Schiit Modi Multibit

I am a complete DAC noob, and am curious about adding an outboard DAC to improve the SQ from my old Sony DVD player I currently use as a CD player in my 2 channel system:
https://www.cnet.com/products/sony-dvp-ns710h/specs/
obviously nothing fancy, but I don't really play CDs often... mainly I just play records, listen to FM, and play some cassettes. So, not looking to spend a lot on something that's more of a curiosity for me at this point, and ultimately won't get tons of use...

The Schiit Modi 2 Uber or MultiBit have been of interest to me for awhile now, especially that they are USA made, but it has me looking at bit rates and wondering if it's "worth" going from the Sony's onboard 16bit DAC to the Modi's 24 bit?

More specifically, I am wondering why should I spend $250 on a 24 bit DAC when I could spend that or less on a used Oppo BDP-95, with an onboard 32 bit DAC, and perhaps be way ahead of the Sony DVD carrier/outboard DAC scenario.

am I too focused on bit rates? I suppose what really matters is the DAC's chip and the device quality? Again, I am a total noob with this digital stuff.
 
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I'm going to guess there are gains to be had since that Sony player is just a run of the mill primarily a DVD machine. For CD-only use I wouldn't be so focused on the number of bits as you only get 16 from your CDs. Modi MultiBit is a 16-bit DAC btw. Having a separate DAC opens up additional options such as playing files from a computer or use of streaming services such as Spotify, and you can experiment with hi-res downloads which is where those extra bits of resolution and support for higher sampling frequencies really count.
 
For CD-only use I wouldn't be so focused on the number of bits as you only get 16 from your CDs.
whoa, never realized that! duh! thanks for the feedback. sounds like I need to do more research to get a better understanding of what the hell I am getting myself into.

so, would the internal 32 bit DAC in that Oppo BPD-95, or any other high bitrate DAC, "upsample" a CD to sound "better", or will just replay it at the CD's limitation of 16 bit, at the device's best ability? these high bitrates are really just for processing high quality audio files?

so really, with an outboard DAC for CD only use, I am mainly reaping the benefits of perhaps a better processing chip than my inboard DAC; not getting benefits from teh MOAR BITzz! and the Oppo would sound better simply because it's a better machine.
 
so, would the internal 32 bit DAC in that Oppo BPD-95, or any other high bitrate DAC, "upsample" a CD to sound "better", or will just replay it at the CD's limitation of 16 bit, at the device's best ability?

Due to the higher rated resolution and additional digital processing they will likely be able to extract more details, as a pure 16-bit DAC is probably 15 bits at best in reality. Also, despite what the specs say, your player likely has a 20-bit or even a higher resolution DAC chip. All modern mass-produced electronics utilize Delta-Sigma DACs and they don't typically come with less than 20-bit resolution rating, even the vintage ones. The 16-bit audio in the specs likely only means it can only play audio CDs and doesn't reflect the actual resolution the hardware is capable of. The thing is that the DAC chip is only a part of the story, and dedicated DACs or audiophile-targeted players are typically more carefully designed providing better overall sound than generic players you get from Costco.

these high bitrates are really just for processing high quality audio files?

Mainly yes..

so really, with an outboard DAC for CD only use, I am mainly reaping the benefits of perhaps a better processing chip than my inboard DAC; not getting benefits from teh MOAR BITzz! and the Oppo would sound better simply because it's a better machine.

Pretty much. More bits help as you can get closer to true 16-bit resolution when playing CDs through a 24 or 32 bit DAC, but you cannot extract 24 or 32 bits from 16 bit samples, that information has been lost forever.
 
thanks again, you've really helped me quite a "bit".

I had parked my Sony 5 disc changer and put it and all my CDs in storage 8 years ago, but on a whim, I recently setup my old DVD player to start playing CD's again. Totally forgot I had it still! I love how tiny it is, compared to the carousel changer. I barely notice it on top of my cassette deck.

Man, so many "that's what she said" jokes rolling around in those last few sentences. har har
 
Many have ripped their CD collections to computers for convenience and use outboard DACs. If you don't see yourself getting into computer audio/external DACs one other option is to find a vintage audiophile-grade CDP. Units that were in 4-digits back in the days can often be had for cheap now and still sound better than most outboard entry to mid-level DACs.
 
I own a Modi MultiBit. I have to say it sounds great. My impression is that presents a very detailed analog sound. I don’t completely understand multibit technology. Even after reading an detailed explanation of multibit vs delta sigma I don’t completly understand the difference. Whatever. Since the Modi Multibit I seldom listen to vinyl.
 
I own a Modi MultiBit. I have to say it sounds great. My impression is that presents a very detailed analog sound. I don’t completely understand multibit technology. Even after reading an detailed explanation of multibit vs delta sigma I don’t completly understand the difference. Whatever. Since the Modi Multibit I seldom listen to vinyl.
Sure..
I guess you could call it analog?
Not sure
The non up sampling non filtered DAC Box S FL IMHO doesn’t sound analog per se, but highly musical.
The Modi is too, but doesn’t have the same flow/rythem of the FL. Or the full sound stage. The Modi MB is clearly foward, in front of the speakers, like the MB Bifrost.
The biggest problem I found with the Schiit MB’s...I always had the distinct feeling I was listening to the Schiit DAC, instead of the music.
The filtersless, NOS DAC Box S FL, is the complete opposite in this regard.
You’re find yourself listening to your music not your system.
Pretty rare quality with any piece of equipment, or system for that matter.
Pretty amazing, and simple design, but it brings a lot of musical enjoyment and that’s what it’s all about anyway. The music
Not the shiny components, or market hype.
 
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whoa, never realized that! duh! thanks for the feedback. sounds like I need to do more research to get a better understanding of what the hell I am getting myself into.

so, would the internal 32 bit DAC in that Oppo BPD-95, or any other high bitrate DAC, "upsample" a CD to sound "better", or will just replay it at the CD's limitation of 16 bit, at the device's best ability? these high bitrates are really just for processing high quality audio files?

so really, with an outboard DAC for CD only use, I am mainly reaping the benefits of perhaps a better processing chip than my inboard DAC; not getting benefits from teh MOAR BITzz! and the Oppo would sound better simply because it's a better machine.

Ok, bits are simply used to measure the quietest sound to the loudest. With 16 bits you get 96db, our roughly the difference between what you hear as silence in your listening room and standing fifty feet away from a military jet at full afterburner for takeoff. I’m not making that up. So... I ask you this: do you really think you need greater dynamic range than that from your music?

I have a Modi Multibit and I love it. I added it to my media server after noticing the CD’s sounded better direct from my Denon DCD-2560 than they did when ripped lossless. I listen to everything from Mozart to Metallica with it, and it takes anything I throw at it with ease. In A/B testing with my excellent CD player (also Multibit before delta sigma became all the rage) I am quite pleased.

Joel
 
Ok, bits are simply used to measure the quietest sound to the loudest. With 16 bits you get 96db, our roughly the difference between what you hear as silence in your listening room and standing fifty feet away from a military jet at full afterburner for takeoff. I’m not making that up. So... I ask you this: do you really think you need greater dynamic range than that from your music?

I have a Modi Multibit and I love it. I added it to my media server after noticing the CD’s sounded better direct from my Denon DCD-2560 than they did when ripped lossless. I listen to everything from Mozart to Metallica with it, and it takes anything I throw at it with ease. In A/B testing with my excellent CD player (also Multibit before delta sigma became all the rage) I am quite pleased.

Joel
thanks for your feedback, Joel. no, don't think i NEED greater dynamic range, it's just that i was trying to understand pros vs cons of using the DAC to refine the sound from my cheapo DVD player used as a transport vs just buying a better disc player. trying to learn what to look for and what to compare, etc.

I rarely play CD's; I mainly play records, plus some FM and tapes... just considering/researching/learning about DACs. i'm an analog luddite with little knowledge about this digital stuff.
 
Dynamic range and number of bits aside, Modi Multibit can help with jitter rejection when used with a cheapo DVD player which is likely where the main gains are going to be. Not too many budget DACs deal specifically with jitter over SPDIF, but Modi Multibit is one of them, well, perhaps the only one. Another way to deal with jitter from a cheapo transport is to add a reclocker such as iFi SPDIF iPurifier to the chain if the DAC isn't very effective in rejecting jitter.
 
Mimby is also the cheapest device I know of that will normalize the digital bit stream -4 db to prevent clipping. All delta-sigma DAC chips that I'm aware of follow the redbook standard to the letter and ignore that most all CDs do not adhere to the redbook standard and write CDs at +4db instead of 0.
 
Man, you guys have about convinced me to go ahead and order a MultiBit, been on the fence for over a year! My old AuneT-1 has sounded pretty good so far...:confused:
 
Man, you guys have about convinced me to go ahead and order a MultiBit, been on the fence for over a year! My old AuneT-1 has sounded pretty good so far...:confused:

It is a great little device for sure. Whether or not you will like is a different question which only you can answer. I'm in the minority but I parted ways with mine.
 
It is a great little device for sure. Whether or not you will like is a different question which only you can answer. I'm in the minority but I parted ways with mine.
Sure me as well, along with other Schiit MB’s.
Perhaps they work better in systems with newer speakers? Hard to say.
My system with modded AMT 3’s, H/K
amplification, it just wasn’t a good match. They didn’t have the flow of the rest of the components.
And I have to say, by a slight margin mind you, the simple Project DAC Box S Fl, with it’s filterless direct coupled design, achieves a level of musicality the others can’t. Including the Musette...
It’s a shame they are discontinuing it. Sill available but at full list price. For good reason IMHO.

The Starting Point Systems DAC3, gets you very close to the FL. Just not as refined. The DAC3 also as a re-clocked USB input.
I like Schiit, and their philosophy, just not their MB DAC’s so much.
As I still found myself listening to the equipment not the music.
They have a wow factor. And can impress your friends for sure. Because they sound different, and very detailed. But ultimately they lack that musicality and flow that simply lets you enjoy the music and not make a big deal about anything.
They presistantly make their presence known.
A good marketing technique for sure.
Because they’re sound is a addictive for a while. Till you realize what’s really happening.
It does sell product though.
You certainly won’t get that persistent wow factor with the project, DAC 3, or the Musette- to a lesser extent.
Keep in mind, in my opinion, the difference between these 3 Dacs is one of small increments, but the project really shines. Unbelievable for such a simple, relatively inexpensive design.
I think avoiding the filters totally really makes the difference.
The dual differential chips may as well, The combination along with relatively simple signal path.
I think the lack of wow factor puts them in a different market.
People want to, in most cases, spend their hard-earned dollars on something that really zings them.
Smart phones, fast connected cars, etc
HD Audio. Clever marketing jungles, such as “hear what you’re missing”.
Fast cars, caviar, four star daydream think I’ll buy me a football team. All that good jazz.
That’s cool that’s what keeps the wheels turning.
People love to be sold on product.
I get it!!
I have been in Sales for more then half my life.
Hehe, and Audio wise, usually keeps you searching and searching for that elusive sound.
Funny how that works!! ;)
 
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Thought that I would make an observation here. I received a YGGDRASIL last week. Christmas present to myself! It replaced an Audio Research DAC-1 20 bit, 8 times oversampler. The AR unit being 26 years old, it was probably time. Not a MINOR difference in the sound. The YGG defines the brass like it should, i.e. it sounds like brass. Low end is much better defined, bass notes now easy to follow. Always thought the bass problem was the speakers or placement of them. My conclusion: This unit is a reference DAC. Biggest change in my system ever! The equipment chain: Old Sony XA-20 ES, Pioneer SA-9500, JBL 6332s. Kind of a hodgepodge of old stuff. The Pioneer has been re-capped. I kind of get what AutoMojo is saying. On my other system I have 2 Crown 5000HDs bi-amping a pair of JBL 4429s. Using a daisy chained AES from various digital sources I can feed the Crowns directly. They have built in London Sound Web 32 bit DSPs and who knows what kind of converters. If you use the ANALOG inputs of the Crowns, the signal is A to D converted, processed then fed to the D to A section and on to the amp. Also feeding the analog input of the Crowns is a Benchmark DAC-1 HDR. I can switch between the AES and the analog input in under a second. So, what happens is I can compare 1 D/A conversion in the Crowns to a D/A - A/D - D/A. I can hear a "sweetness" in the latter that is not in the former. But the sound of the single conversion definitely has better transients and detail??? I could be all wet on the actual operation internally of the Crowns, so take it for what its worth! Should we call this "clock scatter"?
 
Sure. I think they are good DAC's, no question. You hear what is there, so to speak. And as you move up, the tones become more precise, so to speak. My point was I didn't think they are very musical.
I think part of it might be a delayed transient response with the Schiit filters, not exactly sure. To me, the NOS filterless design is like sitting there with the performers in the room. Not spacial wise so much, (lets face it, anyone can tell reproduced music from a live performance.) but flow and transiently. Non fatiguing, enjoyable, and your hearing everything (depending on your system in some cases) like most of us enjoy a live performance. We don't want screaming hi def here, in most cases....
These may be helpful in understanding.:
http://www.sakurasystems.com/articles/Non-oversampling-DAC.html
http://box-designs.com/inhalt/en/pdf/dacboxsfl.pdf
I think each of us, to some point is looking for different things in their system.
With the Schiit MB's, I found my self listening LESS to my system. Not good!!
 
Just to add, it's very refreshing to get back to listening to music, instead of fiddling with equipment, in the never ending quest. I think publication like Stereophile, and other review sites have a tendency to help people along with this syndrome. Not unlike the back in the days stereo shops, Schaack, Sound Of Music, Sound World, Team, Allied Radio, Audio King, even the early Best Buy. It was more about keeping the wheels of the economy turning then guiding you towards good sound. I find it amazing these humble, relatively inexpensive little DAC's having the ability to unlock that enjoyment out of digital music.
I still listen to the occasional l/p (more then half my collection was stolen along with most of my gear back in the mid 80,s-thank god for renters insurance-was able to move into digital), but like the convince of cd's, and computer based audio. L/p's were always a pain IMHO...too much cleaning and fiddling. And for a time got sucked into HD audio, and found that endless quest...hear what I'm missing, etc.
Thinking back to those early digital days, and how good my first cd player, a Proton with a TDA 1543, sounded with a GOOD cd, Pink Floyd comes to mind in those early days, before real remastering.
After some research, and correspondence I took the plunge on these old school DAC's, and have never regretted it since. It seems digital audio soon got caught up in the spec race, and marketing, and neglected it roots so to speak.
Very cool there are still a few out there that appreciate this approach!!
 
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I don’t experience what you do at all. After a few brief comparisons between my record, cd and lossless audio through the Modi Multibit I stopped caring and went back to just listening. My CD player sounds stellar (Denon DCD-2560) as does my digital music through the Modi Multibit. I love how my music sounds now, particularly stuff like Diana Krall.

I go back and forth between my records, CD’s and media server depending on my mood. The Modi Multibit was, for me, a revolution in the sound quality of the music from my server. Now they all sound great to me and I can just enjoy.

Joel
 
There are several good threads on headfi.org, that might help you get the difference.
And one thing I have to add, I have done some A/Bing with different DAC's I have had for comparison with friends and family. I always like getting other opinions, because sometime you get too caught up in your listening.
Anyway the DAC Box S FL was preferred over the Schiit MB's 87% of the time. When comparing the FL to a Maverick upgraded Tube DAC, the Fl was running about 84% for. All levels matched of course.
Have yet to compare it to the Musette and DAC3. Not scientific, or a controlled study by any means, but interesting non the less to me. A total of 42 friends and family.
 
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