ProAc Studio 118

[Art K.]

Good to see you are still enjoying the 118's, Dan. I wouldn't mind getting a hot rodded SL1200 either. Still don't want to give up the RP6 though. Also would love to have a tube amps to swap out from time to time. make for a lovely space heater during the long winter months...lol!

 

[Fusion]

I'm not sure that the 1200 would outperform a mid-range Rega, Art, but I'm just about all out of desire to eek out the last bit of resolution from my system. I know I'll never hit the heights that some with unlimited resources can. My system swings and is fun to listen to, and probably gets me 90% of the way there. I could continue down the rabbit hole but I know I'd probably mess things up. When you get your system sounding great then changes will probably only take you in the wrong direction.

I like your situation. You have a killer 1st system that you probably won't change, and a second system that allows you to tinker with different gear to achieve different sounds.

I'll have to hear the 1200 vs. a Rega to know for sure if I can live with it. It's just an intriguing table because it's so good at certain things. There are other things that it's not great at but you can improve on those. Vinyl isn't my main source anyways so I can probably live with some compromise...but time will tell. Rega tables sound really good and I'm happy to stick with them if I prefer the sound.

I picked up an Audio Space Galaxy 34. Had one before and liked it a lot. Got a good deal on a demo unit from a local dealer. What sold me was just how great it sounded in their store, on Audio Space speakers. It always sounded a little too thin in my home when I had one, but it had amazing resolution and drive. I just missed a little body and weight. After the demo I knew that the amp can muster it. I'll also be able to roll some different tubes. I confirmed with a local tech that EL34, 6L6, KT77, KT66 can be used safely, so I have some options there. I'll probably start with a good 6L6 tube.

The Rogue amp was just a little too lifeless sounding at times, despite sounding magical at other moments. I think it just needs more efficient speakers to be honest. The little B60 is kind of my reference point...if an amp doesn't match up to it in my system then there is no point in keeping it.

 

[schmidtmike7]

Im still on the fence now with the 148's or the D18's. Im looking for a little slam and a good mid range for my choice of music. I have time to make that final decision but these 118's are so good its slowing me down.

 

[Fusion]

Listening to the 118's being driven by the Audio Space 34 and I am blown away. Having listened to the B60R for a good long while now I was used to the sound. And it sounded perfect and was a combo I was very happy with.

The 34 is a little harder and grittier sounding (from what I've read, this is part of the sound of EL34 tubes). But the sound is now more immediate and present in the room. The biggest change is an increase in transparency...like a veil has been lifted and I can better hear the various instruments and it's easier to follow their progression and interactions with each other. As a result, music has a flow that wasn't missing before, but it now really shines through.

Pretty cool, and these are with the stock tubes. I will replace the 6SN7 and 6SL7 tubes with NOS RCA's that I have lying around. The power tubes I'm not sure yet. I can go either EL34/KT77/6L6GC/KT66. I'm leaning towards new production Gold Lion KT66 tubes...I gather I'll get a bit less snarl and grit, and a more extended bottom end.

 

[pyrrhon]

Heard a hegel h80 today with proac d20r and was totally impressed! Was it the speakers or the amp that stood out that much I can't say but It was shockingly good. There must be a very strong synergy with proac and hegel. The dealer offered me to bring my naim to compare! That shook my world a bit, maybe I shouldn't have listened. Now I fear ill start shopping again.

 

[pyrrhon]

I've let the dust settle and listened again to the same songs at home this morning. First thing is proac d20r didn't show bass at low level listenings. I also recall that trying acdc we quickly switched it off agreeing how horrible the recording is. But this morning I think I've been lured by the seller into playing songs that suits the d20r at volumes where bass appeared. Now that I listen to acdc on the studio line at low volumes I'm not impressed anymore with my yesterday experiment. I don't like a speaker to dictate me what I should listen to and at what volume. But still under special conditions d20r was delightfull.

Fusion, please be sure to go back to b60r after a while to give it this Freshness again!

 

[Fusion]

Hmm, interesting. I wonder if there was a setup issue with the D20R...though I notice you aren't saying it doesn't have bass, just not enough at low volumes.

The B60R will stay; I love the amp too much to sell it. But, I am really enjoying the Audio Space. Tubes and ProAc are a great match and this amp gives a really clean view into each performance, allowing me to hear each individual part but presenting them in a way where they fit together. So if I want to focus on one thing I can, but then I can pull back and listen to what all of those parts are doing together. I'm now leaning towards a quad of Shuguang Treasure 6CA7 tubes, along with my NOS RCA's. I am digging the EL34 sound more than I thought I might.

 

[pyrrhon]

Hmm, interesting. I wonder if there was a setup issue with the D20R...though I notice you aren't saying it doesn't have bass, just not enough at low volumes.

The B60R will stay; I love the amp too much to sell it. But, I am really enjoying the Audio Space. Tubes and ProAc are a great match and this amp gives a really clean view into each performance, allowing me to hear each individual part but presenting them in a way where they fit together. So if I want to focus on one thing I can, but then I can pull back and listen to what all of those parts are doing together. I'm now leaning towards a quad of Shuguang Treasure 6CA7 tubes, along with my NOS RCA's. I am digging the EL34 sound more than I thought I might.

In my tube setup after trying 6 power tubes and 3 preamp, I really love the gold lion kt66 more then any el34. Best preamp was nos rca. El34, if you play guitar, it likes to be saturated and over driven but kt66 is iMO more hifi. But it really all depends on the amp !

 

[schmidtmike7]

In my tube setup after trying 6 power tubes and 3 preamp, I really love the gold lion kt66 more then any el34. Best preamp was nos rca. El34, if you play guitar, it likes to be saturated and over driven but kt66 is iMO more hifi. But it really all depends on the amp !

We'll here are the 148's and they sound more well rounded than there baby brothers. Let's see after some break in

 

[Art K.]

We'll here are the 148's and they sound more well rounded than there baby brothers. Let's see after some break in

Nice. Running Cyrus gear with them?

 

[schmidtmike7]

Yes Art Iam. New Cyrus Pre2 DacQx Stereo 200 right now sony blu ray as a transport which is doing a excellent job. they really do look lovely. I have them streaming while im on night shifts tonight.

 

[Fusion]

Sweet. Looking forward to your impressions. The Cyrus stuff looks interesting. We don't have too many dealers with that line around these parts.

For the size of room I have the 118 does the job well (though a small floor stander would also work and I am sometimes tempted). I sit only 6' away from my speakers. How far back is your listening position?

 

[schmidtmike7]

Im about 10 feet back from them. The imaging is spot on with these as well. When i get home Im not going to listen Im going to let them play until I rise about 2-3 in the afternoon, currently 1248 AM thats a long way yet!!!

 

[pyrrhon]

Yes Art Iam. New Cyrus Pre2 DacQx Stereo 200 right now sony blu ray as a transport which is doing a excellent job. they really do look lovely. I have them streaming while im on night shifts tonight.

Sorry mike, but looking at the picture you have blocked the bottom port of the speaker. I had to post that question to make sure you dont do that sorry but I cant take for granted that youll setup everything correctly. I put mine on spikes on small granite plates.

Since I had mine for 10 months I can say that the sound evolves steadily toward a controlled and tigh bass for many months. I have compared with my older spendors s6e that I keep with exactly the same setup and position. The s6e has a bit more bass slam but the 148 are far more revealing of the subtle things like echoes, sustained notes and harmonics. A side by side comparison makes the 148 much more balanced, neutral and involving. Really no contest. Another thing for the interested, I have upgraded the 5si to a superuniti and its totally different, the superuniti is really a lot more refined and rounded and matches really better to the proacs then 5si (and xs2 I would speculate). The bass improves lovely too with more power making me want to say that despite beeing drivable with low watts the bass gains a lot from more power. 80+ watts Id say to make everything in control.

 

[schmidtmike7]

Sorry mike, but looking at the picture you have blocked the bottom port of the speaker. I had to post that question to make sure you dont do that sorry but I cant take for granted that youll setup everything correctly. I put mine on spikes on small granite plates.

Since I had mine for 10 months I can say that the sound evolves steadily toward a controlled and tigh bass for many months. I have compared with my older spendors s6e that I keep with exactly the same setup and position. The s6e has a bit more bass slam but the 148 are far more revealing of the subtle things like echoes, sustained notes and harmonics. A side by side comparison makes the 148 much more balanced, neutral and involving. Really no contest. Another thing for the interested, I have upgraded the 5si to a superuniti and its totally different, the superuniti is really a lot more refined and rounded and matches really better to the proacs then 5si (and xs2 I would speculate). The bass improves lovely too with more power making me want to say that despite beeing drivable with low watts the bass gains a lot from more power. 80+ watts Id say to make everything in control.

Sorry for the late reply I was on holidays.

I do have the spikes on the bottom that carpet is plush. Maybe I should lift them a bit more to let them breathe a bit. Thanks for the heads up I missed that one. I do find them boomy and thick

 

[brutalissimo]

Hi Fusion
Interesting to follow your route with the Proacs, congrats to good sound! I run my D twos with a Lyngdorf TDAI 2170. The D twos utilize all the power, accuracy and neutrality delivered by the 2170, and since the speakers come with a hint of warmth (even if they basically are very neutral) it seems to be a good match with this 100% neutral amp.

 

[Fusion]

Hi Fusion
Interesting to follow your route with the Proacs, congrats to good sound! I run my D twos with a Lyngdorf TDAI 2170. The D twos utilize all the power, accuracy and neutrality delivered by the 2170, and since the speakers come with a hint of warmth (even if they basically are very neutral) it seems to be a good match with this 100% neutral amp.

Thanks! That's an interesting amp that you are using. I've always loved the D Two. I bet the combo sounds great.

I'm still thrilled with the sound of the 118's. They sounded great with solid state, even better with tubes, and upgrading to NOS RFT EL34 tubes and NOS RCA 6SN7 and 6SL7 has taken the sound to another level. It's added a richness that I especially notice in the tone of guitars. Drums also, which feel like there is more impact and weight to each pulse.

ProAc are usually pretty easy to drive...one may be able to get away with light powered SET amps even, though I think moderately powered pp amps are ideal if you run them with tubes. I like the flexibility they offer in that regard. And I love the sound...so open, clear, and balanced.

 

[pyrrhon]

Sorry for the late reply I was on holidays.

I do have the spikes on the bottom that carpet is plush. Maybe I should lift them a bit more to let them breathe a bit. Thanks for the heads up I missed that one. I do find them boomy and thick

I'm afraid you can't enjoy these speakers at all with the position I see on your picture. I will tell you the they imperatively need 24+ inches from rear wall. Be ready to fall off your chair when you do that, these speakers have such a focused and detailed bass. With my speakers that close to rear wall I'd have sold them long ago. Bass is always hard to control when generous like these but the comment friends say first when they listen to my system is how tight and dry the bass is. It's all but boomy. I'm not saying that lightly, I tried to push them back but it instantly makes a boomy overblown bass. Once you pull them 2 foot or more from wall be ready for a shock ; )

 

[pyrrhon]

Mike,

I went to home depot and got 12' granite tiles then to office depot and got 12' cork board, very cheap then you put granite with cork on top. I do That for my amp too to stop vibrations. Im on hard Wood so i go cork-granite-cork. With the speaker spike on granite its slippery.

Since your on carpet its a bit complicated because your speaker may be unstable. Im very confident That your sound thickness is a result of too close wall and port obstruction. In fact im 100% certain it is. I hope you can enjoy your system as much as you should.

 

[schmidtmike7]

Mike,

I went to home depot and got 12' granite tiles then to office depot and got 12' cork board, very cheap then you put granite with cork on top. I do That for my amp too to stop vibrations. Im on hard Wood so i go cork-granite-cork. With the speaker spike on granite its slippery.

Since your on carpet its a bit complicated because your speaker may be unstable. Im very confident That your sound thickness is a result of too close wall and port obstruction. In fact im 100% certain it is. I hope you can enjoy your system as much as you should.

Mike,

I went to home depot and got 12' granite tiles then to office depot and got 12' cork board, very cheap then you put granite with cork on top. I do That for my amp too to stop vibrations. Im on hard Wood so i go cork-granite-cork. With the speaker spike on granite its slippery.

Since your on carpet its a bit complicated because your speaker may be unstable. Im very confident That your sound thickness is a result of too close wall and port obstruction. In fact im 100% certain it is. I hope you can enjoy your system as much as you should.