Schiit Modi Multibit

Discussion in 'DACs' started by MikE, Jul 26, 2016.

  1. kitt1987

    kitt1987 Member

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    Ha, given the price gap between the Modi and the Yggdrasil I would certainly hope yours would sound a good deal better. :)
     
  2. automojo

    automojo OurBandCouldBeYourLife Subscriber

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    I agree, leave it plugged in, it does make a difference. It gets fairly warm. You should have decent bass, especially compared to the older Modi.
    I enjoyed mine, but moved on to a Project Box S FL. NOS multibit, filter less design and direct coupled. Has huge full, but not sloppy bass, beautiful flowing mids and highs, and also benefits from being warmed up. It's a keeper, smooth non fatiguing sound that has the musical flow the Schiit MB's lack.
    The real surprise was the Maverick D1. Old school design, flexible, and awesome sounding. I swapped out the opamp for a Sparko discrete, and picked up a 1960's Tesla tube from a friend. Each was a small improvement, not earth shattering. Which IMHO says a lot about the out of the box design. I did order the Maverick upgraded version GE tubes, and better op amps. Frankly I think most would be happy with this configuration.
    Comparing the Project S to the D1, they sound very much alike. A/Bing it's really hard to tell a difference. The Project may be slightly, and I mean slightly more refined. The D1 is much more flexible, and has USB, the Project only optical and coax inputs. The D1 USB Tenor chip is old school, sounds pretty good surprisingly so, but I would recommend a Schiit Wyrd, REGEN, of IFI USB. As the Tenor chip is not asynchronous. I use a Schiit Wyrd, along with a AQ jitter bug. Both bring the USB to the coax/optical performance.
    The Project is simple, and solid if that's all you need, and will give you that organic, smooth sounding analog sound, with out the digititus.
    My AMT3's and the Great Heils were made to extract detail, and the Schiit MB's forward midrange production, were not a good match. I may have been hearing things I was missing, but many times they were over emphasized. Interesting, but strange and fatiguing after awhile.
    The musical flow was lacking, and frankly the timing seemed off on both the Bifrost MB and Modi MB, like it was speeded up, and just off the mark. Weird I know, but I found myself avoiding my set up except for a few minutes a day. Not good!! The Project and Mav D1 solved this with flying colors!!
    I still like the Schiit MB's. Like most components, they are system and taste dependent. If matched right, I'm sure they can really shine.
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2017
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  3. derekva

    derekva This ain't no picnic...

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    I may need to beg my wife for a Modi Multibit for Xmas.

    -D
     
  4. automojo

    automojo OurBandCouldBeYourLife Subscriber

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    Or one that's based more accurately on a true multibit design. It's the same way as the Modi MB, leave it on. They are to different animals for sure, the FL won't ever sound harsh, or digital. I guess I would not call it tube sound per se, or even analog per se, but highly musical for sure.
    Your going to enjoy the flow of your music, instead of being wowed by certain tones/instruments that come to the surface as the Schiit portrays. It's addictive at first, but for myself wasn't a long haul solution. I found myself being wowed, but listening less to my music. Maybe it's a case of me hearing what I was "missing" was just too much, and a bit unnatural. A forward presentation, with lack of depth and air. Solid image for sure, but the flow seemed a bit forced, if that makes sense?
    The Great Heils are very reveling, and just not a good match. Each has his own personal taste, but the Schiit MB's are not analog sounding, if that's what your looking for.
     

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    Last edited: Dec 16, 2017
  5. bds3151

    bds3151 New Member

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    Modi MB owner for a week and was impressed in some ways (clarity, smoothness) and disappointed in others (dynamic range, bass, and muted highs). Cracked the case to take a look and it seems like capacitors are pretty good quality (Nichicon, Panasonic FC) with the exception of the three filter capacitors right off the rectifiers. These are no name with a label only of "HD". These are very small for 1000uf/25v so it took me a while to find something close. Decided to try Rubycon YXA. It's a tight fit but once I fired the Modi up the sound was transformed. Great dynamics, clarity, and the highs returned. And oh, what an improvement in the bass!. Well worth the effort!!! I'm not a fan of FC's and will try those next.
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2017
  6. isotopesope

    isotopesope Member

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    I am a complete DAC noob, and am curious about adding an outboard DAC to improve the SQ from my old Sony DVD player I currently use as a CD player in my 2 channel system:
    https://www.cnet.com/products/sony-dvp-ns710h/specs/
    obviously nothing fancy, but I don't really play CDs often... mainly I just play records, listen to FM, and play some cassettes. So, not looking to spend a lot on something that's more of a curiosity for me at this point, and ultimately won't get tons of use...

    The Schiit Modi 2 Uber or MultiBit have been of interest to me for awhile now, especially that they are USA made, but it has me looking at bit rates and wondering if it's "worth" going from the Sony's onboard 16bit DAC to the Modi's 24 bit?

    More specifically, I am wondering why should I spend $250 on a 24 bit DAC when I could spend that or less on a used Oppo BDP-95, with an onboard 32 bit DAC, and perhaps be way ahead of the Sony DVD carrier/outboard DAC scenario.

    am I too focused on bit rates? I suppose what really matters is the DAC's chip and the device quality? Again, I am a total noob with this digital stuff.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2017
  7. gvl

    gvl Well-Known Member

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    I'm going to guess there are gains to be had since that Sony player is just a run of the mill primarily a DVD machine. For CD-only use I wouldn't be so focused on the number of bits as you only get 16 from your CDs. Modi MultiBit is a 16-bit DAC btw. Having a separate DAC opens up additional options such as playing files from a computer or use of streaming services such as Spotify, and you can experiment with hi-res downloads which is where those extra bits of resolution and support for higher sampling frequencies really count.
     
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  8. isotopesope

    isotopesope Member

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    whoa, never realized that! duh! thanks for the feedback. sounds like I need to do more research to get a better understanding of what the hell I am getting myself into.

    so, would the internal 32 bit DAC in that Oppo BPD-95, or any other high bitrate DAC, "upsample" a CD to sound "better", or will just replay it at the CD's limitation of 16 bit, at the device's best ability? these high bitrates are really just for processing high quality audio files?

    so really, with an outboard DAC for CD only use, I am mainly reaping the benefits of perhaps a better processing chip than my inboard DAC; not getting benefits from teh MOAR BITzz! and the Oppo would sound better simply because it's a better machine.
     
  9. gvl

    gvl Well-Known Member

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    689
    Due to the higher rated resolution and additional digital processing they will likely be able to extract more details, as a pure 16-bit DAC is probably 15 bits at best in reality. Also, despite what the specs say, your player likely has a 20-bit or even a higher resolution DAC chip. All modern mass-produced electronics utilize Delta-Sigma DACs and they don't typically come with less than 20-bit resolution rating, even the vintage ones. The 16-bit audio in the specs likely only means it can only play audio CDs and doesn't reflect the actual resolution the hardware is capable of. The thing is that the DAC chip is only a part of the story, and dedicated DACs or audiophile-targeted players are typically more carefully designed providing better overall sound than generic players you get from Costco.

    Mainly yes..

    Pretty much. More bits help as you can get closer to true 16-bit resolution when playing CDs through a 24 or 32 bit DAC, but you cannot extract 24 or 32 bits from 16 bit samples, that information has been lost forever.
     
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  10. isotopesope

    isotopesope Member

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    thanks again, you've really helped me quite a "bit".

    I had parked my Sony 5 disc changer and put it and all my CDs in storage 8 years ago, but on a whim, I recently setup my old DVD player to start playing CD's again. Totally forgot I had it still! I love how tiny it is, compared to the carousel changer. I barely notice it on top of my cassette deck.

    Man, so many "that's what she said" jokes rolling around in those last few sentences. har har
     
  11. gvl

    gvl Well-Known Member

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    689
    Many have ripped their CD collections to computers for convenience and use outboard DACs. If you don't see yourself getting into computer audio/external DACs one other option is to find a vintage audiophile-grade CDP. Units that were in 4-digits back in the days can often be had for cheap now and still sound better than most outboard entry to mid-level DACs.
     
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  12. Jim Creek

    Jim Creek Jazz, Wine, Electronics

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    I own a Modi MultiBit. I have to say it sounds great. My impression is that presents a very detailed analog sound. I don’t completely understand multibit technology. Even after reading an detailed explanation of multibit vs delta sigma I don’t completly understand the difference. Whatever. Since the Modi Multibit I seldom listen to vinyl.
     
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  13. automojo

    automojo OurBandCouldBeYourLife Subscriber

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    Sure..
    I guess you could call it analog?
    Not sure
    The non up sampling non filtered DAC Box S FL IMHO doesn’t sound analog per se, but highly musical.
    The Modi is too, but doesn’t have the same flow/rythem of the FL. Or the full sound stage. The Modi MB is clearly foward, in front of the speakers, like the MB Bifrost.
    The biggest problem I found with the Schiit MB’s...I always had the distinct feeling I was listening to the Schiit DAC, instead of the music.
    The filtersless, NOS DAC Box S FL, is the complete opposite in this regard.
    You’re find yourself listening to your music not your system.
    Pretty rare quality with any piece of equipment, or system for that matter.
    Pretty amazing, and simple design, but it brings a lot of musical enjoyment and that’s what it’s all about anyway. The music
    Not the shiny components, or market hype.
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2017
  14. mythrenegade

    mythrenegade New Member

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    Ok, bits are simply used to measure the quietest sound to the loudest. With 16 bits you get 96db, our roughly the difference between what you hear as silence in your listening room and standing fifty feet away from a military jet at full afterburner for takeoff. I’m not making that up. So... I ask you this: do you really think you need greater dynamic range than that from your music?

    I have a Modi Multibit and I love it. I added it to my media server after noticing the CD’s sounded better direct from my Denon DCD-2560 than they did when ripped lossless. I listen to everything from Mozart to Metallica with it, and it takes anything I throw at it with ease. In A/B testing with my excellent CD player (also Multibit before delta sigma became all the rage) I am quite pleased.

    Joel
     
  15. isotopesope

    isotopesope Member

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    thanks for your feedback, Joel. no, don't think i NEED greater dynamic range, it's just that i was trying to understand pros vs cons of using the DAC to refine the sound from my cheapo DVD player used as a transport vs just buying a better disc player. trying to learn what to look for and what to compare, etc.

    I rarely play CD's; I mainly play records, plus some FM and tapes... just considering/researching/learning about DACs. i'm an analog luddite with little knowledge about this digital stuff.
     
  16. gvl

    gvl Well-Known Member

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    689
    Dynamic range and number of bits aside, Modi Multibit can help with jitter rejection when used with a cheapo DVD player which is likely where the main gains are going to be. Not too many budget DACs deal specifically with jitter over SPDIF, but Modi Multibit is one of them, well, perhaps the only one. Another way to deal with jitter from a cheapo transport is to add a reclocker such as iFi SPDIF iPurifier to the chain if the DAC isn't very effective in rejecting jitter.
     
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  17. dmckean

    dmckean AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    Mimby is also the cheapest device I know of that will normalize the digital bit stream -4 db to prevent clipping. All delta-sigma DAC chips that I'm aware of follow the redbook standard to the letter and ignore that most all CDs do not adhere to the redbook standard and write CDs at +4db instead of 0.
     
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  18. AlTinkster92

    AlTinkster92 AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    Man, you guys have about convinced me to go ahead and order a MultiBit, been on the fence for over a year! My old AuneT-1 has sounded pretty good so far...:confused:
     
  19. gvl

    gvl Well-Known Member

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    689
    It is a great little device for sure. Whether or not you will like is a different question which only you can answer. I'm in the minority but I parted ways with mine.
     
  20. automojo

    automojo OurBandCouldBeYourLife Subscriber

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    Sure me as well, along with other Schiit MB’s.
    Perhaps they work better in systems with newer speakers? Hard to say.
    My system with modded AMT 3’s, H/K
    amplification, it just wasn’t a good match. They didn’t have the flow of the rest of the components.
    And I have to say, by a slight margin mind you, the simple Project DAC Box S Fl, with it’s filterless direct coupled design, achieves a level of musicality the others can’t. Including the Musette...
    It’s a shame they are discontinuing it. Sill available but at full list price. For good reason IMHO.

    The Starting Point Systems DAC3, gets you very close to the FL. Just not as refined. The DAC3 also as a re-clocked USB input.
    I like Schiit, and their philosophy, just not their MB DAC’s so much.
    As I still found myself listening to the equipment not the music.
    They have a wow factor. And can impress your friends for sure. Because they sound different, and very detailed. But ultimately they lack that musicality and flow that simply lets you enjoy the music and not make a big deal about anything.
    They presistantly make their presence known.
    A good marketing technique for sure.
    Because they’re sound is a addictive for a while. Till you realize what’s really happening.
    It does sell product though.
    You certainly won’t get that persistent wow factor with the project, DAC 3, or the Musette- to a lesser extent.
    Keep in mind, in my opinion, the difference between these 3 Dacs is one of small increments, but the project really shines. Unbelievable for such a simple, relatively inexpensive design.
    I think avoiding the filters totally really makes the difference.
    The dual differential chips may as well, The combination along with relatively simple signal path.
    I think the lack of wow factor puts them in a different market.
    People want to, in most cases, spend their hard-earned dollars on something that really zings them.
    Smart phones, fast connected cars, etc
    HD Audio. Clever marketing jungles, such as “hear what you’re missing”.
    Fast cars, caviar, four star daydream think I’ll buy me a football team. All that good jazz.
    That’s cool that’s what keeps the wheels turning.
    People love to be sold on product.
    I get it!!
    I have been in Sales for more then half my life.
    Hehe, and Audio wise, usually keeps you searching and searching for that elusive sound.
    Funny how that works!! ;)
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2018

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