Solid state amps that sound tube like

I guess the first matter to resolve is what is "tube sound". From my experiences tube gear can have a wide range of voicing. Are you thinking of something like a McIntosh or Audio Research? Over the years I've never found a unit that typlifies the sound across the board. Maybe a Sherwood S5000 comes close to being in the near middle of the range of the amps I've listened to over the decades.

I've heard varioius descriptions of what persons perceive as the tube sound and usually it boils down to a perception either developed frm listening to lesser quality or out of spec units or only a very narrow range of models within a company. The reality is that there is probably a wider range of voicing than with SS units.

That all said, I'd suggest that if yu equatee McIntosh tube units as the tube sound then the first generation SS units and first 2 receivers probably come as close as you will likely find. Frank did not want discontinuity of voicing when the company was moving to SS. Other companies making the transition really paid no attention that their tube units and SS sounded so different. Some tried to voice th SS units towards their tube models but Frank seemed to have the best success at this.

While some would proffer early Marantz units at least through the 22xx line as tube like, it is interesting to note that they do not sound like the tube Marantz units. The tube Marantz had more detail and air; actually sounding lighter and less like what a tube unit McIntosh sounded like where as the SS units sounded more similar to the McIntosh than the tube Marantz.

Of the units I have in-house the Sony STR6060FW and Sherwood S9500 remind me of the things I like when looking and listeing to tube units. Well, also have my 1st generation McIntosh amps and the C28 to add to the mix. The Sony STR6120 does come a little closer to the Marantz tube voicing that I remember while mooving further away from the McIntosh units.

Bob Carver was mentioned and whether you think of him as a wizard or warlock, he was an interesting fellow. You wanted a SS unit that sounded like a xyz tube unit, give hiim a day or so and he'd get his amp to sound that way. He felt these modifications were an interesting marketing approach but strayed from what perceived as an uncolored amp and termed them more than once a hack job but, he wanted to prove a point.

Another thing to consider are the speakers. If you grew up with pre-acoustic suspension designs the response of most were limited due to technology limitations and because of things like surface noise of records. Put some modern units on these speakers today and the sonic effect will be to return you to the days of yesteryear to some degree. FOr some who grew up in that era they remember the rolled off frequency response but many fail to realize it was the speakers and not the electronics.

Happy hunting.
 
As I see this has sort of turned into a bit of a "tubes vs solid-state" thread, all I can say is this: I'm listening to the old, '80's "Best Of War And More" CD right now (One of the greatest-sounding CD's I've ever heard - Totally-"test-disc"-worthy), and the sound is warm, smooth, extremely-dynamic, and lifelike (Vocals, especially background vocals/harmonies, are very-clear with lots of space between them - Same goes for instruments). You can really feel the music when you give that CD some volume on a good-quality amp or receiver. It's sounding REAL-good right now.

If the OP is looking for the kind of sound I've mentioned, and he doesn't want to pay much, the 2000x and 4000 are no-brainers. Awww, crap. The CD ended. I've already heard it twice today, so I can't really play it again, as much as I'd like to - That stuff leads to CD's getting shelved for long periods of time, and I don't ever want to get sick of this one. Sounds awesome though (There are plenty of albums I haven't heard yet with the new receiver, so whenever I throw on one of them, it's like I'm listening for the first time... again - I love this thing).
 
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QUOTE//"Solid state amps cannot reproduce the soundstage expansion of tubes so that eliminates the vast majority of SS amps and receivers. Warm, tubby sound is too often confused with tube sound.

I've compared many SS amps to my MAC tubes. The closest any comes to producing soundstage expansion is the Kenwood L-09M. The VFET Yamaha B-2 and Sony TA-5650 get honorable mention.//QUOTE


That runs REAL-hot, from what I understand. The Kenwood is great, but those are pretty-expensive amps. I paid $55 (after a $5 cash-back) for my 2000x and $40 for my 4000. And I have to say, my sound is anything but tubby-sounding. The bass is tight, the soundstage is seamless and hole-free, and the entire frequency spectrum is clear and very-well-defined. Extremely-musical sound. There is definitely a strong synergy between my receiver and my speakers, and that has something to do with it as well.

I'm mostly-talking about the lower-wattage Sansui models like the 2000x, as well as the 1000x and the 4000, and their integrated equivalent (There was a 7000, but I think it was only sold in europe and Asia). I stayed away from the higher-powered models (like the 9090db and other later amps, and basically any of the high-wattage Sansuis) because that's really a different sound when it starts trading off warmth for brute power (I've heard Sansui owners say things like "The lower-wattage models sound better at low to moderate volumes, but once I get up into louder territory, the power of the bigger models really-kicks in and takes over, and that's where I like the higher-wattage models better" - But in my small apartment, I rarely go past moderate volume, so the higher wattage does me no good) - Plus, my speakers don't need much power to sing anyway. I prefer that type of setup. Maybe I'll change my mind down the road and start saving for a G-Series (Wait, no I won't.....), but for now I'm right where I want to be.

It's funny, I was just watching a video (using my home system for sound) someone put up a video on YouTube of a 7000 receiver powering a pair of DQ-10's, and I said to myself, "Hey! I know that sound!" (The guy used a decent mic, so the sound was clear - It wasn't all-clacky and jittery like most YouTube videos).

I've owned a mint 1000x and a 7000. Also three Eights. While they are seamless and have their charms, they do not have anything close to the soundstage of the L-09M, let alone a tube amp.
 
I suspect the relay in the output circuit for protection is the birthplace of SS's sound character. If the relay is eliminated and short-circuited, there would be a remarkable sonic change closer to tuby sound, I suppose. The Relay is kind of a pinpoint contact, and that a large signal current flows through it.

Deleting the relay in a relay-equipped design is NEVER a good idea. You do know what DC will do to your drivers?

I also seriously doubt deleting the relay with magically give a solid state amp tube sound. BTW, the L-09M is relay equipped.
 
The main reason I didn't buy it is that it sounded almost a dead-ringer for my Grodinsky Model 5 amp...which also sounds great with a tube pre. I decided that I was going to buy the new Krell or Luxman integrated instead, then didn't do that either...and now the DNA .5 has been sold. Oh well, there will be others (I have a glut of gear anyway, at least I keep reminding myself that).

I see you run Van L speakers...those most surely do not need tubes to image, if they're anything like the quartets I heard at his place.

My brother had built me some nice tower speakers, using Vifa woofers and mids and Phillips tweeters. I asked Van L to redo everything as they were too bright, but the cabinets are so well built. So Van L replaced the tweeters with Dynaudio and the best crossover I could afford. Then he fine tuned them. Now their perfect for me. Van L definitely has a knack for speakers. When I told him I was running the DNA .5 and VTL, he said that's one of the best combos he had heard.
 
The only SS amps that can come relatively close to the "traditional " tube sound are those based on Mosfet outputs, IMO:

Think Hitachi hma-7500, as just an example.
 
' a vintage amp 30-70 watts that can mimic the warm sound of a tube amp ' is a vintage amp 30-70 tube amp, hands down winner....
 
Van L definitely has a knack for speakers. When I told him I was running the DNA .5 and VTL, he said that's one of the best combos he had heard.

From my limited exposure to him, I could still tell he had a great ear for gear and would take him at his word. His setup was one of the absolute best I have ever heard, anywhere, in any setting. It was absolutely removed from the speakers, the sound just floated in the room. I can't remember what it was but tubes were in the chain, including some really esoteric tube power amp.
 
That's the first time I've heard anybody describe Carver's sound as tube-like!

Carver M-500t. 250 wpc, large, analog meters. Beautiful to look at AND to hear~


Actually if you follow to link below to the Stereophile "Carver Challenge" article, you'll see that in 1985 Bob Carver modified a Carver M1.0 solid state amp to mimic a Conrad-Johnson Premier Five (the name of this amp was later revealed) so well that the "expert panel" couldn't distinguish the difference in a blind test. Carver later sold a series of amps that mimicked tubes, some had the TFM (Transfer Function Modified) designation. I think the article is fascinating.

http://www.stereophile.com/features/the_carver_challenge/
 
Someone probably already mentioned but I was well into tube audio when I heard the sansui 717 integrated and thought it was fantastic.
Totally tube sounding to my ears and regret very much letting it go.
perhaps another or mayby another model like the 919 will come my way.
I think those or earlier models may sound the same.
 
The only SS amps that can come relatively close to the "traditional " tube sound are those based on Mosfet outputs, IMO:

Think Hitachi hma-7500, as just an example.

I hear people mention "mosfet-based amps" and "capacitor-coupled amps" in relation to tubey-sounding solid-state units. Now, I barely-understand what any of that means, but I know my receiver falls into both categories. Ahh, what does it matter? I "enjoy" it....... Lots. Maybe it's a combination of those two things as well as the lower wattage that contributes to it's tubelike character. I DO know that Sansui designed their earliest solid-state receivers and amps to sound like their tube gear.

By the way (To the OP), the 2000x and 4000 (as well as others) are designed so you can separate the preamp from the power amp, in case you want to add a different amp later on while still using the Sansui's preamp section. Lots of cool features like that.

It amazes me how many great vintage amps and receivers can be had for very-little money (including the aforementioned Hitachi HMA-7500).
 
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Unless its a financial thing (and I understand that it often is), I honestly think that anybody after the tube sound should acquire actual tube gear. Something trying to be something else is just that.
 
Deleting the relay in a relay-equipped design is NEVER a good idea. You do know what DC will do to your drivers?

I also seriously doubt deleting the relay with magically give a solid state amp tube sound. BTW, the L-09M is relay equipped.

Well. I couldn't see what you mentioned about the function of the relay.
Sorry for my limited English comprehension. Protection works when transitors'
overheat is detected and relay gets the output circuit open, does it? Even though there is the relay, DC passes it, if it is leaking since relay is not a cap. Btw, my Luxman amp has the relay with dirty contact and sound doesn't come out until I turn the volume over the center. It needs cleaning.
Could signal passing through such a contact be pure? This contact point always need refreshing. However, voltage is low, then sparking, which refreshes the contact, will not take place. Protection function is the inevitable, of course, for safety.
 
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The most "tubelike" I have got out of a solid state piece, is the Marantz 2325. But ya, tubes are there own. Dr. Audio, have you done anything special to your AU-9900? Not the first time I've read you type about yours.

I gave both of mine a complete overhaul. Replaced all the electrolytic caps except the main ones, replaced all the pre-driver transistors (the originals go bad and become intermittant), replaced the speaker relay. That's it, nothing magical. IMO, it's the best sounding integrated Sansui made. I like the AU-919, but the 9900 and 11000 are magic.
 
I have a Sony STR 6055 receiver and it has a sound that is in the "tube like" category, but when my Dynaco SCA-35 was running with Gold Aero matched tubes, it was in a class by itself.
 
Solid state amps cannot reproduce the soundstage expansion of tubes so that eliminates the vast majority of SS amps and receivers. Warm, tubby sound is too often confused with tube sound.

I've compared many SS amps to my MAC tubes. The closest any comes to producing soundstage expansion is the Kenwood L-09M. The VFET Yamaha B-2 and Sony TA-5650 get honorable mention.

"Soundstage expansion" could also be described as tube-induced distortion.

You guys can argue all day about specs and capabilities of tubes vs. SS gear. Who cares? OP is looking for a SS amp that sounds like tube gear. OP, take a look at Sansui AU series gear. Lot's of it around, no unobtanium parts and very well built. For tube-like solid-state, there is not much better.

My AU-9500 images every bit as well as any tube gear I have heard, has all the 'air' of tube gear, too. There is plenty of tube gear out there that sounds like crap solid-state as well. Ignore those who tell you SS can not possibly sound like tube gear and go listen.
 
Ignore those who tell you SS can not possibly sound like tube gear and go listen.

It's simply an opinion some of us have, mine is based on direct comparison between some of the usually mentioned ones like the MAC 1900, and vintage tube gear like my Fisher x202. The MAC 1900 is 'tube like' but it doesn't hurt anybody to point out that there are, in fact, differences in the sound and one is not exactly like the other. I'm not putting down either one, if I didn't like early solid state I wouldn't have so much of it..it's all good stuff, just different flavors of it.
 
I haven't heard an SS system that sounds like tubes. Tubes just sound so different. There is a depth and fullness there that I've never heard from SS.

My BGW SS amp is very good though and I love its sound, but it's not a tube sound.

I like SS for being SS and I like tubes for being tubes.

And never the twain shall meet...

At least not yet for me! :D
 
"Soundstage expansion" could also be described as tube-induced distortion.

You guys can argue all day about specs and capabilities of tubes vs. SS gear. Who cares? OP is looking for a SS amp that sounds like tube gear. OP, take a look at Sansui AU series gear. Lot's of it around, no unobtanium parts and very well built. For tube-like solid-state, there is not much better.

My AU-9500 images every bit as well as any tube gear I have heard, has all the 'air' of tube gear, too. There is plenty of tube gear out there that sounds like crap solid-state as well. Ignore those who tell you SS can not possibly sound like tube gear and go listen.

:bigok:

That was beautiful, man.

An important thing to ask the OP is, what level of versatility is he looking for? Does he want something to play LOTS of different music?
 
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Two SS amps I've used that exhibit the "sweetness and liquidity" often associated with tubes are the Forte Model 4 and the Conrad Johnson Sonographe SA-250. From what I've read, many of Nelson Pass's designs are also very tube-like, especially his Class A designs (think Aleph 3, Aleph 30, Aleph 0, etc.).
 
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