Record Cleaning: Developing the Best Possible Methods

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Afraid I have no chemistry knowledge :( and would appreciate a little help.

I can't find any UK supplier for Hepastat 256 anywhere and I spent many hours searching for this without any luck, without importing it. I wonder if anyone, especially from the UK, can make any suggestion.

However I wonder, if quat is a key ingredient of Hepastat, would this product be ok http://www.impact-supplies.co.uk/webshop-search/?Page_ID=3610&refpid=4&id=750721

The MSDS for this can be downloaded from here https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/cdn.webfactore.co.uk/sr_645888.pdf
 
Hepastat and the quaternary cleaner I use, Virex II 256, are more likely to be found in a hospital or medical supply stores versus standard janitorial supply houses. They are amazing at killing a number of very nasty viruses so are used to clean doctors offices, hospitals and research labs. They are routinely used to de-bug the surfaces (hand rails, elevator buttons, door handles, etc) on cruise ships to minimize illnesses. Very often you fill find "256", the standard dilution ratio for cleaning, in the product's name. Hope this helps.
 
^^^ The "distilled water and isopropyl alcohol only" mix does not sheet very well in an ultrasonic tank. The mix beads up as the vinyl rotates up out of the tank and then back down. I added a few drops of the old formula to this "distilled water and isopropyl alcohol" mix and the water sheeted nicely. I just don't know how much is enough.


Of COURSE it will bead up! Add some Triton X. DON'T use dish detergent. I cringe every time I read about someone "swearing" by the use of it.
 
Just occurred to me for those not using metric the US gallon and the imperial gallon are n to quite the same
of course the same goes for old school quarts etc.
Both gallons have 4 quarts but with the imperial system there is 40 ounces to a quart versus 32 for the US. Therefore the imperial gallon has 5 quarts US.
 
I can update my spreadsheets to include versions with the new formula and share on Sunday.

@phantomrebel - are you no longer recommending the addition of edta?

I'm not suggesting this is any magic formula, just that good results can be achieved with less in our recent experience. As to the EDTA, there is a small amount already in the Hepastat product. If you are using de-ionized water throughout, and pure reagents, I don't feel there is much need for additional chelator. OTOH, if you are hand washing and initially rinsing with filtered tap water, or storing solutions for extended periods, I would include it.

Afraid I have no chemistry knowledge :( and would appreciate a little help.

I can't find any UK supplier for Hepastat 256 anywhere and I spent many hours searching for this without any luck, without importing it. I wonder if anyone, especially from the UK, can make any suggestion.
However I wonder, if quat is a key ingredient of Hepastat, would this product be ok http://www.impact-supplies.co.uk/webshop-search/?Page_ID=3610&refpid=4&id=750721
The MSDS for this can be downloaded from here https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/cdn.webfactore.co.uk/sr_645888.pdf
The MSDS shows it contains a non-ionic detergent (unspecified alcohol alkoxylate) along with some quats (one being Benzalkonium Chloride, which we have discussed using previously in this thread). It appears the solution is more dilute than Hepastat, containing 2-10% quat and 1-5% non-ionic, so you will dilute less. Still enough dilution that I wouldn't be concerned about the high pH of the stock (10) however. Looks like it could work very well and definitely worth giving a try. Let us know how it works out!

Of COURSE it will bead up! Add some Triton X. DON'T use dish detergent. I cringe every time I read about someone "swearing" by the use of it.
LOL. You and me both brother! Surfactants can greatly aid in the US cleaning process. I'm not sure whether this is due to the effect reducing surface tension has on cavitation as some suggest (I'm no physicist), but records come out cleaner when they are included. The tricky part comes later, in the subsequent drying step. Using anionic dish soap and wiping with a cloth is a proven recipe for static build up. There is some benefit to wiping with a softened cloth (quat-treated) but I personally prefer a vacuum method as it minimizes exposure. So one CAN use dish detergent in a US tank effectively, as long as they have a means to deal with the subsequent handling.
Speaking of static and wiping, I recently experimented with materials made with Thunderon (copper sulfide infused fibers developed by Nihon Sanmo in Japan). The conductive brushes made by Gordon Brush that combine Thunderon with Goat hair work very well at reducing static charge on records while removing light surface dust. They come in a variety of sizes, and places like Sleeve City and Acoustic Sounds have them at available marked up prices (Gordon Brush is much less, but requires a minimum qty 6 order and other industrial supply houses require min $50 orders). Either way, brushes offer much less cost and greater convenience over the folder apparatus with this fiber sold by Furutech (their SK-X-III at around $450).
 
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I'm not suggesting this is any magic formula, just that good results can be achieved with less in our recent experience. As to the EDTA, there is a small amount already in the Hepastat product. If you are using de-ionized water throughout, and pure reagents, I don't feel there is much need for additional chelator. OTOH, if you are hand washing and initially rinsing with filtered tap water, or storing solutions for extended periods, I would include it.


The MSDS shows it contains a non-ionic detergent (unspecified alcohol alkoxylate) along with some quats (one being Benzalkonium Chloride, which we have discussed using previously in this thread). It appears the solution is more dilute than Hepastat, containing 2-10% quat and 1-5% non-ionic, so you will dilute less. Still enough dilution that I wouldn't be concerned about the high pH of the stock (10) however. Looks like it could work very well and definitely worth giving a try. Let us know how it works out!


LOL. You and me both brother! Surfactants can greatly aid in the US cleaning process. I'm not sure whether this is due to the effect reducing surface tension has on cavitation as some suggest (I'm no physicist), but records come out cleaner when they are included. The tricky part comes later, in the subsequent drying step. Using anionic dish soap and wiping with a cloth is a proven recipe for static build up. There is some benefit to wiping with a softened cloth (quat-treated) but I personally prefer a vacuum method as it minimizes exposure. So one CAN use dish detergent in a US tank effectively, as long as they have a means to deal with the subsequent handling.
Speaking of static and wiping, I recently experimented with materials made with Thunderon (copper sulfide infused fibers developed by Nihon Sanmo in Japan). The conductive brushes made by Gordon Brush that combine Thunderon with Goat hair work very well at reducing static charge on records while removing light surface dust. They come in a variety of sizes, and places like Sleeve City and Acoustic Sounds have them at available marked up prices (Gordon Brush is much less, but requires a minimum qty 6 order and other industrial supply houses require min $50 orders). Either way, brushes offer much less cost and greater convenience over the folder apparatus with this fiber sold by Furutech (their SK-X-III at around $450).

The method I use is 1) apply cleaning solution to the record (from a spray bottle) and make several revolutions with a goat hair brush, 2) vacuum, 3) apply distilled water and vacuum (record appearance is that of partial surfactant), 4) apply a second application of distilled water and this time the entire record beads up as expected and as is needed to demonstrate that for all intents and purposes the cleaning solution is totally removed, and vacuum, 5) remove from homemade cleaning "machine", and allow to air dry at least 45 minutes before placing in a MOFO sleeve.
 
The method I use is 1) apply cleaning solution to the record (from a spray bottle) and make several revolutions with a goat hair brush, 2) vacuum, 3) apply distilled water and vacuum (record appearance is that of partial surfactant), 4) apply a second application of distilled water and this time the entire record beads up as expected and as is needed to demonstrate that for all intents and purposes the cleaning solution is totally removed, and vacuum, 5) remove from homemade cleaning "machine", and allow to air dry at least 45 minutes before placing in a MOFO sleeve.

I use pretty much the same method though I don't typically wait 45 minutes to put the clean record in its new sleeve. I do write the date I cleaned the record on the new sleeve.

I'm looking forward to @EngineerNate posting his updated spreadsheet based upon the reduced amounts of Triton and quat cleaner noted by @phantomrebel.
 
I use pretty much the same method though I don't typically wait 45 minutes to put the clean record in its new sleeve. I do write the date I cleaned the record on the new sleeve.

I'm looking forward to @EngineerNate posting his updated spreadsheet based upon the reduced amounts of Triton and quat cleaner noted by @phantomrebel.

Sorry guys! Got home from vacation yesterday and the wife put on a movie and the couch looked very appealing. Forgot completely about updating the sheets. :D
 
Nate, the only sheets you are compelled to update, are the ones you sleep between.

The wife gets mad when I don't help with that particular task. Her standards are a bit higher than mine I'm afraid. :D

I do think I promised to update the calculation spreadsheets somewhere here a few posts back though so I'll try to get that done by the end of the week.
 
Guess I better order some hepastat now that it’s available again
Been using tergikleen and alcohol which seems to do well enough but no harm adding a bit of hepastat

As to people selling the same formula, I’ve seen it on eBay and vinyl stack sends a sample out now with purchases.
Comes with the territory if the internet, someone always wants to make a buck on someone else’s work
 
OK, so I'm reading this from the beginning and I'm only up to Page 24/Post 461, but I ran across a solution that I'm curious about.
It's "active " ingredient is 99% sterile water; it's "inactive" ingredients are sodium chloride,sodium phosphate dibasic, sodium phosphate monobasic. It comes in a 32oz non-resealable plastic container, so it's sterile until you open it.
Is this usable in any form or fashion?
 
The wife gets mad when I don't help with that particular task. Her standards are a bit higher than mine I'm afraid. :D

I do think I promised to update the calculation spreadsheets somewhere here a few posts back though so I'll try to get that done by the end of the week.
Waiting with great expectation!
 
The method I use is 1) apply cleaning solution to the record (from a spray bottle) and make several revolutions with a goat hair brush, 2) vacuum, 3) apply distilled water and vacuum (record appearance is that of partial surfactant), 4) apply a second application of distilled water and this time the entire record beads up as expected and as is needed to demonstrate that for all intents and purposes the cleaning solution is totally removed, and vacuum, 5) remove from homemade cleaning "machine", and allow to air dry at least 45 minutes before placing in a MOFO sleeve.
I do a very similar ritual. I use a squirt bottle to create 2 small pools of solution 180 degrees apart and scrub gently with a microfiber brush - a different brush for each phase. The last wash I vacuum very thoroughly and only wait a short time before placing in the sleeve because I find the cleaning process builds static and the LPs attract dust even though I am running a Hepa filter in the room. I hate static! Well, maybe intensely dislike is a better term. And, yes, I have a Zerostat.
 
I just got to Page 30/Post 581, March 27, 2016, when Guest110/Vince exited. It was his last post here or anywhere on AK. He musta been good and pissed. Sad for us.
 
I just got to Page 30/Post 581, March 27, 2016, when Guest110/Vince exited. It was his last post here or anywhere on AK. He musta been good and pissed. Sad for us.
Yes it was sad. People are sometimes just not very nice. My guess is he is back under a new name but is not contributing to our misery anymore.
 
This topic can sometimes get as heated as wire topics, but here is my 2c. I did a test over at VE with some new junk records that I got with a batch of good stuff. I opened them (tacky country and lift music) and set up my test. I laid out the test lp's on the bench in my workshop and poured a puddle of isopropyl alcohol on the first record (neat) and mentholated spirits on the second again neat, turpentine on the next acetone on the next and dry cleaning fluid on the last. The dry cleaning fluid slightly changed the colour of the record instantly, but even after the over a week of the test (10 days from memory) it still played fine and looked fine under magnification. Non of the other solvents made a jot of difference sonically or visually after 10 days of constant contact with the solvent in question (neat) and it was given a good scrubbing with a brush whenever I passed the bench and topped up with more solvent when needed. The records has 240 hours of constant contact with given solvent during the test and probably 4 years later looking under magnification I still cant see which half of the record had the solvent and sound is same. When we clean a record contact is for seconds and diluted, we also clean every few years, my test was like hundreds of years of cleaning with more harsh solvents than we would ever use with no notable ill effects. Not really a surprise as I still have records I used to clean with neat isopropyl alcohol when I was about 15 and I am 47 now and they are still shiny and they still sound amazing. leaching from vinyl records from my experiment and experience is totally a non issue unless you are using some crazy mad solvent.
Chris
 
doing my first batch with hepastat today, mixed 7.5ml hepastat, 30ml iso and 30drops tergikleen for a 2gallon US run.
i THINK the math works out on that, ive seen different mixtures most are for a bigger concentration.
 
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