preamp with the DAC option. It's been here on loan for awhile and I plan on buying it (its used). As a linestage preamp it seems to be the perfect match for my T+A x1530r amplifier. Neutral but still forgiving to some extent. It adds a snap to the T+A amp, and the whole system exhibits better bass performance. It's an excellent preamp.

The DAC is good. Its the same DAC module in the I32. It's a bit redundant to me as its not as good as the Berkeley Alpha DAC (but I haven't heard anything else that is). The wireless Media streaming is not so hot. You have to use a UPnP server of your choice and it just doesn't work all that well. At least not with the two I tried (JRiver was one).

The Class-D amps are very nice but I prefer this pre running into my amp than the Primare Class-D amp. I don't recall if I heard it driving the pair of the amps that its often run with. I've auditioned this pre off and on over the last couple of months, comparing it to an ARC and Burmester pre to get a feel for it.

The things we do to get remote control....

I feel your pain about auditioning gear that you can't swing financially. I had a Plinius integrated here before the Primare and fell in love with it. It was everything I wanted in a very easily to manage size and lack of complication. And it was $6K. I just couldn't rationalize it after buying the T+A amp earlier this year for this system...that's three or four thousand over the budget I allocated for a preamp. I do think the Primare/T+A combo is slightly better, though. The Plinius was fantastic. One of the best integrated amps I have ever heard.

Good luck with your search for the perfect integrated. Its out there..and looking for it can be time consuming but a lot of fun.

 

[Bigerik]

The best way I can describe the Primare is that it's FAST and detailed. Almost like a Spectral amp. The transient attacks of instruments is lightning fast. I am listening to it this morning before I take it back later this afternoon. I can't swing the $4.5K for this amp.

The speed is addicting, isn't it? That's the first thing I heard too. Lots of people like to scoff at PRAT, but the first time you hear it, you know what you have been missing.

 

[Lee Harvey]

As I said in the Exposure thread, I'm running a Primare PRE-32 preamp with the DAC option. It's been here on loan for awhile and I plan on buying it (its used). As a linestage preamp it seems to be the perfect match for my T+A x1530r amplifier. Neutral but still forgiving to some extent. It adds a snap to the T+A amp, and the whole system exhibits better bass performance. It's an excellent preamp.

The DAC is good. Its the same DAC module in the I32. It's a bit redundant to me as its not as good as the Berkeley Alpha DAC (but I haven't heard anything else that is). The wireless Media streaming is not so hot. You have to use a UPnP server of your choice and it just doesn't work all that well. At least not with the two I tried (JRiver was one).

The Class-D amps are very nice but I prefer this pre running into my amp than the Primare Class-D amp. I don't recall if I heard it driving the pair of the amps that its often run with. I've auditioned this pre off and on over the last couple of months, comparing it to an ARC and Burmester pre to get a feel for it.

The things we do to get remote control....

I feel your pain about auditioning gear that you can't swing financially. I had a Plinius integrated here before the Primare and fell in love with it. It was everything I wanted in a very easily to manage size and lack of complication. And it was $6K. I just couldn't rationalize it after buying the T+A amp earlier this year for this system...that's three or four thousand over the budget I allocated for a preamp. I do think the Primare/T+A combo is slightly better, though. The Plinius was fantastic. One of the best integrated amps I have ever heard.

Good luck with your search for the perfect integrated. Its out there..and looking for it can be time consuming but a lot of fun.

The remote control is addicting. I expect one on my home theater receiver but I have never had one in a 2-channel rig before. Which Plinius integrated amp did you audition? Also about what was it's price? This dealer that let me demo the Primare is also a Plinius dealer.

 

[JohnVF]

The remote control is addicting. I expect one on my home theater receiver but I have never had one in a 2-channel rig before. Which Plinius integrated amp did you audition? Also about what was it's price? This dealer that let me demo the Primare is also a Plinius dealer.

It was a Plinius Hautonga. A really nice amp, incredibly solid build but not to the point of ridiculousness. Which means it wasn't so big as to make running an integrated no better than separates from a space standpoint. List was $6000 (well, 5995...) and I think it was worth every penny, except that I didn't have that much coin to spend on an integrated. They have models lower down the lineup I think, but I haven't heard them (one of the previous ones sold on BT here for a great price recently). The problem for me, also, in that price point is that I'm getting into what I really want...the Leben CS-600. Actually, if I'd have just been patient instead of buying a modern separates system used a piece at a time, I could have the Leben...or speakers efficient enough for my CS-300.

The Plinius also had a very nice onboard phono stage if 47k loading would work with your cart. I'm using a Juicy Music Tercel II with the Primare for phono.

I'm getting a good used-price deal on the Primare so its not so much of a gamble. If I grow out of it I can get all or most of what I have in it.

 

[Lee Harvey]

The speed is addicting, isn't it? That's the first thing I heard too. Lots of people like to scoff at PRAT, but the first time you hear it, you know what you have been missing.

Yes, speed can be addicting. Some tube amps seem to slow things down but this amp is the opposite. Almost Warp Speed like.

 

[Lee Harvey]

It was a Plinius Hautonga. A really nice amp, incredibly solid build but not to the point of ridiculousness. Which means it wasn't so big as to make running an integrated no better than separates from a space standpoint. List was $6000 (well, 5995...) and I think it was worth every penny, except that I didn't have that much coin to spend on an integrated. They have models lower down the lineup I think, but I haven't heard them (one of the previous ones sold on BT here for a great price recently). The problem for me, also, in that price point is that I'm getting into what I really want...the Leben CS-600. Actually, if I'd have just been patient instead of buying a modern separates system used a piece at a time, I could have the Leben...or speakers efficient enough for my CS-300.

The Plinius also had a very nice onboard phono stage if 47k loading would work with your cart. I'm using a Juicy Music Tercel II with the Primare for phono.

I'm getting a good used-price deal on the Primare so its not so much of a gamble. If I grow out of it I can get all or most of what I have in it.

Thanks John for the info. At those price points you are into Leben range which is another amp I would really love to hear. But I would have to make a different speaker choice. Skylab and few others use the CS-300 as a killer headphone amp. We will have to wait and see what I come home with this evening to evaluate. Maybe one of the Exposures or one of the Plinius. I will update later what my next amp is to try out.

 

[Bigerik]

Yes, speed can be addicting. Some tube amps seem to slow things down but this amp is the opposite. Almost Warp Speed like.

Yup. And my Stingray is renowned as a very fast tube amp.

 

[Lee Harvey]

I took back the Primare this afternoon and came home with the Exposure 2010S2 to try out for a couple of days. While I was at Aris Audio I got a chance to listen to the Plinius Hautonga. Wow, JohnVF was right. This is a very nice amp. It's quiet, detailed, transparent and totally balanced. No frequency range was exaggerated or recessed. It's one of the best amps I have ever heard.

I have the Exposure hooked up this evening and playing continuous music overnight so it will be good and warmed up for tomorrow.

 

[slippers-on]

Good! This will be interesting..

 

[Bigerik]

I look forward to your impressions. I haven't spent near as much time with the 2010S2. Good idea letting it run. I've never heard a SS amp change as much as the 3010S2 did over the first day or two. No, I don't get it, but it sure was noticeable.