marcmorin
RIP 1953-2020
I fail to see how that addresses lateral weight distribution about the horizontal axis.
SME 3009 S2 - lateral balance help needed
- Thread starter beatcomber
- Start date
I fail to see how that addresses lateral weight distribution about the horizontal axis.
beatcomber
AK Member
I'm just asking about setting of this weight here:
I thought that this is the "lateral balance weight" and this can be set with instructions from the manual or by tilting up the back of TT. I thought that this topic is about this thing
You're supposed to lift the back of the arm tube with a screwdriver to confirm the lateral balance, not the entire table.
I'm just asking about setting of this weight here:
I thought that this is the "lateral balance weight" and this can be set with instructions from the manual or by tilting up the back of TT. I thought that this topic is about this thing
I think the problem is the instructions you are referring to (lift the back of the table) are for an arm different to the SME. The lateral weight adjustment for that arm is a totally different design to the SME's, making those instructions moot for the SME.
I'm a bit lost here - I need to take another look at my tonearm when I'm back home...
The first tutorial says that I should lift the back of the arm tube (not sure if it's possible when my arm is locked?) with a screwdriver but the latter tip from marcmorin was:
"Tilt the opposite side of the table up in degrees equal to (or as close as you can figure) the offset of the arm (example: 23deg) adjust the lateral weight so the arm doesn't want to climb towards the spindle. You're done."
I thought that this meant exactly what was described on my example screenshot from the manual (taken from yamaha TT and for other arm).
The first tutorial says that I should lift the back of the arm tube (not sure if it's possible when my arm is locked?) with a screwdriver but the latter tip from marcmorin was:
"Tilt the opposite side of the table up in degrees equal to (or as close as you can figure) the offset of the arm (example: 23deg) adjust the lateral weight so the arm doesn't want to climb towards the spindle. You're done."
I thought that this meant exactly what was described on my example screenshot from the manual (taken from yamaha TT and for other arm).
When Marc says tilt the opposite side of the table, he doesn't mean the back of the table. (which that Yamaha says to do) He means the whole left side of the table, front and back since the arm is mounted on the right side of the 'table.
The difference in techniques has to do with the Yamaha's arm having conventional ball and race bearings as well as the lateral weight in a different location and the SME a vertical knife edge one with the lateral weight and adjustment in another spot.
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bobins08
Celebrating Life
Thank you for clarifying and restoring some sanity!
This started as an SME 3009 thread with knife edge bearing. Process for checking "lateral" balance for that arm.
bobins08
Celebrating Life
Klin,
I think if you start with the wayrod all the way in, and float the arm (balance for zero VTF), and then lift the left end you will see arm move in towards the spindle.
If you move the wayrod out to the point where the tonearm does not drift inwards and stays stationary then you have it in the right place. If your tonearm is already not drifting then the wayrod may already be in the correct place. The instructions tell you the position should correspond to the weight (in grams) of all the stuff you added to the headshell ( cartridge weight, mounting hardware, etc). There are markings on the wayrod for this. Lifting the left side is a test.
After you lock in the wayrod position set VTF and verify with a scale. After that set anti skate.
I think if you start with the wayrod all the way in, and float the arm (balance for zero VTF), and then lift the left end you will see arm move in towards the spindle.
If you move the wayrod out to the point where the tonearm does not drift inwards and stays stationary then you have it in the right place. If your tonearm is already not drifting then the wayrod may already be in the correct place. The instructions tell you the position should correspond to the weight (in grams) of all the stuff you added to the headshell ( cartridge weight, mounting hardware, etc). There are markings on the wayrod for this. Lifting the left side is a test.
After you lock in the wayrod position set VTF and verify with a scale. After that set anti skate.
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marcmorin
RIP 1953-2020
Correct :thmbsp: you should find that the amount of antiskate needed will be reduced.
Can you please elaborate on the "offset of the arm". Not sure I understand that statement. BTW I have a non-improved II on a Fairchild 412 and have struggled with the same issue as the OP so I am excited to see there are some experts offering advice.
marcmorin
RIP 1953-2020
The arm "offset" is the bend in the arm to get the offset for the cartridge. If you take a line through the center end of the headshell through the center of the vertical pivot, and continue through the end of the C/W stub you will see all the mass that is right and left of that line. You want that mass to be the same. The intsructions normally have you try to figure out that difference by lifting the back of the arm and see which side it wants to fall to.
The way I was taught, is much much easier.
With the wayrod all the way in and arm floating (balance for zero VTF), the left side lifted I get arm moving towards the spindle.
With the wayrod set to 1st position (for 2 grams cartridge according to instruction in the manual) arm is not moving towards the spindle. Actually it's not moving at all. Shall I keep it like this?
You were right, the required anti-skating value is also smaller now.
I'm just surprised that according to instructions in the manual, for my Shure v15 III, I am supposed to set it for level 3 on scale (cartridge weight 6 grams). Why there is such a big difference?
With the wayrod set to 1st position (for 2 grams cartridge according to instruction in the manual) arm is not moving towards the spindle. Actually it's not moving at all. Shall I keep it like this?
You were right, the required anti-skating value is also smaller now.
I'm just surprised that according to instructions in the manual, for my Shure v15 III, I am supposed to set it for level 3 on scale (cartridge weight 6 grams). Why there is such a big difference?
marcmorin
RIP 1953-2020
With the wayrod all the way in and arm floating (balance for zero VTF), the left side lifted I get arm moving towards the spindle.
With the wayrod set to 1st position (for 2 grams cartridge according to instruction in the manual) arm is not moving towards the spindle. Actually it's not moving at all. Shall I keep it like this?
You were right, the required anti-skating value is also smaller now.
I'm just surprised that according to instructions in the manual, for my Shure v15 III, I am supposed to set it for level 3 on scale (cartridge weight 6 grams). Why there is such a big difference?
Because there are a lot of variables not taken into consideration. How the force of gravity plays in all of the parts involved, how internal frictions plays in all of the parts is not exact, and exactly the same in every arm made. Let nature take its course. Simply tune what you have the way it wants tuned.
The reduction in the amount of antiskate needed now is due to reducing/eliminating a "potential" in "onset" for the arm wanting to move inward.
ColonelKurtz
Are my methods unsound?
This thread is 2 years old, but here I am having this problem. Having trouble adjusting the lateral position of the wayrod because on my SME 3009 II (early) there are only red markings on the part of the wayrod where the rider weight is, but in all the instruction manuals the wayrods have markings on both arms of them. I'm stumped.
The SME Series III solved this confusing issue neatly. Though its construction is quite different, the method is adaptable to the Series II.
With cartridge and all hardware mounted — Loop a thread under the anti-skate rod (to which the hanging weight attaches, but do not have the hanging weight attached.). Then put a small screwdriver under the end of the headshell, at its center point. The line between the two defines the tonearm's center of mass. Then lift the entire arm a couple of mm so it's not resting on the knife-blade bearing — you're holding it in the air.
The arm will tilt to one side or the other, due to lateral imbalance. Adjust the wayrod sideways, whichever way is needed, until the arm doesn't tilt.
This method balances the arm using the actual weight the arm is carrying. No need to weigh the cart, screws, etc and then guess which "mark" (or where in between marks) to set on the way-rod, no need to tilt the entire table 23° (which requires removing everything from the table, such as dustcover, and any accessories which may be resting on the table — I often have a spare cart+headshell, stylus magnifier, stylus brush on the plinth). Also, tilting the entire table 23° may not be possible if there's a shelf above — and it really really should be exactly 23° to be accurate...
With cartridge and all hardware mounted — Loop a thread under the anti-skate rod (to which the hanging weight attaches, but do not have the hanging weight attached.). Then put a small screwdriver under the end of the headshell, at its center point. The line between the two defines the tonearm's center of mass. Then lift the entire arm a couple of mm so it's not resting on the knife-blade bearing — you're holding it in the air.
The arm will tilt to one side or the other, due to lateral imbalance. Adjust the wayrod sideways, whichever way is needed, until the arm doesn't tilt.
This method balances the arm using the actual weight the arm is carrying. No need to weigh the cart, screws, etc and then guess which "mark" (or where in between marks) to set on the way-rod, no need to tilt the entire table 23° (which requires removing everything from the table, such as dustcover, and any accessories which may be resting on the table — I often have a spare cart+headshell, stylus magnifier, stylus brush on the plinth). Also, tilting the entire table 23° may not be possible if there's a shelf above — and it really really should be exactly 23° to be accurate...
Dear bimasta, thank you for explaination abt it but I couldn't understand some points to fix my lateral balance.
You said "Loop a thread under the anti-skate rod (to which the hanging weight attaches, but do not have the hanging weight attached.)" Are you mention about the Anti-Skating shaft ? If yes, I couldn't understand what is the point because anti skating shaft is fixed. You couldn't lift the arm from there.
Do you mean, loop a thread where is "balance weight" rod ???
And another question is, "end of head-shell" do you mean very end of sheel where is closer to us or where shell attached to arm ???
I will appriciate if you can clafy these.
Thanks
Loop the thread around the wand (arm) UNDER the area where the bias weight loop attaches, between the counterweight and knife edge, out near the counterweight. Do this without the hanging bias weight attached.
I've lifted mine at the centered front of my headshell, not where it joins the arm. I'm thinking it may not matter which side of the headshell it is lifted at.
I've lifted mine at the centered front of my headshell, not where it joins the arm. I'm thinking it may not matter which side of the headshell it is lifted at.
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