Replacing cartridge/stylus on MCS 6700

[nolichuck]

Hi all,

I am new to the community, and to turntables and vinyl in general. I'm am putting together a system for my girlfriend (and truth be told, for me) for her Christmas gift. I realize I could just take the easy route and buy a Crosley suitcase record player or something and call it a day, but after some initial research I realized what a rich and detailed rabbit hole I had started into, and that I wanted to start us out with a system that we could gradually upgrade as our collection and interest grew. Cost is still a factor though, and I'm trying to keep my budget <$250 if at all possible, even if that means just getting a table, preamp, and powered bookshelf speakers to start with.

So, after a lot of further research and reading various forums on this site I snapped up a great looking MCS 6700 when I came across it on Craigslist. (I also picked up an MCS 6202 from a coworker as a backup, but now that I have the 6700 I don't think I'll do anything with the 6202 just yet).

The previous owner recommended that I change the needle as soon as possible, and now I'm getting a little bogged down in the details of this change. Right now there is a Shure N70EJ needle with a Shure R25XT cartridge. So the questions are:

Should I stick with the cartridge and just change the needle?
- It seems like I can do so here:
https://www.turntableneedles.com/N7...hure-M70EJ-etc--our-Needle-768-DE_p_1405.html
but if I'm not mistaken thats the same needle but for the M70EJ cartridge. Am I correct? Searches for that needle with the R25XT don't yield much.
- However, the R25XT is shown with the Shure 3X needle, which I can find replacements for here:
https://www.turntableneedles.com/Sh...-Shack-R25xt-etc-our-774-DEJ-copy_p_1437.html
or here:
http://www.lpgear.com/product/SHR3XEL.html
- So I guess the question becomes: Is it worth my while to spend $28+ on a needle compatible with this cartridge (and can I expect good sound from the pairing)?

Or should I replace the cartridge entirely?
- For instance, with the Audio-Technica AT95E or AT92ECD (which I'm aware of from forums on this site) for about the same price as a needle compatible with the current cartridge.
- If I do so, I know I've seen some things about being careful to correctly align new cartridges so that the needle tracks correctly. What's the deal with that?
- I've also seen posts about the heavy tonearm on the 6700, and choosing cartridges accordingly. Should I be worried about that?

I'm already $100 dollars in, and I still need an amp/receiver, speakers, and possibly a preamp. Tomorrow the search is on in the local thrift stores for those items, and the person I bought the table from has a Pioneer SX-6000 receiver (with phono-input) and some OK Sansui SP-50 speakers available for $100 (any thoughts on that deal are appreciated, that's down from $150) which would complete the system $50 dollars under budget.

In short, I'm not looking to spend a lot on the stylus/cartridge replacement in the near term, just enough to have a record playing on Christmas morning for her. As I said in the beginning, I'm just trying to set us up with a solid table and basis for future upgrades.

I appreciate you time and any input. This community has already been very helpful to me before I joined it, and I hope to pay that forward as my knowledge grows. Cheers!

 

[Hifirob2]

I think this stylus fits your cartridge (no affiliation), and is less expensive:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/TURNTABLE-N...3a4f1cd&pid=100011&rk=1&rkt=7&sd=291652599111

I have not heard this stylus, so maybe someone with experience will chime in, but that is a decent cart for that table. That arm leans more to mid-weight, rather than heavy, and can handle many different carts. My 6700 came with it's original cart - a Shure 2215/2225, and sounded very, very good with a cheap replacement stylus. I use Stanton and Pickering carts on it now.

Cartridge alignment is critical for proper tracking - so search for threads here on AK that explain that. You can download and print out a paper alignment scale from some websites to use - very easy. It's a Technics table, so the overhang needs to be 52mm. Make sure the tracking weight is around 1.5 to 2.0 grams with the stylus I linked to. If you don't know how to balance out the tonearm, and set the correct tracking force, many can walk you through that - also very easy - and just as important.

That Pioneer receiver is pretty old (but it sure is pretty), so it may need servicing to make sure it's operating to spec. If it's in great shape, it's a very nice choice. If it were me, I'd look for a newer model from around 1978-84 or so from any of the big brands. I only say "newer" because an approx. 45 year old receiver is risky unless it has been gone through by a tech. Those Sansui speakers aren't all too efficient. Should be fine for normal listening, but they are rated at 25 watts per channel, and are even older than the Pioneer receiver. Sansui wasn't really known for their speakers. A hundred bucks for both isn't bad, but I'd look for newer, bigger speakers that can handle more power. Make sure the woofer surrounds are in good shape.

If you can listen to the receiver and speakers - maybe using the radio - let it play for about an hour and see if any static or noise appears. If it all checks out, then it may be just what you need. For me, I'd want better speakers - but I like it loud, with plenty of low end. For now, that turntable and receiver (if 100% working) is a great start. I use a MCS 6700 as my main table. It's better than many others, and can handle as much cartridge as you can throw at it. Hang on to the 6202, but the 6700 is a much better performing table. It's also a changer, so if it has the stacking spindles, you can have even more fun.

If someone mentions the vertical tracking angle (VTA) issue when using a changer, you can easily address that by putting the rubber platter mat from the 6202 on top of the one on the 6700. That will solve that issue.

 

[nolichuck]

Thank you for being so prompt! I appreciate the recommendation on the stylus and the advice on alignment and VTA. I had read that the VTA with the 6700 might be a problem, the 6202 mat is a good idea.

I listened to the receiver and speakers (hooked up to another table) for the duration of Hotel California and played with the controls and volume, everything seemed fine. The speakers were scratchy when we flipped it over to the radio (but I figured this was due to poor reception, the record sounded fine). The seller had a lot of equipment, but seemed to take good care of everything, though I don't know if he had the interest or know-how to service it like you're suggesting. I'm going to continue my search for other options, and leave this receiver on standby in case I don't find anything.

Thanks again!

 

[Hifirob2]

No problem. Also, the owner's manual for the 6700 can be downloaded from vinylengine.com. You have to register (it's free) first on their site before downloading any manuals. That will walk you through balancing the tonearm, and setting the correct tracking force.

There are several different types of protractor's you can use for alignment of the cartridge - I'm not positive which is the correct one for Technics tables, but I have one I got from LP Gear, and also one I printed out from vinylengine.com (Stevenson version) that work fine for me. Since the cart on your table has been installed at some point after it was new (all MCS tables came with a cart pre-mounted and aligned from the factory), the alignment is a good idea. Even if the seller did it already, it's good to know how to do, and to check it when changing the stylus.

Also, if you ever notice any speed issues with the table, that just means the speed pots need cleaning with contact cleaner - like Deoxit. There are four of them. One each for the pitch control for each speed that are easy to get to - just carefully pry off the control covers, spray each pot, and move each control back and forth many times. If that doesn't completely fix the issue, you'll have to go inside the turntable base to access the other two speed pots by removing the bottom cover.

 

[Montycat]

Remember there is no need for an alignment gauge if you have the cartridge square in the headshell and the tip of the stylus is 52mm from the base of the headshell where the rubber washer is.

 

[wualta]

I'm going to suggest an aftermarket stylus I haven't tried myself, but based on good experience with other EVG styli for Shure cartridges (including one for a V15 Type III), the 4774-DED. This is EVG's Japan-made copy of the original Shure version of the stylus Shure made for Radio Shack's R25XT. It's basically an M95 stylus with different cosmetics, if that helps place it. The recommended vendor's proprietor has a solid record of good customer service and the cost with shipping would be just above $18.
That vendor also has the original of that Shure stylus, but it's $40 + ship.

 

[Hifirob2]

I'm going to suggest an aftermarket stylus I haven't tried myself, but based on good experience with other EVG styli for Shure cartridges (including one for a V15 Type III), the 4774-DED. This is EVG's Japan-made copy of the original Shure version of the stylus Shure made for Radio Shack's R25XT. It's basically an M95 stylus with different cosmetics, if that helps place it. The recommended vendor's proprietor has a solid record of good customer service and the cost with shipping would be just above $18.
That vendor also has the original of that Shure stylus, but it's $40 + ship.

I would go this route, too. EVG brand replacements from Japan are usually better quality than the other aftermarket ones. The replacements I bought for my Shure were from EVG, and they sound perfect.

 

[nolichuck]

I looked around on that website, and found this as well: 4768-DE which says it fits the R25XT (but the source is Pfanstiehl Swiss).

Will either work? I'm happy to go with the EVG since both of you recommend it, but I want to be sure it fits since there is another page on that site showing a different model number for my cartridge.

 

[Hifirob2]

I don't know from actual experience that the EVG will work, but the site does reference EJ model numbers, so that's good. Plus, I'd trust Wualta's advice 110%. To say he's an expert in this area is an understatement.

 

[wualta]

Thanks to Hifirob2 for the compliment! The 4768-DE is originally for the Shure M70 cartridge, which has a narrower body (8mm) than the R25XT's, and since I don't have that stylus handy but do have photos, I have doubts that it will fit the wider R25XT body (10mm). It will definitely fit the earlier R25ED body, and that may be where the vendor confusion arises. Now, could you slice off the side grips from the N70 stylus and make it fit? Certainly.

 

[nolichuck]

wualta: Did you mean the 4768 rather than the 4760? Because I saw the 4760-DE on there as well, and it does show that it repaces the N70 needle (among others). But the page for the 4768-DE sourced from Pfanstiehl Swiss specifically lists the R25XT and shows N70EJ in the replacement notes, so that would seem to be the one to go with. I just wanted to confirm whether the 4774-DED made by EVG that you recommended will fit the R25XT and be a better replacement, in which case I'd go with that. The price is the same either way.

 

[nolichuck]

The tracking force for each stylus is quite different, 1.5-3g for the 4768 and 0.75-1.5g for the 4774. Does that mean the 4774 would be easier on the records?

 

[wualta]

Yes, sorry, that was a typo,and I've gone back and corrected it so no one reading this in the future is misled.

Both 760 and 768 styli are thin. They're from the previous generation of Shure models, ones with narrower bodies. Both could be made to fit your R25XT, but would sound brighter than in their "native" bodies. The M70 (4768-DE), which as I say I don't have in my collection [to try the fit], is thinner than the M75 (4760-DE) and may fit without modification by hugging the narrower part of the V-shaped bottom of the R25XT; regardless, it wouldn't be my first recommendation.

The 4774-DE is a copy of the stylus originally meant for the R25XT-- it will fit.

 

[nolichuck]

Great, thank you for clarifying. I just ordered the 4774-DE.

Thank you wualta and Hifirob2 for your advice and knowledge. Cheers.

 

[nolichuck]

The 4774-DE fit perfectly and works like a charm.

By the way, here is a photo of the new setup in action. Thank you for your advice and knowledge!




MCS 6700 Turntable
Boston HD5 Bookshelf Speakers
Pioneer VSX-D466S Receiver
JJ Cale "Naturally"

 

[Hifirob2]

Looks great!

 

[wualta]

It does indeed!

Time to listen to "Crazy Mama" on repeat!