Seriously, 13.2 channels? What a joke Denon.

Well, you do know they deflate in an instant after activation, don't you? Oh crap I fell for it!
 
I am primarily a two channel guy who likes vinyl BUT when I want to experience home theater I use my Denon 13 channel set up. I was skeptical before I bought an ATMOS receiver but after getting it all setup and calibrated the experience is like nothing else in the world. I have various demo DVDs from Dolby Labs to demonstrate the effect and to everyone I have played the 747 taking off there is nothing short of astonishment in their face. I have even had a few people actually duck as the plane flies over their head. Watching the later Transformers movies having items seem to drop out of the sky over your head and land around you is indescribable, you just have to experience it.

This is not HiFi in the purest sense but rather entertainment that immerses you in a sound field. Yet there is something to be said for simple two channel stereo that can accurately place a sound stage.
 
I am primarily a two channel guy who likes vinyl BUT when I want to experience home theater I use my Denon 13 channel set up. I was skeptical before I bought an ATMOS receiver but after getting it all setup and calibrated the experience is like nothing else in the world. I have various demo DVDs from Dolby Labs to demonstrate the effect and to everyone I have played the 747 taking off there is nothing short of astonishment in their face. I have even had a few people actually duck as the plane flies over their head. Watching the later Transformers movies having items seem to drop out of the sky over your head and land around you is indescribable, you just have to experience it.

This is not HiFi in the purest sense but rather entertainment that immerses you in a sound field. Yet there is something to be said for simple two channel stereo that can accurately place a sound stage.
Thank you for posting your experience with a 13 channel setup. Is your setup 7.1.6? If so, where do you place your .6 speakers? Where can one purchase the demonstration discs you describe? Thanks.
 
There we go, a tried and true example. So what it comes down to is how much is that kind of experience worth to you and where the point of diminishing returns is given your budget and HT size. I would love to experience it but as far as setting it up in my home, a) I have an open concept home so my living room is far from acoustically favorable (I have more bass near my kitchen table than I do in my seat), b) my current 5.1 system, while very good quality stuff, cost about $100 from resale shops which is what kept it safely within budget and c) well...I can't remember c but I guess it comes down to unless I am in a rich uncle's will (I have no rich uncles) I will never own such a thing.

I am primarily a two channel guy who likes vinyl
I have recently started putting together a 2 channel vintage system and I am really enjoying the experience. AR-2ax speakers that I restored, an older Yamaha receiver and a technics SL-D3 TT. I'll stop highjacking your thread now, TC. sorry
 
I started out with mono. An old console with a turntable and one big 12inch speaker. Then I got into stereo. After I heard quadraphonic I wanted it but was too poor. I started my first surround setup when I inherited a second stereo from a deceased family member. I only had 4 speakers, and was using a Yamaha DSP1 that I got second hand. The rear channel was mono, L-R matrixed, but still sounded better on HI FI vcr. I eventually got a center channel and it was better than the phantom setting. I was using a pair of ADS L1230s for the mains and Boston Acoustics A400s for the rears. I tried to equalize the different brands using pink noise but never got them completely the same. I had a Cambridge Soundworks for a center channel. When Laser Disc came out the video really got so much better, but the surround not so much. It was when DVD came out and Dolby and DTS started to use dedicated full bandwidth channels I got my first AVR with the proper codecs. It just got better and better. I got a Bluray player and the codecs were even better on that. Super quiet Dolby Digital HD. That's when I got a newer AVR and my first subwoofer. I then got different rear channel speakers to match the timbre of the ADS L1230s. I tried 810s because they had the same drivers and crossover points, just different cabinets. Then I tried L1090s and the bass was too thin. I then tried L1290/2s for the rears and then the sound was real nice. I eventually tried the 1290/2s in the front channel in stereo to compare them with the 1230s and the upper bass was a tid bit clearer, so I swapped the 1230s to the rear.
Always looking for more and learning and reading as time went by, I built a center channel using all the same drivers and crossover that originally were in the 1290/2s. I bumped into Rich So from reading this forum and copied the center channel on his website. I finally got a second pair of L1290/2s for the rear channel so all 5 speakers were same drivers and crossovers. I bought a 5 channel amp that is fully balanced and high current an Anthem P5 statement and refurbished 2 Nikko Alpha 440s to power an atmos system using an Anthem AVM60 for my pre pro.
I started out with small ADS L300s for my height channels because I couldn't find any information as to what the bandwidth was and wasn't happy with the volume they put out during movies. The timbre was the same but too small to keep up with the floor speakers. I found out why. ALL the speakers in an Atmos set up should be the same. Someone posted a link on this forum and I am going to post it for this group.
https://www.dolby.com/us/en/technol...tmos-home-theater-installation-guidelines.pdf
I am getting pretty old, but to hear ridiculous statements like 2 ears 2 channels makes me laugh. Just shows that you haven't heard a decent setup and are close minded to multichannel. As for 4k and 8k, we all know the bigger the display the higher resolutions do make a difference. And they will hit a limit when we can't see the difference . As long as we enjoy music and movies, there is nothing wrong with moving forward with better formats, equipment, and technology. It is very encouraging to see acoustics being discussed more often. The last hurdle to get over in the home.
http://www.mh-audio.nl/Audio Tips.asp?what=chain
 
Just wanted to add if you want great imaging and no reflection issues go with binaural. Best imaging I ever heard.
 
...I started out with small ADS L300s for my height channels because I couldn't find any information as to what the bandwidth was and wasn't happy with the volume they put out during movies. The timbre was the same but too small to keep up with the floor speakers...
How many height speakers did you use and where did you mount the height speakers? ceiling?, on top of floor standing speakers? How about a picture or two. Thanks.
 
Just wanted to add if you want great imaging and no reflection issues go with binaural. Best imaging I ever heard.
Unfortunately binaural recordings are few and far between. OTOH you could use a Smyth Realiser for your headphone listening. However, they are not cheap.
 
I am getting pretty old, but to hear ridiculous statements like 2 ears 2 channels makes me laugh. Just shows that you haven't heard a decent setup and are close minded to multichannel. As for 4k and 8k, we all know the bigger the display the higher resolutions do make a difference. And they will hit a limit when we can't see the difference . As long as we enjoy music and movies, there is nothing wrong with moving forward with better formats, equipment, and technology. It is very encouraging to see acoustics being discussed more often. The last hurdle to get over in the home.
http://www.mh-audio.nl/Audio Tips.asp?what=chain

I have said that tongue-in-cheek, which I believe is usually the case when someone does say it.. I have heard some damn good multichannel sound. But all it really shows about me is the relative value I place on music SQ vs HT entertainment. I don't mean to imply that everyone should have my priorities, or that mine are superior; they're just mine. I agree that multichannel is fun for films, and can also sound great with music, but often they don't. Hard to do it really well without being spendy, imo, and it helps if you have a dedicated space, too. I already have enough gear showing just doing 2.1. So use a narrower brush when you paint, please.
 
How many height speakers did you use and where did you mount the height speakers? ceiling?, on top of floor standing speakers? How about a picture or two. Thanks.
I went with 4. I only placed them on top of mains because my house is in the middle of remodel.
First pic is what I had before my granddaughter moved in.
Second pic is the box for the center speaker.
Third one is the small L300s I painted black to match the mains.
Fourth one is a pair I got off Craigslist in Connecticut. Guy replaced them with Magnepans.
Fifth one is that pair sanded and painted to match front pair that were already black. I also rewired with 12AWG oxygen free copper.
Gathered most gear used for fairly cheap and rebuilt where needed.
Sixth pic is drivers and crossover from Rich for the center channel.
Seventh is putting the gear in a server rack. Not going to bore you with all pics, but got the rack from work, they were tossing it.
I put heavy duty casters on it with locks. Amps all used. Anthem P5 was 5 yrs old and got it for half price of new one. One Nikko Alpha 440 was part of an old stereo and got a second one off Craigslist for 260$. Had both totally refurbished to drive small height speakers. Old one drove ADS L1230s very well back in the day so I knew 240 watts would be good enough for future large speakers.
Hope to have everything complete in the next 18 months. Oh and I had to get the Anthem AVM60 new for 2800$
To get a theater of this level with all new gear it would kill my wallet. Just shopped wisely and a lot of bargains out there on older equipment that is good equipment if you know what to look for and as long as you bring it up to spec and it is not falling apart.
Just got a pair of L1290/2s 4 weeks ago in Falmouth MA. off of Craigslist. The older couple were selling an entire theater including the display for 1100$ They are still trying to sell the L300s mounted on the walls with the brackets and wire. It was like going into the twilight zone. The speakers were completely perfect. Had the original manual and original cartons as well. The gentleman didn't care for music, and never watched movies just sports and hunting programs. He bought all the nice gear, included separate amps, DVD player CD player Yamaha processor and had the dealer hook it up and then it just collected dust for the last 30 yrs. I felt guilty getting the speakers for 700$. I could have put them on Ebay and got at least 1200$ in a minute. He was just glad to get them out of his house.
They are going to be my new mains when the construction is over with. I am going to build slightly shorter cabinets for the 4 black ones I am using now and transfer the drivers and crossovers for ceiling mounting. There is an excess length on the original cabinets that can be removed. Each driver is contained in its own seperate compartment, woofers that is. The midrange and tweeter share the same enclosure. I believe the empty extra space on the bottom of the original cabinet was there to get the tweeter and mid at ear level when in the seated position. Also to get the woofers up higher off the floor to help with floor reflections. I won't need the added length or weight when I go to the ceiling.
 

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I went with 4. I only placed them on top of mains because my house is in the middle of remodel.
First pic is what I had before my granddaughter moved in.
Second pic is the box for the center speaker.
Third one is the small L300s I painted black to match the mains.
Fourth one is a pair I got off Craigslist in Connecticut. Guy replaced them with Magnepans.
Fifth one is that pair sanded and painted to match front pair that were already black. I also rewired with 12AWG oxygen free copper.
Gathered most gear used for fairly cheap and rebuilt where needed.
Sixth pic is drivers and crossover from Rich for the center channel.
Seventh is putting the gear in a server rack. Not going to bore you with all pics, but got the rack from work, they were tossing it.
I put heavy duty casters on it with locks. Amps all used. Anthem P5 was 5 yrs old and got it for half price of new one. One Nikko Alpha 440 was part of an old stereo and got a second one off Craigslist for 260$. Had both totally refurbished to drive small height speakers. Old one drove ADS L1230s very well back in the day so I knew 240 watts would be good enough for future large speakers.
Hope to have everything complete in the next 18 months. Oh and I had to get the Anthem AVM60 new for 2800$
To get a theater of this level with all new gear it would kill my wallet. Just shopped wisely and a lot of bargains out there on older equipment that is good equipment if you know what to look for and as long as you bring it up to spec and it is not falling apart.
Just got a pair of L1290/2s 4 weeks ago in Falmouth MA. off of Craigslist. The older couple were selling an entire theater including the display for 1100$ They are still trying to sell the L300s mounted on the walls with the brackets and wire. It was like going into the twilight zone. The speakers were completely perfect. Had the original manual and original cartons as well. The gentleman didn't care for music, and never watched movies just sports and hunting programs. He bought all the nice gear, included separate amps, DVD player CD player Yamaha processor and had the dealer hook it up and then it just collected dust for the last 30 yrs. I felt guilty getting the speakers for 700$. I could have put them on Ebay and got at least 1200$ in a minute. He was just glad to get them out of his house.
They are going to be my new mains when the construction is over with. I am going to build slightly shorter cabinets for the 4 black ones I am using now and transfer the drivers and crossovers for ceiling mounting. There is an excess length on the original cabinets that can be removed. Each driver is contained in its own seperate compartment, woofers that is. The midrange and tweeter share the same enclosure. I believe the empty extra space on the bottom of the original cabinet was there to get the tweeter and mid at ear level when in the seated position. Also to get the woofers up higher off the floor to help with floor reflections. I won't need the added length or weight when I go to the ceiling.
Wow, that sounds like quite a setup. It also sounds like you are a smart shopper, getting some excellent used equipment and saving a lot of money in the process. Thank you for sharing the pictures and your experience. :thumbsup:
 
I'm calling it: Next up will be 17.2 surround sound. Like 13.2, but with the addition of four Depth speakers. And the listener will be suspended above them in the middle of a geodesic dome which will be integral to the concept.......... :dunno: :crazy: :rolleyes:
-Adam
Stuck in stereo
 
Wow, that sounds like quite a setup. It also sounds like you are a smart shopper, getting some excellent used equipment and saving a lot of money in the process. Thank you for sharing the pictures and your experience. :thumbsup:


Thanks for the compliment. It is much cheaper to get vintage gear that is good. I have seen bookshelf speakers, new that are as much as 1100$ and don't even come close to what you could get for 200$ just by keeping an eye out on Ebay or Craigslist or US Audiomart. Sometimes you can get real lucky. Hope the information helps for all.
 
I was never very serious about music until the later 80s. I was in my car more than I was at home so I invested my money in a really nice car stereo. All yamaha, of course (always loved the quality and sound).

Fast forward to now.

I have a nice 5.1 system in my living room and my receiver (yamaha, of course :biggrin:) has a 7.2 Stereo setting. If I place my chair in middle of the living room and place my surround speakers behind me, it is like I am back in my car listening to my stereo.I use no imaging just straight stereo into front and rear speakers, with a subwoofer. It truly is like being in the center of the music on a very large stage.

I still love the 2 channel set-up in my office but if I am feeling nostalgic I will fire up the living room system, put in some Erasure or Dead or Alive and crank it up to -5db to +2db (all I need is a steering wheel and I am totally back in 1988).

Just rambling on again.
 
I have a Yamaha A1000 integrated amp in my basement waiting to be used in a 2 channel system when house is done. Also have a Yamaha PX3 to go with it in my closet. Going to be all analog.
 
I have said that tongue-in-cheek, which I believe is usually the case when someone does say it.. I have heard some damn good multichannel sound. But all it really shows about me is the relative value I place on music SQ vs HT entertainment. I don't mean to imply that everyone should have my priorities, or that mine are superior; they're just mine. I agree that multichannel is fun for films, and can also sound great with music, but often they don't. Hard to do it really well without being spendy, imo, and it helps if you have a dedicated space, too. I already have enough gear showing just doing 2.1. So use a narrower brush when you paint, please.

I've been giving some thought to the '2 ears - 2 speakers' idea. It really only applies to headphones if you think about it. Otherwise it's '2 ears - 2 speakers' and a room that is nothing like the room it was originally recorded or for multitrack mixed/played back in.

You can certainly argue about how well multichannel and other approached capture that original sound, but it is an oversimplification to say that stereo is the best way to go for all recordings WHETHER OR NOT THAT'S HOW THEY WERE ORIGINALLY RECORDED.
 
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I've been giving some thought to the '2 ears - 2 speakers' idea. It really only applies to headphones if you think about it. Otherwise it's '2 ears - 2 speakers' and a room that is nothing like the room it was originally recorded or for multitrack mixed/played back in.

You can certainly argue about how well multichannel and other approached capture that original sound, but it is an oversimplification to say that stereo is the best way to go for all recordings WHETHER OR NOT THAT'S HOW THEY WERE ORIGINALLY RECORDED.

Why are you shouting and do you mean to imply I made that oversimplification argument here? I'm confused. An argument looking for a place to happen? No thanks.
 
I've been giving some thought to the '2 ears - 2 speakers' idea. It really only applies to headphones if you think about it. Otherwise it's '2 ears - 2 speakers' and a room that is nothing like the room it was originally recorded
or for multitrack mixed/played back in.

You can certainly argue about how well multichannel and other approached
capture that original sound, but it is an
oversimplification to say that stereo is the best way to go for all recordings WHETHER OR NOT THAT'S HOW THEY WERE ORIGINALLY RECORDED.
Each format has strengths and weaknesses. But I have a nice concert in 5.1 that has the crowd whistleing and clapping and it sounds more surrounding pardon the pun in multichannel. I've watched football and basketball games in 5.1 and like the ambience.
Thats why I said binaural is a better format for precise imaging, theres no room interaction. Absorption, reflection,
resonance. I enjoy all formats and look forward to advancements in audio and video.
 
I think it's interesting, though it's not something I have the money or the space to do. There was a time I couldn't think of multichannel sound as anything but "gimmicky." I was working at Radio Shack in the 90's when they started selling home theater systems. I loved hooking up a turntable and playing a mono album in fake surround, but I didn't find much use after that.

About 7 or 8 years ago, I was working for a regional rent to own company when a coworker had to let his 5.1 system go back. I kept waiting for him to get it back, but he never did, so I purchased it (receiver, 5 DVD changer, 5 speakers, and a stand) for $10. Yes, $10!!! I had won a contest and had $500 in store money to play with. It wound up being $500 plus having to pay the tax. I've been using it ever since, although I replaced the bookshelf speakers that were in use for the rear channels with a pair of Marantz speakers I got in the 80's. It's not the "ideal" set-up, but after adding a powered sub to it, I'm impressed.

I dare say if one had the chance to experience 13.2, they'd find it not to be a gimmick after all.
 
They are doing stuff to add more realism to movies. I don't have an issue with it even if I am happy with 5.1. Some people are enthusiasts.
 
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