Recapping B&W 802 Series 80

I've done that job and wound up using bipolar electrolytics (from Parts Express maybe?). There was just no room for films in that little cubby underneath, and many of the values were huge.

I did not bypass the 1,000 uFs, but several people have recommended doing so, and I still may do so.

I also bypassed the APOC circuit.
 
75s in polypropylene would be huge. I'm seeing 45 x 75 mm. Would they even fit?

I am not sure - that thought crossed my mind, too. So I will definitely need to open the cabinets and inspect further before I proceed. Assuming that they would, is there a legitimate reason not to use them? Would one expect better sonics by using multiple elctrolytics to get the correct value, or a single polypropylene?
 
I think electrolytics would be closer to stock. Film caps might improve the sound but they might not. Here is what B&W says about caps:

http://hifi.goneill.co.nz/bwfaqn.php

We usually find that customers who alter crossover components are not fully satisfied with the results. They find that some aspects are improved, but others made worse. A classic case of this is when a polypropylene or other very low-loss type substitutes an electrolytic capacitor. We all know that polypropylene capacitors can sound inherently better, but the change in internal losses changes the response of the filter, which is designed assuming the losses of the electrolytic component. What usually happens when the low loss component is fitted is that the corners of the roll-off are sharpened, giving a peak in the combined response that can make the sound unpleasant in various ways depending on the crossover frequency. One way of getting round this is to wire a small resistor in series with the capacitor to approximate the original losses. I say approximate because the loss factor is a frequency dependent resistance. The actual value you need depends on the original capacitor loss factor and its capacitance value. The larger the value, the lower the resistance for a given loss factor.

The formula for the equivalent resistance is:

R = d / (2π fC)

where R = resistance in ohms, d = loss factor, f = frequency in Hz and C = capacitance in farads.

Loss factor is usually expressed as a percentage at 1kHz. For a "low-loss" electrolytic such as the values between 1μF and 20μF found in tweeter circuits, d is of the order of 0.025 (loss factor of 2.5%). For values in the hundreds of microfarads it may be of the order of 0.07 or 7%. Typically therefore a good electrolytic capacitor of 5μF would have an equivalent series resistance of 0.8Ω. If the capacitor has a much larger resistor in series with it anyway, it's probably not worth altering.

...

As you can see, it's a potential minefield and difficult to get the optimum result without proper measuring facilities. Adjustment just by ear tends to give good results on limited programme material and you can usually come across some other piece that sounds less than acceptable.
 
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I think electrolytics would be closer to stock. Film caps might improve the sound but they might not. Here is what B&W says about caps:

http://hifi.goneill.co.nz/bwfaqn.php

I must admit the talk here about not using polypropylene caps has me a little bit concerned.

Last week I posted a thread about recapping my B&W DM6's. Yesterday I ordered the caps, they are all metalized polypropylene. I am using Axons for C1 and C2 (could have went with Mundorf bipolar electrolytics). I choose Solen Fast Cap PBs for C3 thru C8. I think that C3 is the most critical and it is a large value at 35uf so it could be a bipolar elctrolytic.

See scheamtic attached (my version does not have the transformer).

- Bob
 

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I must admit the talk here about not using polypropylene caps has me a little bit concerned.

Last week I posted a thread about recapping my B&W DM6's. Yesterday I ordered the caps, they are all metalized polypropylene. I am using Axons for C1 and C2 (could have went with Mundorf bipolar electrolytics). I choose Solen Fast Cap PBs for C3 thru C8. I think that C3 is the most critical and it is a large value at 35uf so it could be a bipolar elctrolytic.

See scheamtic attached (my version does not have the transformer).

- Bob
For all of those that are in parallel you could have used a single cap. A 50uF and a 30uF in parallel could be replaced by a single 80uF. I hadn't seen the schematic until now. If they were my speakers I'd use the Axon and Solen caps over the Mundorf electrolytic caps. I'd use the Mundorfs if there were size or cost constraints only.

Everyone has their own opinion on these matters.
 
For all of those that are in parallel you could have used a single cap. A 50uF and a 30uF in parallel could be replaced by a single 80uF. I hadn't seen the schematic until now. If they were my speakers I'd use the Axon and Solen caps over the Mundorf electrolytic caps. I'd use the Mundorfs if there were size or cost constraints only.

Everyone has their own opinion on these matters.

If I recall, the 50uf and 30uf were slightly cheaper than two 40's or one 80.

In the other cases, take for example the two 2.2uf in parallel, I preferred maintaining the exact design versus a single 4.7 uf ... I am trying to get the values as close as possible to the original - even with a slight increase in cost.

I did open the speaker box and verify my crossover matches the schematic. That led me to ponder the missing LF transformer which I read was removed by B&W after the first year or so of production (apparently it was giving some amplifiers fits).

I verified size is not a constraint. I feel I did my research, most of which extolled the virtues of metal poly caps ... so now I wait for them to come in and do the mod.

I will let you know in about a week how it turned out.

thanks, Bob
 
If I recall, the 50uf and 30uf were slightly cheaper than two 40's or one 80.

In the other cases, take for example the two 2.2uf in parallel, I preferred maintaining the exact design versus a single 4.7 uf ... I am trying to get the values as close as possible to the original - even with a slight increase in cost.

I did open the speaker box and verify my crossover matches the schematic. That led me to ponder the missing LF transformer which I read was removed by B&W after the first year or so of production (apparently it was giving some amplifiers fits).

I verified size is not a constraint. I feel I did my research, most of which extolled the virtues of metal poly caps ... so now I wait for them to come in and do the mod.

I will let you know in about a week how it turned out.

thanks, Bob
Provided you've got the space for the larger caps you'll be in great shape. Those transformers are kinda old school. Good luck with the soldering. Looking forward to your thoughts when you're done. Chances are you'll be able to hear some details you couldn't before, but that would be true replacing any set of old caps like that with newer ones.
 
Personally , I would approach this in one of two ways

Go with electrolytic caps if you want to keep the speakers looking stock and would be cheaper to do

Or

Price no object - build external XOs and have room for poly caps and 'better' inductors
 
Thanks - that's actually where I found the schematic.

I am not too worried about cost, but I don't want to make any changes that might compromise the sound quality, either. These are my favorite speakers that I have ever owned.
 
Old thread, but not a lot of info on these. Anyone still out there that can help with some questions?

What does the 1000 uf cap do in the bass circuit (and why would disconnecting it improve sound)

Would bypassing the APOC circuit put amp in danger?

I want to recap, but with new electrolytic of original specs.
 
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