Sansui G-33000 - $7000 (Lancaster)

AK population does not represent the whole world of potential buyers who wants vintage audio gear. I sold many (I meant many) of my rare Sanui equipments to young international buyers, ebay buyers, etc. and they do not know about a thing about AK or other audio forums.
 
We are still at the top of the market. I do remember in the mid 90's when ST 70's were considered $50 thrift store amps and I bought a mint Scott 299C for $150, which was a fair price.

Yes, there are some kids who see audio gear as being cool. But for the most part, AK is club for 40+ year olds. Look at pics from the Fest. It might as well be shots of an old folks home. :) These are all people who were young when audio was cool. Who remember when something like the amp in question was an ultimate. To a kid who came of age in the 90's, they will see this as what it is. An old amp.

You're omitting a few important points that have a direct impact on the age group demographic of AK. Like many other pastimes, the hi-fi hobby requires a degree of spare time and money. Lots of younger folks simply do not have either at their disposal in sufficient quantity. Their priorities simply lie elsewhere at the earlier stages of life by default, ie: socializing, raising new families, career pursuit, making car/mortgage payments etc etc. Only after their lives begin to settle can they devote the energy necessary and begin their involvement in activities such as this.

As I pointed out earlier in the collector car example, many analysts were ready to dismiss the prewar segment of vintage cars as having seen their best days, the fact of the matter is that the market for much of this material is alive and well and in many cases, stronger than ever.

Getting back to the future collectibility of Sansui G-33000, Pioneer SX-1980, Marantz 2500/2600 receivers and the like, I find it difficult to make any long range market predictions. Units like these were considered among the best in their day, exist in comparatively smaller numbers, are representative of what many consider hi-fi's "Golden Age" and will never be produced again. I could be 100% wrong but these factors are almost always a never fail key for strong collectability.
 
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My brother was big into the Model A market 20 years ago. It ain't nothing now compared to what it used to be.
 
My brother was big into the Model A market 20 years ago. It ain't nothing now compared to what it used to be.

A Ford Model A- (I'm assuming you mean Ford model A) or Model T would be more akin to a Pioneer SX-780: Produced in huge numbers, common, nothing terribly special. (No disrespect to SX-780 owners).

A Sansui G-33000 would be something more comparable to a 1930 Cadillac V-16 Roadster.
 
I'm not entirely convinced of this. AK Fest will be held in Detroit. How many younger Akers can afford (in time and/or money) a trip to Detroit?

I can't ! I'm a 32 yo. dad with a 1.2 yo. kid, waiting for the birth of a second kid. Freedom of movement, income and time isn't my bag right now.

And even if I decided I was very motivated to go to AK Fest (though my girlfriend would gladly follow me), how many girlfriends and wives wouldn't be happy with this decision ? How many of them would try to push that vacation trip in another direction ? Yes, at our age, vacations are a family event...

How many college youngsters have the money to spend an entire weekend at the other end of the United States if, say, they live in Florida ? At that time, I surely hadn't the money available... and instead planned cheap trips with buddies all stucked into one car. But that didn't meant I wasn't interested into audio !

Only older folks have freedom of movement, family and income... it's no surprise the AK Fest attracts an absolute majority of older gents as the younger minority isn't in a position to pay a visit... pretty much like you when you had our age.

I did my first AK fest when I was 37. Not that much older than you. And I was one of the youngest guys there. And I really don't buy that cost is such a huge barrier to attendance at the Fest.

I have been buying and selling vintage gear for almost 20 years now. Most of the guys I bought and sold from were my age, or more likely, older than me.

Realistically, what would make this combo worth $7000 or even $4000? There is certainly better gear out in the market if all you want is sound. Better quality and better reliability. So what are you really buying here? Nostalgia and rarity. Once the nostalgia goes away, the rarity won't matter as much.

I wen't to a lot of meetings here of an antique phonograph society about 20 years back. The members were, shockingly enough, guys who were around when that year was cool. The two youngest members were me and Jeff Healey. Yes, that Jeff Healey. The equipment and 78's, 80's, cylinders, etc. was fetching good dollars then. Now, those same guys are saying that units that were very popular, are sitting for ages with no interest. They can't give away their records away.

Same with stamp collections. Sure, there are still stamps that are worth money. But I know a number of elderly friends of my dad who built huge collections, and now their kids can't get anything for them. Pretty sad, but like anything else, all hobbies are cyclical.
 
I did my first AK fest when I was 37. Not that much older than you. And I was one of the youngest guys there. And I really don't buy that cost is such a huge barrier to attendance at the Fest.

There must be as many definitions of "disposable income" as there are people. There must also be as many ways of traveling as there are people... so I won't get into this...

... But from my own limited point of view, doing the trip to Detroit in a car with my family while sleeping in motels would be costly... not counting all that time waisted along the way as my little girl will often want to stretch her legs and spend herself or that trip would be a nightmare for her (and us by ricochet). Not sure long driving hours would suit her. My girlfriend will obviously point out that our time and money would be better spent doing some cool family activities around my city. And I'll have to agree with her on this.

... but that doesn't prevent me from being interested into audio and buying or upgrading units and components.

Not to say, there's a big difference between 32 yo. and 37 yo. As at my age, most are still struggling to settle their income while hoping all will be better in a few years !

I have been buying and selling vintage gear for almost 20 years now. Most of the guys I bought and sold from were my age, or more likely, older than me.

It makes sense since this age group has more disposable income. But still, that doesn't mean younger ones aren't interested ! Maybe they are less fortunate ! Maybe they are looking at the most "badass" units... I would've !

Realistically, what would make this combo worth $7000 or even $4000? There is certainly better gear out in the market if all you want is sound. Better quality and better reliability. So what are you really buying here? Nostalgia and rarity. Once the nostalgia goes away, the rarity won't matter as much.

Nothing will make that combo worth, today, $7000! That's because of crazy exceptions like this that, in administration, when you want to know an average number of something, you don't add the upper and lower extremes in your calculation.

And as 62caddy already pointed out (see post #28)... Relative scarcity is always increasing. The population is always increasing while the quantity of good quality collectible is fixed or decreasing. There's a good chance vintage TOTL will appreciate in the long term while the rest will fall into oblivion.

I wen't to a lot of meetings here of an antique phonograph society about 20 years back. The members were, shockingly enough, guys who were around when that year was cool. The two youngest members were me and Jeff Healey. Yes, that Jeff Healey. The equipment and 78's, 80's, cylinders, etc. was fetching good dollars then. Now, those same guys are saying that units that were very popular, are sitting for ages with no interest. They can't give away their records away.

Isn't cylinders and 78's antiquated technology ? I mean, analog sound from TOTL vintage units is comparable to modern units and new music is still made for them. I couldn't get much use from a cylinder or a 78... only a museum would...

When will emerge a new revolutionizing technology that'll blow our senses and antiquate the audio technology we're currently using... it's a safe bet to say the market for the antiquated technology will fall.

Same with stamp collections. Sure, there are still stamps that are worth money. But I know a number of elderly friends of my dad who built huge collections, and now their kids can't get anything for them. Pretty sad, but like anything else, all hobbies are cyclical.

And I bet those stamps that still fetch good money are those rare highly sought ones. All that is too common probably isn't worth much anymore.
 
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... But from my own limited point of view, doing the trip to Detroit in a car with my family while sleeping in motels would be costly... not counting all that time waisted along the way as my little girl will often want to stretch her legs and spend herself or that trip would be a nightmare for her (and us by ricochet). Not sure long driving hours would suit her. My girlfriend will obviously point out that our time and money would be better spent doing some cool family activities around my city. And I'll have to agree with her on this.

... but that doesn't prevent me from being interested into audio and buying or upgrading units and components.

As at my age, most are still struggling to settle their income while hoping all will be better in a few years !

My point exactly. I've no doubt mrb3's situation is not unique in the slightest and the average age at a typical AK event in no way is representative of a cross section of those with audiophile interest.
 
There's a good chance vintage TOTL will appreciate in the long term while the rest will fall into oblivion.


All that is too common probably isn't worth much anymore.


I absolutely agree with this. Historically speaking, TOTL units that are pristine will almost invariably have strong collector interest, as in most fields of collectibility.
 
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My point exactly. I've no doubt mrb3's situation is not unique in the slightest and the average age at a typical AK event in no way is representative of a cross section of those with audiophile interest.

Being in my early 30s myself, I will gladly disagree with you on that one. I know of exactly ONE person who gives a rats ass about audio that is my age, the rest gleefully listen to mp3s on an iphone. If anything the cross section of audiokarma favors the younger generation who are more computer literate and comfortable searching and posting on the internet. Honestly? It kind of sucks when you have such a strong interest in someone but to share it with local friends you have to hang out with guys over a decade older. Not to say I don't enjoy the hell out of it, but a few folks my age would make me feel less crazy!
 
Being in my early 30s myself, I will gladly disagree with you on that one. I know of exactly ONE person who gives a rats ass about audio that is my age, the rest gleefully listen to mp3s on an iphone. If anything the cross section of audiokarma favors the younger generation who are more computer literate and comfortable searching and posting on the internet. Honestly? It kind of sucks when you have such a strong interest in someone but to share it with local friends you have to hang out with guys over a decade older. Not to say I don't enjoy the hell out of it, but a few folks my age would make me feel less crazy!

There probably aren't too many 20-30-something wine connoisseurs either. You think that appreciation is dying off too?
 
Wine is certainly a silly example. People of all ages everywhere around the world have enjoyed wine for thousands of years.

Audio as a hobby, especially what is popular on most of AK was a hobby that was really "in" for a relatively short time and then was replaced by newer technology. Do you really believe the iPod generation is going to be enthusiastic about something as inconvenient, clunky and cumbersome as vintage audio? CDs and cassettes replaced vinyl and both of those technologies are dead. The kids who aspired to a big systems, and a handful who get a kick out of playing with old technology are what is keeping it alive. The youth of today aspire to an iPad or iPod, not 90lbs of old receiver. Bose is one of the few old audio companies left, because they changed with the times.

And the V16 Cadillac example doesn't work well either. Even the most automotively jaded Corolla driver will notice and appreciate an old Cadillac on the road as a work of industrial art of nothing else. A late 70's receiver is not gonna have the same effect on most people.

As a final point, there are 6 million people in a 50 mile radius of where of live. In that area, there is one decent repair shop, and a couple of hackers. Vintage audio repair is a dead industry. There just isn't enough work, or money in it to keep it alive as an industry.
 
You missed the point. G 33000 is unique piece. It's not just a piece of vintage stereo like alot of those people give away for free on craigslist. It a rare, highly collectible and it will definitely make your living/listening room look $20,000 more expensive.


Wine is certainly a silly example. People of all ages everywhere around the world have enjoyed wine for thousands of years.

Audio as a hobby, especially what is popular on most of AK was a hobby that was really "in" for a relatively short time and then was replaced by newer technology. Do you really believe the iPod generation is going to be enthusiastic about something as inconvenient, clunky and cumbersome as vintage audio? CDs and cassettes replaced vinyl and both of those technologies are dead. The kids who aspired to a big systems, and a handful who get a kick out of playing with old technology are what is keeping it alive. The youth of today aspire to an iPad or iPod, not 90lbs of old receiver. Bose is one of the few old audio companies left, because they changed with the times.

And the V16 Cadillac example doesn't work well either. Even the most automotively jaded Corolla driver will notice and appreciate an old Cadillac on the road as a work of industrial art of nothing else. A late 70's receiver is not gonna have the same effect on most people.

As a final point, there are 6 million people in a 50 mile radius of where of live. In that area, there is one decent repair shop, and a couple of hackers. Vintage audio repair is a dead industry. There just isn't enough work, or money in it to keep it alive as an industry.
 
You missed the point. G 33000 is unique piece. It's not just a piece of vintage stereo like alot of those people give away for free on craigslist. It a rare, highly collectible and it will definitely make your living/listening room look $20,000 more expensive.

Didn't miss it at all. Just don't agree with it.
I agree that the G33000 is rare. I just don't think that it will continue to go up on price indefinitely. And I certainly dont agree that anyone other than an AK type will be impressed by it. A new 60 inch tv will impress most folks a while lot more.
 
Big screen TV's with newest technology can be seen in almost every house. By the way, I was in love with G 33000 way before I know AK forums. And guess what? I have a few young friends that came to my house and are on the hunt for the big Sansui G after they saw my G33K and G22K.


Didn't miss it at all. Just don't agree with it.
I agree that the G33000 is rare. I just don't think that it will continue to go up on price indefinitely. And I certainly dont agree that anyone other than an AK type will be impressed by it. A new 60 inch tv will impress most folks a while lot more.
 
There probably aren't too many 20-30-something wine connoisseurs either. You think that appreciation is dying off too?

Technology is different from wine in that it constantly evolves and old technology becomes obsolete. People aren't out looking for the newest wine. That reminds me of the movie "The Jerk" when Steve Martin says something along the lines of "Get me some fresh wine, I am sick of this old stuff"!
 
Big screen TV's with newest technology can be seen in almost every house. By the way, I was in love with G 33000 way before I know AK forums. And guess what? I have a few young friends that came to my house and are on the hunt for the big Sansui G after they saw my G33K and G22K.

You are lucky to have a few friends that enjoy audio enough to pursue finding a decent piece of gear. 7 grand and a trip to lancaster is all it will take! :D

The big G's are certainly rare, desireable and command a respectable price but I saying that it will improve the look of your livingroom by 20k is certainly just an opinion.
 
Wine is certainly a silly example. People of all ages everywhere around the world have enjoyed wine for thousands of years.



And the V16 Cadillac example doesn't work well either. Even the most automotively jaded Corolla driver will notice and appreciate an old Cadillac on the road as a work of industrial art of nothing else.


The wine example was intended to illustrate the flawed logic in 240sx' arguement. Many appreciations blossom with maturity. Lack of apparant interest in a specific genre of appreciation within a youthful age bracket hardly signifies the death of the genre- be it be wine, Tiffany lamps, Folk Art or European Master oil paintings.

The V-16 Cadillac example absolutely does work: In 1950, such a vehicle was considered just an old car with absolutely no thought of ever becoming collectible, let alone valuable.

Again, I'm not suggesting that a super receiver of the '70s is guaranteed to become a high dollar collectible item for the ages of time. What I am saying that it's premature to categorically forecast their long term demise as desireable or collectible objects. Least not from a historical perspective nor from the arguements posited thus far. As the saying goes: Time will tell...

Enjoyable and interesting debate all the same. :)
 
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Wine is certainly a silly example.

When I read 62caddy's wine example I thought exactly the opposite ! A clever comparison ! Taste in fine wines has much chances to develop with age... same as taste in fine audio equipment.


Do you really believe the iPod generation is going to be enthusiastic about something as inconvenient, clunky and cumbersome as vintage audio? [...] The youth of today aspire to an iPad or iPod, not 90lbs of old receiver.

What a sad and cynical statement !

Have you ever had a walkman when you were young ? Have you overplayed your cassettes to a point they got worn out and sounded very bad, without minding the crappy sound, continuing to play them again and again and again ? And... has it prevented you from getting a nice audiophile system once you got older ?

Chances are it's that shitty equipment and sound that got you into music. Very few gets into audio directly on an audiophile system !


And the V16 Cadillac example doesn't work well either. Even the most automotively jaded Corolla driver will notice and appreciate an old Cadillac on the road as a work of industrial art of nothing else. A late 70's receiver is not gonna have the same effect on most people.

Sure, and there are also some young guys who prefer to buy, for example, a 1988 Nissan 240SX instead of a 2012 Toyota Echo...

Hi 240xs4u ! :rockon:

Those kids do so probably because they appreciate "more bangs for the bucks" cars. And also because "they don't make them like they used to"... not forgetting the "cool factor". Chances are that, when some will get older, they'll buy a vintage pristine Mercedes for the same reasons. I'm not saying everyone of them will buy vintage. But surely there'll be some that'll look for them !

Also, maybe some of them will apply that same philosophy to other domains like... you guessed it right ! Audio !


As a final point, there are 6 million people in a 50 mile radius of where of live. In that area, there is one decent repair shop, and a couple of hackers. Vintage audio repair is a dead industry. There just isn't enough work, or money in it to keep it alive as an industry.

You're right. And it'll never become an industry as vintage is not for everyone. With that few buyers, only the best vintage units will still change hands in a few years from now and the rest will likely be forgotten.
 
The g33000 looks like a million bucks! Sansui was Boss back in the day, unless you had an onkyo m-510 :)
btw the one that saold for 4090 or whatever was my friends. It was not in the best shape as I remember. He has 3 more 33000's! one of which is mint in the box.
 
I take a bit of a different view. I used to be into vintage, but I am all about the sound. Period. Whatever it takes to get the best sound, of whatever era, is what I am all about. I bought a Rotel RC 5000 3 years ago and recently sold it for only half what I paid for it (and yes, I did get caught up in a bidding war but I was not the only one). I was not using it anymore so I sold it. It is as rare, perhaps moreso, than a 33000. But receivers are a very collectable item. Preamps not.

But there is no denying that the drive for vintage receivers is most likely nostalgia rather than sound quality in itself.
 
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