So What is Still Able to Compete?

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MannyE

MannyE

Exterminate!
Let's imagine we are going to go to a show and in our hotel room we have to compete with VPI, KEF, Arcam, Marantz, Mark Levinson and McIntosh...

Our system needs to keep up with these guys...everyone wants to stand out...this is a show and we are on the same floor as these guys...

What are we building using equipment from the 50's to the 90s?
 
Maybe it's wishful thinking, but I don't think Quad 57's or KEF 107's would be out of place in those rooms. Haven't owned much other "top shelf" gear from that era, just these two speakers, but I find them very good. Certainly they were in the same class (or better) than the KEF LS50's I had.
 
I have a pair of original Acoustat Monitor 3 with servo charge OTLs still going strong. They were reference for other manufacturers. Pretty incredible sounding. The King is alive and kicking butt!

Other than that I would nominate my Citation XX and LSR&D line up.
 
The system I would set up (if I could!).

Source.
Nakamichi Dragon Turntable

Preamplifier.
Audio Research SP14

Amplification.
Carver Silver Seven tube mono blocks.

Speakers.
Infinity IRS V


Would it compete? Or even sound good. I'd love to find out.
 
So I'll bring my Stax DMA-X2
A Denon PRA-S1 pre with the S1 head amp
The Onkyo Scepter 5001 speakers
A Spectral 2000 professional/3000 digital set
A Sony PS-X9 TT with the XL-55pro cartridge.
 
Ds2000 said:
So I'll bring my Stax DMA-X2
A Denon PRA-S1 pre with the S1 head amp
The Onkyo Scepter 5001 speakers
A Spectral 2000 professional/3000 digital set
A Sony PS-X9 TT with the XL-55pro cartridge.
Click to expand...

I almost said the Sony PS X9. Spectral amplification is amazing. I'd love to hear that setup
 
motorstereo said:
Seriously..........do you guys really think 30+ year old all original equipment will compete with today's best?:rflmao:
Click to expand...

That's an interesting question with a complex answer IMHO.

If you mean the very best of today then no, it's a rare vintage piece that will compete.

However, if by the best of today you mean the best that someone can buy easily, without searching, and for less than the price of a good used car, I'd be willing to bet vintage holds up rather well in comparison.

There are some (a very few) true hi-fi stores out there but it's apparently not a thing anymore, unless you are looking at the McIntosh/Martin Logan stuff at Magnolia.

Please note that I am not running down Mc/ML it just seems that that is about the only true high end stuff that your average person is going to be exposed to these days
 
^^^^^Not really if one is trying to answer the op's question. I'm highly doubting anyone that produces any dynamic product in any industry has said "we're laying off our engineers and going back a few years to our older products as that's the best we can do," I have some 30+ year old gear in my rig that was totl when it was new and it would be narrow minded on my part to think that it would be the equal of today's totl equipment.
 
Didn't see the OP state that the gear still had to have all of its original parts. That's how I see the comment "all original", and yes I'd have to agree that 30+year old gear may be severely handicapped by old, possibly used up parts inside. I was on the line of thinking that the vintage gear would be as fully restored as reasonably possible. All of my gear is, I wouldn't even think of having it any other way.
 
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Yeah, I was referring to "fully restored," preferably...although my Quad's are "original"...sound great...better than the LS50's (IMO) that they "replaced"...and I believe KEF is taking LS50's to shows...setting them right next to the Blade...so my statement was not that they would best TODAY'S TOTL, just that they wouldn't be out-classed at your typical show...of course I've never been to a "show" so I know nothing...was really just comparing them to the LS50, I guess!
 
The first problem would be all the equipment that does not qualify to be audiophile....

That would be a process of putting equipment on a test bench and disqualifying based on frequency response, signal to noise ratio and total harmonic distortion. Because it's the individual capability of each piece of equipment and not some assumption that new TOTL just has to be better than the older TOTL. The misconception is also about not knowing how one piece of equipment can distort the sound within a system. The hobby has always been about the few pieces that are worthy and the knowledge to create a system with a sound that is stimulating. This can not be done by simply purchasing something a bit better and just plugging it all in and thinking your finished. It's not a competition between technical advances through time, it's what you personally can figure out to make the sound better and better without end. That's why most members systems these days are a combination of new and old....

Like, try to find an amp that outdoes the Yamaha MX-1000.....add the best new turntable and new speakers they make today to the Yamaha amp and you can switch out amps for years before you find something better. Add the Yamaha NS-1000 speakers to the Yamaha amp and you will be hard pressed to find a better speaker replacement.....but all that depends on the quality of the preamp. Put a McIntosh or Marantz tube preamp in the mix and you will be hard pressed to find a better replacement.

But the point of it is not the equipment......it's the sound that matters !
 
motorstereo said:
Seriously..........do you guys really think 30+ year old all original equipment will compete with today's best?:rflmao:
Click to expand...

To answer your question. No, I don't think that today's top products would be bested by past pieces. They may not even compete when setup side by side.

I am pretty sure that in the system I listed the preamp would be the weak link. There are better, much better. The source (Nakamichi TT) is also easily bested on its own. Not to mention if the amplifier and speakers would even play nice together.

That said. I'd love to hear a system using top components that are a good match together from the past and see how changes in sound have progressed. Is the gap between now and then closer to the Grand Canyon or a crack in the side walk.
 
Great responses!

And of course the equipment is restored. The idea is brand new vs "brand new". I should have made that clear.

I love the Dragon fantasy system! But the turntable alone is 5 figures. Maybe let's put a cap of $6,000 on the source to better reflect the average cost of a mid-high turntable rig (say a Prime or SL 1200) and the cart.

The choice of the Sony PS-X7 was surprising until I sat down to listen to my own X5 with a Goldring 1012GX mm cart. That thing is probably the most underrated turntable of the 1980s.

Unfortunately, I haven't been able to research my own hypothetical high end sleeper system yet due to some crazy work hours but I love the responses so far. I can't wait to sit down with some LP records spinning on my Sony and get in on this!

Or I just had another idea. How about we set a 50% price point vs new? So if a VPI Prime is 5500 when all is said and done (table/cart/speed control) let's say 2750 for a vintage table? Same with the amp. Can we compete against a modern system costing 12k with 6k worth of vintage?

That's more fun and interesting I think.
 
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