Rogue Cronus Magnum II Tube Rolling
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- Start date
bacobits
Active Member
Sorry didn't see this.
The Cronus Upgrade to a MAG II is excellent and I'm not wanting more.
A superb performer. Upgrade PS has more slam. The upgrade gives you basically a new amp except for the Trannies,
You get a new front panel, top plate. ALL electronics and posts are replaced. Very articulate after some warmup and break in of say 30 hours. I just installed a few weeks ago a NOS Mullard CV4003 in the middle slot. All other tubes are NOS Telefunken, Power are KT120. Warm and very 3D warmish.That elusive "warm and detailed". we all want is here.
As mentioned, mine was a situation where the balance control need fixing so in it went to Rogue did the upgrade for that reason. 10 days it was done to and fro super service!
The system sounds sublime best I have had here!
Using> A Yggdrasil, CXC Transport, CA Emotion SE CMB, Carbon Satify Arm, AT 33PTGII, into a Vista Audio Phono2, Using a Berson Cable Pro+ on the phono, it works very well, this is an active buffer cable I was blown away on phono.
Speakers are Usher CP6371 (90db/4ohm), all wires are Wywires Silver series,
Interconnects and PC's. Streaming USB Spotify, Supra USB to an Itona Ind.,Curious link USB to Yiggy.
The Cronus Upgrade to a MAG II is excellent and I'm not wanting more.
A superb performer. Upgrade PS has more slam. The upgrade gives you basically a new amp except for the Trannies,
You get a new front panel, top plate. ALL electronics and posts are replaced. Very articulate after some warmup and break in of say 30 hours. I just installed a few weeks ago a NOS Mullard CV4003 in the middle slot. All other tubes are NOS Telefunken, Power are KT120. Warm and very 3D warmish.That elusive "warm and detailed". we all want is here.
As mentioned, mine was a situation where the balance control need fixing so in it went to Rogue did the upgrade for that reason. 10 days it was done to and fro super service!
The system sounds sublime best I have had here!
Using> A Yggdrasil, CXC Transport, CA Emotion SE CMB, Carbon Satify Arm, AT 33PTGII, into a Vista Audio Phono2, Using a Berson Cable Pro+ on the phono, it works very well, this is an active buffer cable I was blown away on phono.
Speakers are Usher CP6371 (90db/4ohm), all wires are Wywires Silver series,
Interconnects and PC's. Streaming USB Spotify, Supra USB to an Itona Ind.,Curious link USB to Yiggy.
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airtime
Super Member
Can you use a 12BH7 in that center position?
I've tried a number of 12AU7's in MY amp. preferred the sound of the GE 12AU7WA and TungSol 12AU7. Warmer than most but still quite nice. I know you are trying big bucks tubes but do also consider newer tubes like the TungSol.
Heck, you're in tube rolling country now. So go for as many as you can buy and try.
Also remember that newer amps will/do not have a great deal of "warmth". Keep that in mind before you start chasing your tail. My VTA that I LOVE!!!!! is a great amp, but warm it is NOT. I was tube rolling for months trying to make that amp do what it wasn't built for.
I also found that yes, the center tube in the driver board does a lot. But to me the output tubes contoured the sound more than the driver tube. The center tube kind of tweaked the sound. Where as the output tubes dictated it's overall tonal character.
I've tried a number of 12AU7's in MY amp. preferred the sound of the GE 12AU7WA and TungSol 12AU7. Warmer than most but still quite nice. I know you are trying big bucks tubes but do also consider newer tubes like the TungSol.
Heck, you're in tube rolling country now. So go for as many as you can buy and try.
Also remember that newer amps will/do not have a great deal of "warmth". Keep that in mind before you start chasing your tail. My VTA that I LOVE!!!!! is a great amp, but warm it is NOT. I was tube rolling for months trying to make that amp do what it wasn't built for.
I also found that yes, the center tube in the driver board does a lot. But to me the output tubes contoured the sound more than the driver tube. The center tube kind of tweaked the sound. Where as the output tubes dictated it's overall tonal character.
Since January I have been Tube Rolling in a PrimaLuna DiaLogue Premium HP Integrated:
Telefunken ECC82/12AU7 Smooth Plates
Telefunken ECC82/12AU7 Ribbed Plates
Brimar CV4003
Brimar ECC82/12AU7
MULLARD (Amperex) ECC82/12AU7
CEI 7316 ECC186 Holland
Philips ECC82 (12AU7) Holland
Amperex 12AU7 Orange Globe
HITACHI 12AU7
GE 5814 5 Star 2 Mica
GE JG-5814 5 Star 3 Mica
RCA COMMAND 5814A
I have settled on 4 Philips ECC82 (12AU7) for Driver Stage Holland and 2 CEI 7316 ECC186 Holland for Gain Stage
Telefunken ECC82/12AU7 Smooth Plates
Telefunken ECC82/12AU7 Ribbed Plates
Brimar CV4003
Brimar ECC82/12AU7
MULLARD (Amperex) ECC82/12AU7
CEI 7316 ECC186 Holland
Philips ECC82 (12AU7) Holland
Amperex 12AU7 Orange Globe
HITACHI 12AU7
GE 5814 5 Star 2 Mica
GE JG-5814 5 Star 3 Mica
RCA COMMAND 5814A
I have settled on 4 Philips ECC82 (12AU7) for Driver Stage Holland and 2 CEI 7316 ECC186 Holland for Gain Stage
saggy
These go to 11
Wanted to chime in and say how helpful this thread has been to me. I’m about to change out my tubes in my Rogue Sphinx and this dialogue was invaluable. It’s my first time having any sort of tubes so I’m excited to see what happens.
I have my eyes on a few options in all reasonable price ranges, so we’ll see what happens...
I have my eyes on a few options in all reasonable price ranges, so we’ll see what happens...
Magnum V1 new to me, few days. Came with Mullard CV4300 in center position. Other au and av tubes I believe to be stock JJ.
I've had the CV4300's, matched pair in my Sphinx V1 for year. Magnum sounds very nice. Just a hint of a little warmth, not surupy.
So far, drove Advent ones first and now Canton Karat 200 in small room. Karat may have a little distort in one. Back to Advent ones. Neither are bass heavy performers. Even to nice bass through the Advents.
Edit: I'll probable stand pat for time being. See how tubes I have run. Get idea on tube life/cost first. A full complement of tubes costs. Some good ideas for future.
This thread is very infomative. Think I'll roll a few single 12au7 in center position.
It is an outstanding amp.
I also want to say this is a great thread. I going to note recommended tubes. Will try a few.
I've had the CV4300's, matched pair in my Sphinx V1 for year. Magnum sounds very nice. Just a hint of a little warmth, not surupy.
So far, drove Advent ones first and now Canton Karat 200 in small room. Karat may have a little distort in one. Back to Advent ones. Neither are bass heavy performers. Even to nice bass through the Advents.
Edit: I'll probable stand pat for time being. See how tubes I have run. Get idea on tube life/cost first. A full complement of tubes costs. Some good ideas for future.
This thread is very infomative. Think I'll roll a few single 12au7 in center position.
It is an outstanding amp.
I also want to say this is a great thread. I going to note recommended tubes. Will try a few.
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I've got a Cronus Magnum that I bought new two years ago. I rolled an RCA clear top in that center tube position, but did not notice any difference. I think I may give the PSVane tube a try. I rolled a couple of other tubes, I'll look up what I tried and report back here.
This is the best thread on this specific topic that I’ve found, so I thought I’d add my recent experience rolling CMII tubes to the discussion.
Out of the box, I found the CMII to be a bit sterile in my system. My room (lots of wood/glass) and speakers (LS50s) are both prone to brightness. My goal was to get some more warmth while preserving the stunning precision and imaging of the CMII/LS50 combo.
Fortunately, based on everyone else’s experience, I knew where to start: one high end pre tube (for me, a NOS Mullard CV4003).
From there, I tried some Soviet 6N2P-EVs in the 12AX7 slots. They were really, really great for the price. You can generally find a nice matched pair that include the 12AX7 adapters for less than $30 on eBay. Not the quietest, but a really nice upgrade over the JJs.
From there I tackled the other two 12AU7s. First set I tried were some NOS Baldwin organ branded Sylvanias. Super affordable and smooth sounding, but I decided to try something a little higher up the chain. This was a swap for a pair of 1957 RCA 5963 Black Plates. These were a HUGE upgrade. Even smoother sound, but — more importantly — a massive widening of the soundstage. To-date, these are my favorite find.
I was almost there, but started wondering if I should give a nice pair of NOS 12AX7s a try and swap them for the “Russian Rockets”. Looking for something clean and neutral (the CV4003 and RCAs got me the warmth and sound stage I wanted) I ended up with a pair of GE long plate/grey plate 12AXs. While I’m not sure these provided a huge upgrade over the 62NP-EVs, I do feel more comfortable having “real” 12AX7s in there.
Still interested in hearing other CMII tube adventures.
Out of the box, I found the CMII to be a bit sterile in my system. My room (lots of wood/glass) and speakers (LS50s) are both prone to brightness. My goal was to get some more warmth while preserving the stunning precision and imaging of the CMII/LS50 combo.
Fortunately, based on everyone else’s experience, I knew where to start: one high end pre tube (for me, a NOS Mullard CV4003).
From there, I tried some Soviet 6N2P-EVs in the 12AX7 slots. They were really, really great for the price. You can generally find a nice matched pair that include the 12AX7 adapters for less than $30 on eBay. Not the quietest, but a really nice upgrade over the JJs.
From there I tackled the other two 12AU7s. First set I tried were some NOS Baldwin organ branded Sylvanias. Super affordable and smooth sounding, but I decided to try something a little higher up the chain. This was a swap for a pair of 1957 RCA 5963 Black Plates. These were a HUGE upgrade. Even smoother sound, but — more importantly — a massive widening of the soundstage. To-date, these are my favorite find.
I was almost there, but started wondering if I should give a nice pair of NOS 12AX7s a try and swap them for the “Russian Rockets”. Looking for something clean and neutral (the CV4003 and RCAs got me the warmth and sound stage I wanted) I ended up with a pair of GE long plate/grey plate 12AXs. While I’m not sure these provided a huge upgrade over the 62NP-EVs, I do feel more comfortable having “real” 12AX7s in there.
Still interested in hearing other CMII tube adventures.
bacobits
Active Member
Extremely simple. For the 16ga SC, people usually run no connectors bare wire. I use the BFA bananas from Take 5 audio, for convenience, three or four twists per ft.
Interconnects 20ga again 3-4 twists per Ft. I use Switchcraft RCA's, and use shielded on Phono Pre and Unshielded on DAC to Amp.
Lots more on Audiogon forum "Duelund 16ga" topic. You can get them finished on EBay too but a lot cheaper making them. If checking Parts connection finished it gets expensive. No need to.
Interconnects 20ga again 3-4 twists per Ft. I use Switchcraft RCA's, and use shielded on Phono Pre and Unshielded on DAC to Amp.
Lots more on Audiogon forum "Duelund 16ga" topic. You can get them finished on EBay too but a lot cheaper making them. If checking Parts connection finished it gets expensive. No need to.
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Update....
The CM2 developed a hum recently. It was present with the unit on and nothing playing (regardless of source), but disappeared when I turned the volume up. Still, it drove me nuts.
After some research and thought I determined that it must be an input tube. I decided to start with the 12AU7;preamp tube. Swapped out the PSvane with an RCA cleartop. Fired up the amp and the hum was gone. Dead silent. I love it when things work out on the first try!
The RCA is not as dynamic as the PSvane, but still sounds very good. Admittedly, the RCA still has some burn in time to do. So, I suspect that the sound will only improve. In any event, I feel certain that I will be looking at other options. The road goes on forever and the party never ends....
The CM2 developed a hum recently. It was present with the unit on and nothing playing (regardless of source), but disappeared when I turned the volume up. Still, it drove me nuts.
After some research and thought I determined that it must be an input tube. I decided to start with the 12AU7;preamp tube. Swapped out the PSvane with an RCA cleartop. Fired up the amp and the hum was gone. Dead silent. I love it when things work out on the first try!
The RCA is not as dynamic as the PSvane, but still sounds very good. Admittedly, the RCA still has some burn in time to do. So, I suspect that the sound will only improve. In any event, I feel certain that I will be looking at other options. The road goes on forever and the party never ends....
Update....
The CM2 developed a hum recently. It was present with the unit on and nothing playing (regardless of source), but disappeared when I turned the volume up. Still, it drove me nuts.
After some research and thought I determined that it must be an input tube. I decided to start with the 12AU7;preamp tube. Swapped out the PSvane with an RCA cleartop. Fired up the amp and the hum was gone. Dead silent. I love it when things work out on the first try!
The RCA is not as dynamic as the PSvane, but still sounds very good. Admittedly, the RCA still has some burn in time to do. So, I suspect that the sound will only improve. In any event, I feel certain that I will be looking at other options. The road goes on forever and the party never ends....
Great, only one tube at issue. How much time on it before it started bothing you?
I have the CM1 which does not have standby mode. My Sphinx V1does. Did Rogue add the standby on the CM2?
My best estimate is about 1000 hrs on the tube. The other PSvanes that I am using are doing fine. No to the standby mode. It is either on or off.
phastrone
Active Member
I've just recently replaced the 12ax7s on my CM2 with Sovtek 12ax7 LPS...A great difference for very little cash! I had already replaced the main preamp tube with a Brimar 12au7 to great (positive) effect...Tomorrow I'm going to pick up a matched pair of NOS Mullards to replace the other 2 new issue Mullards I'm using now. This was a great amp when I got it and it's getting better with every roll. (with the exception of a couple of Genalex Gold Lions which didn't work out at all) The improvements have had the effect of making me rediscover my classical LPs...
bacobits
Active Member
This is an extremely nice combo to continue.
Mullard CV4003 (middle)
RCA (' 57) 5963 Black Plate (outside) as recommended by
jphabc54 excellent!
12AX7> Sovtek 5751, had these laying around, worked out just great!
Very nice separation, 3D imaging, "precision" tone and bass.
Best I have heard here yet.
Using a Schiit Yggdrasil in que to be upgraded to v2 soon.
Originally running ALL Tele's also very good.
Mullard CV4003 (middle)
RCA (' 57) 5963 Black Plate (outside) as recommended by
jphabc54 excellent!
12AX7> Sovtek 5751, had these laying around, worked out just great!
Very nice separation, 3D imaging, "precision" tone and bass.
Best I have heard here yet.
Using a Schiit Yggdrasil in que to be upgraded to v2 soon.
Originally running ALL Tele's also very good.
avanti1960
Well-Known Member
Very timely thread and I just made a major change in my CMII. Tried pretty much every available NOS and new tube and have a drawer full to prove it. The CM II can go from grunge to glory depending on the small signal tubes being used- it is extremely responsive! Here is a summary of my longest running configurations after MUCH trial and error and critical listening:
Config 1) rear row- RCA 5963 (12AU7 upgrades), center preamp tube- Amperex Bugle Boy holland 50's era with treble clef logo. front row- Sylvania 5751 triple mica.
This config served me well for over a year- the RCA 5963 and Amperex 12AU7 have transparency and clarity to die for. However the Sylvania 5751 has lower gain than a typical 12AX7 so dynamics were not optimized- enter
Config 2) same as above except swapped in some Amperex Holland 12AX7 for the Sylvania 5751s. Voila! Dynamics through the roof and all is good until the Amperex center preamp tube went noisy- and the desire to just play a little-
Config 3) Swapped the back row RCA 5963 for some NOS RCA 12AU7 clear tops (by far the absolute best value in tubes and possibly the world of audio! )
swapped a NOS Mazda of France 60's 12AU7 for the noisy Amperex.
Holy smokes what an amazing sound I am now getting. Clean, clear and RICH! Such a refined, sweet sound. Makes everything sound amazing. With the old setup it was so clear and transparent Miles Davis was in the room with you- and you couldn't get rid of him! He was too present! Plus the highs were a touch too rounded off.
The new setup with the Mazda 12AU7 and RCA clear tops in the back row things are recessed a couple rows from "in your face" but still amazingly detailed- and the highs are sweet and airy. Highly recommended!
Back row- RCA 12AU7 clear tops.
Middle preamp- Mazda radio of france 60s 12AU7.
Front Row- Amperex Holland 50's 12AX7
Peace!
Config 1) rear row- RCA 5963 (12AU7 upgrades), center preamp tube- Amperex Bugle Boy holland 50's era with treble clef logo. front row- Sylvania 5751 triple mica.
This config served me well for over a year- the RCA 5963 and Amperex 12AU7 have transparency and clarity to die for. However the Sylvania 5751 has lower gain than a typical 12AX7 so dynamics were not optimized- enter
Config 2) same as above except swapped in some Amperex Holland 12AX7 for the Sylvania 5751s. Voila! Dynamics through the roof and all is good until the Amperex center preamp tube went noisy- and the desire to just play a little-
Config 3) Swapped the back row RCA 5963 for some NOS RCA 12AU7 clear tops (by far the absolute best value in tubes and possibly the world of audio! )
swapped a NOS Mazda of France 60's 12AU7 for the noisy Amperex.
Holy smokes what an amazing sound I am now getting. Clean, clear and RICH! Such a refined, sweet sound. Makes everything sound amazing. With the old setup it was so clear and transparent Miles Davis was in the room with you- and you couldn't get rid of him! He was too present! Plus the highs were a touch too rounded off.
The new setup with the Mazda 12AU7 and RCA clear tops in the back row things are recessed a couple rows from "in your face" but still amazingly detailed- and the highs are sweet and airy. Highly recommended!
Back row- RCA 12AU7 clear tops.
Middle preamp- Mazda radio of france 60s 12AU7.
Front Row- Amperex Holland 50's 12AX7
Peace!
