Quad ESLs - your amplifier experiences

Well, I will be my own guinea pig. I ordered a silver PrimaLuna Dialogue Premium power amplifier. It should be here Wednesday. It comes with EL-34s, but I also ordered a set of KT-120s. I can hardly wait.

:music:
 
I've discovered that the Fosgate phono preamp is OK - happy day. :)

I've also given the Adcom some more listening time, and it sounds somewhat better. I don't know if it was:
1. Running music through the amp a couple of days improved the sound it produces, and/or
2. Running music through the amp a couple of days got me accustomed to the sound it produces, and/or
3. My mood improved, and/or
4. A cable change on the SACD player (from Kimber Hero to AQ King Cobra).

My initial listening was done with the SACD player, since I thought the Fosgate was dead, and the Adcom sounded terrible really, veiled and harsh at the same time, with a disjointed soundstage. Replacing the cable back to my standard King Cobra the next day, and/or all of the above, cured almost all of that. It still sounds a little hashy on busy percussion, with bongos and hand-claps kinda taking over on some songs on O'Samba, for instance. But it sounds much more civilized and coherent than at first listen. Not up to any of the Lux's, or the Hafler for that matter, from memory. But OK. Mine is unrestored, YMMV.

Really looking forward to the PrimaLuna!
 
Have had ESL63s and the later generation, which was essentially the same speaker with a stiffer cabinet system around the same electronics. I've run mine with high-power solid state amps (Hafler XL-600 and P-500) along with some of the vintage gear already discussed (MC-225, MC-75 pair, etc). All work quite nicely thank you.

Why use high power SS amps? Here's the logic: ESL63s have an arc protection circuit that, when activated, will shut down the speaker and throw a dead 2 ohm resistance across the speaker terminals. So, if a fuse is installed in the amp output, you can select a value that will blow when about 100 watts is being used into a 2 ohm load. This means that you'll protect the amp from harm if there's a problem with the amp. Choosing the 100 watt level means that the speakers themselves should not be arcing so there's little chance of damaging something with higher power - it will just blow the fuse!

I had to rebuild my ESL's when I got them. My sense is that the panels will last about 20 years or so, depending on the environment they live in (average humidity, avg temp, etc). Also, on the ESL's the foam strips used to isolate the panels from the cabinet will deteriorate over that time so a full rebuild after that 20 year point is advised in order to know they're going to work. The cost of a full rebuild means that you _really_ need to be ready to keep the speakers for a loooong time to get the value out of them.

Revealing? Yes, you'll be able to hear back into the audio signal chain. This means you'll be able to determine the sonic characteristics of a power or preamp as you swap them out. This has been a good thing for me as I restore an old amp or preamp. I can hear the changes to each stage as I do so.

Placement? Yes, gotta have 'em off the wall and standing along for them to shine. Plan on it.

Needs a subwoof? Nope. Fully restored, my experience is that ESL63s will do just fine if you've got the placement and room right.

Hope that helps.

Cheers,

David
 
Thanks, David.

My PrimaLuna Dialogue Premium tube power amp is here. So far, I've tried 2 of the 12 combinations (3 taps * 2 tube types * 2 circuit types) I have available.

With the stock EL-34s, in Ultralinear, the 16 ohm tap sounds very romantic (or dark and syrupy...), and the 4 ohm tap sounds best so far for very well recorded albums, but a little aggressive on poorer recordings. I may have several "Goldilocks and the Three Bears" experiences ahead of me!
 
Bumping this thread as I'm about to receive a pair of the original ESL's (the 57's) on Saturday!

For now, I'll be able to run it on either:

Sherbourn PA 2-50 - integrated amp (Emotiva). 50 wpc, class A/B.

Peachtree Decco2 integrated. I believe it's 40 wpc using MOSFET's.

These 57's have no protection, so will keep the volume low.

Soon, I think I'll have an old Packard Bell console amp to power them with. It uses EL-34's. Just a little guy, maybe 8-15 watt output? Hope that will be enough?! If not I'll likely be looking at a Dynaco ST-70 or maybe a Fisher tube receiver. Or who knows...maybe one of the recommendations above. I'm hoping the Packard Bell works out for now, honestly!
 
Bumping this thread as I'm about to receive a pair of the original ESL's (the 57's) on Saturday!

For now, I'll be able to run it on either:

Sherbourn PA 2-50 - integrated amp (Emotiva). 50 wpc, class A/B.

Peachtree Decco2 integrated. I believe it's 40 wpc using MOSFET's.

These 57's have no protection, so will keep the volume low.

Soon, I think I'll have an old Packard Bell console amp to power them with. It uses EL-34's. Just a little guy, maybe 8-15 watt output? Hope that will be enough?! If not I'll likely be looking at a Dynaco ST-70 or maybe a Fisher tube receiver. Or who knows...maybe one of the recommendations above. I'm hoping the Packard Bell works out for now, honestly!

8-15 watts will take them within two clicks of as loud as they can go. For my listening style, it's more than enough.
 
FWIW, with the PrimaLuna Dialogue Premium power amp, I've pretty much settled on KT-120s, on the 16 ohm tap, usually in triode mode. To me, triode sounds more organic, and ultralinear more 'hi-fi' (in the less complimentary sense).
 
I've got the ESL 63's. I've used a Hafler DH-220; nice, a little 2d maybe, Kenwood 500 Supreme; sweet sounding, Dynaco MkIII's outputs wired in triode mode; excellent, wish they had more power, McIntosh MC275; a real good pairing, but it took some time to get the sound right by tube rolling the first few input tubes. MC30's; Great sound, though a bit limited in power. Spooky real midrange, though.

I'd be happy driving the Quads with any of those amps, but I'm currently using the MC30's, which were restored within the last year or two.

jD
 
Still considering an amp for these Quad 57's, on a limited budget. Possibilities are an old Packard Bell console amp (restored, $300) or an Eico ST-40 (unrestored, $200). Or save up for something like a Dynaco or even a modern amp like a Rogue or Primaluna...but that would have to wait until at least next spring, where I could get one of the cheaper ones right now...

Tube preamp project is nearing completion (phase 1 anyway) so will be fun to hear that feeding the SS amp. Interested to see how much of a difference I can hear.
 
ESL 57's here. I got mine from my uncle, who powered them for probably 30 years with an Onkyo TX-4500. I have the Onkyo, which works well, but I prefer the RCA EL84 console pull I got a while ago.
I was always surprised that the Onkyo could handle the 57's, considering their reputation for being so picky with amps. What's so special about the TX-4500?
 
Just received a Heathkit SA-2 (supposedly same output transformers as the UA-1, which people say is a good match). 14 wpc, running on 8 ohm taps. At lower volume, sounds great. The timbre/realism is very, very good. I think the amp runs out of steam as you get louder...it starts to sound quite grainy and even distorted. At least I'm not paranoid about arcing like I was with the 50 wpc SS amp.

Will likely try the 4 ohm and 16 ohm taps as well.

The graininess is likely the amp running out of steam, correct? Also, it's a fresh rebuild, with new caps...I don't know if capacitor break-in is a thing.

Keeping the SS amp around for now, for comparison. I have the option of putting a tube preamp in front of it.

Does anyone have a recommendation on which taps to use on the tube amp, or just trial and error?
 
Placement? Yes, gotta have 'em off the wall and standing along for them to shine. Plan on it.

From my limited experience with these wonderful speakers and I do hate to say it but placement matters as much as amplification. I knew an audiophile who was downsizing and the ESLs sounded very decent with the QUAD 405-2. The Adcom 535 lacks any speaker protection I'd avoid using it.
 
Well. I did switch to the 16 ohm taps. No noticeable difference in sound. I was bummed.

I had a sour attitude about the whole situation all of last night and today. How could this amp/speaker combo be so crappy? The SA-2 was supposed to be like two UA-1 monoblocks, and I had heard good reviews pairing those with the Quads? I had heard from well-respected members that the SA-2 was a "GREAT" sounding amp. What gives?

10 minutes ago I flipped a switch and all seems to be well now. I am running everything through a voltage regulator and Furman power conditioner.

I had the regulator set to 110V...thinking old tube gear liked a little bit lower voltage. I'm sure the guy who built the Heathkit set it up to work best on a more modern 120V.

Night and day difference! I was so disgusted with the sound I was about ready to give up on the Quads and on tube amps both! It sounded REALLY, REALLY bad...flabby, uncontrolled bass, the whole mid-bass was distorted and congested...vocals and highs were pretty good, but sometimes grainy.

This amp likes a full 120V! It sounds great now with the Quads! Detail, clarity, bass is actually controlled. Whew!
 
The Quads have a jumper (that actually looks like a dial, but it doesn't turn) for 110v, 120v, 220v and 240v.

My bronze pair were set for 240v, which would be correct for England, but not here. Make sure yours is set right! I'm glad you're getting better sound!

:music:
 
The Quads have a jumper (that actually looks like a dial, but it doesn't turn) for 110v, 120v, 220v and 240v.

My bronze pair were set for 240v, which would be correct for England, but not here. Make sure yours is set right! I'm glad you're getting better sound!

:music:
Pretty sure I checked that already but I'll double check!

I still think I can get better sound out of these Quads. For the most part they're sounding good now...much better. The sound was truly awful before I upped the voltage to that amp. I know us audiophiles can tend to "nit pick" the sound but this was not nit-picking...the sound was worse than $20 speakers that I bought off Craigslist.

I'm still not loving the bass sometimes, but I have no room to mess with placement in my office...they must be shoved in corners. The right speaker has at least a little breathing room behind it (pulled out further from the corner, about 32" from center of panel to corner). The left one is pretty tight to the corner (about 14" from center of panel to corner, also at a different angle to the corner). I was running a subwoofer with the SS amp, haven't hooked it up yet with the tube amp...that definitely did kick the bass up several notches, but it was also noticeable (sometimes) that there was a subwoofer hooked up. Will probably hook it up again when I have time...need to use the speaker level connections on it with the tube amp, so need to make more speaker wire. Also I have a few small foam panels to mess with...maybe making some bass traps is the thing to do...I don't know squat about room treatment, will have to look into that.

Anyway, glad they're at least listenable now, and for the most part, sounding quite good! Certain parts of certain tracks still sound like rubbish for some reason...but good for the most part. I don't think this will be the "forever" amp with the Quads, but the price was right for now. Going to experiment with it vs. the SS amp/DIY tube pre. If I end up liking the SS more, I guess I'll have to spring for the protection boards for the Quads.
 
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Speaker-level sub connections are a good way to go, ime. I set the sub's low-pass filter low, like 40-50 Hz.
You are leaving them plugged in, right? Some pairs need hours or even days to charge up fully. They can be damaged by playing them un-charged.
Maybe toss a few pillows behind them, if they must stay close to the walls/corners, and see it that helps.
 
Yeah, they have been plugged in since I got them. Good idea on the pillows, before investing anything in treatments. Sounding good at the moment! A little "She and Him" and Zooey Deschanel is in the room (got a big crush on her, I'll admit it).
 
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