Some Empire Turntable History

So I have the 698 turntable at home and it sounds great! The cueing is working in the up and down motion but does not lift at the end of the album. I read in a post that the cueing has a photo cell that automatically detects the album's end and lifts.
Can someone elebrate a little more on this issue I am having?
Thanks
 
So I have the 698 turntable at home and it sounds great! The cueing is working in the up and down motion but does not lift at the end of the album. I read in a post that the cueing has a photo cell that automatically detects the album's end and lifts.
Can someone elebrate a little more on this issue I am having?
Thanks

It might just be an issue of alignment. If you aren't already, go to www.vinylengine.com, sign up (it's free,) and download the instructions for the 698. The instructions on how to align the arm housing correctly are there. It's easy to do.
 
I went to the site you recommended and downloaded the instructions.

The tone arm platform was pointed towards the platter to far. I turned it about a quarter inch away from the platter and the cueing lift light went on and the tone arm now lifts at the end of the record.

Do you have any suggestions on what settings I should have for the Tracking Force and the Anti Skating? I have the original Empire 2000E 111.

I searched on Vinyl engine and it shows the tracking is 3/4 - 1 1/2. I read on another site where someone with the same cartridge set his at 1 gram. Should I sent the tracking force at this for my empire 698?

The stylus tip is a nude ellipitical diamond (0.2 x 0.7 mil). I can't find any info as to what I should set the Anti Skating adjustment at? Some say it should match the tracking force number.

I just read another site that really explains this. They are very explicit on how to set up your tonearm and cartridge.

http://www.gcaudio.com/resources/howtos/cartbasics.html

Unfortunatley the equipment they are selling is very expensive.

thanks again.
 
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Is there a sticky or prior post for techs who work on empires. Im not talking about full on restores ala analog engineering but someone who can do basic clean, lube, mounts etc for a value ebay purchase or thrift finds.
 
I have another issue
I have set the anti skate and tracking to "0" (as per set up instructions for the 698).
I have turned the counter weight all the way to the back of the tone arm and it still will not balance. The cartridge drops to the album no matter how much weight I adjust to the rear of the tone arm.
Any suggestions?
 
I have another issue
I have set the anti skate and tracking to "0" (as per set up instructions for the 698).
I have turned the counter weight all the way to the back of the tone arm and it still will not balance. The cartridge drops to the album no matter how much weight I adjust to the rear of the tone arm.
Any suggestions?

You also have to have the tracking force dial on the side of the arm housing set to zero as well. If it is at anything other than zero, the downward pressure from the internal VTF spring will cause it to never balance out.

The Empire arm is a dynamic balance arm. It is not like other arms where you turn the counterweight to get balance, set a scale on the counterweight to zero, then turn the counterweight to get your tracking force corresponding to the scale on the counterweight.

In a dynamic balance arm, after you set the balance point you turn a dial (usually on the side of one of the vertical bearings) that contains a spring that applies the VTF. Theoretically, doing it that way means you will always have the same VTF no matter what angle the turntable is at or if the disc is warped. It's because the VTF is applied via a spring rather than by unbalancing the arm that you are able to play a record with an arm like the Empire's upside down.
 
I do have my anti skate (on the top of the arm housing) and tracking force (on the side of the arm housing) set to zero.

sorry to sound like a newbie, but I don't know what you mean by "set a scale on the counterweight to zero". Also confused when you say "then turn the counterweight to get your tracking force corresponding to the scale on the counterweight".

Is the scale something i need to buy?

my apologies, but I am learning everyday.
 
sorry to sound like a newbie, but I don't know what you mean by "set a scale on the counterweight to zero". Also confused when you say "then turn the counterweight to get your tracking force corresponding to the scale on the counterweight".

Is the scale something i need to buy?

No, no, no...I was just explaining the difference between Empire's arm and other, more common arms. The scale reference and the "turn the counterweight to set tracking force" is for other arms, not the Empire's.
 
I am changing this post because I went on utube and saw some very good videos on setting up dynamic tone arms and now everything makes sense. My 698 is running like a finely tuned instrument. I may still do some nick picking adjustments to the azumith and angle just to satisfy my "perfectionist" behaviour.

Thanks empirelvr for your guidence and more over your "patience".

I am going to donate to this site and become a subscriber.
 
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I have another issue
I have set the anti skate and tracking to "0" (as per set up instructions for the 698).
I have turned the counter weight all the way to the back of the tone arm and it still will not balance. The cartridge drops to the album no matter how much weight I adjust to the rear of the tone arm.
Any suggestions?

It is very simple to set the tone arm on a 698 Empire turntable.

1. Once the cartridge is mounted set the dials for tracking force and anti-skating to zero.
2. Adjust the counterweight until the arm is in neutral balance.
3. Set the tracking force using the dial only, do not readjust the counterweight
4. Set the anti-skating adjustment to indicate the same setting as the vertical tracking force you just adjusted. That's all there is too it.

How do you know what vertical weight to set it at? One way is to use a test record like the Shure Audo Obstacle Course. Set the VTF at the lowest weight where the most heavily modulated sections play without distortion. If you do not have such a record, adjust the weight to the lowest force recommended by the cartridge manufacturer. Because the Empire arm is dynamically balanced and built to the highest precision it will track at the lowest possible tracking force. The 98 arm may look more massive than some thinner lighter arms but its actual dynamic mass which is what matters is much lower because the force is applied with a clock mainspring, not a mass imbalance.

If you have an older 980A arm you set the anti-tracking force by sliding the nylon loop that holds the counterweight back and forth just as you would on an SME arm. If you have an older arm than that there was no anti-skating adjustment.

I've checked the calibration of both the 698 and the 980A arm's settings using weights and it is always correct. I've checked the anti-skating using the middle unmodulated grooves of the Shure test record and it is also always correct. IMO you can rely on those settings.

BTW I think the correct overhang adjustmet is 3/8" for both. Anyone have any data? It's very easy on the 980 arm, you just line up the stylus tip with the front edge of the plastic cartridge mounting block.
 
Thanks for the input Soundminded
If you set the tracking force to it's lowest manufacture's settings, then do you also set the anti skate to the same setting as you suggested?
I read to use a grooveless record to set the anti skate. There are two thoughts on this. One states it is the only way to get a proper setting. Sumiko disagrees stating skating is a dynamic force and using a grooveless album will result in over compensation. Any thoughts on this?
I am also read to check VTA and SRA as well as the azimuth. It looks like a lot of complicated settings but I read the results are well worth it. Any thoughts?
 
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Whatever VTF you set is what to start with for anti-skating. If you hear inner groove distortion you can go lighter or heavier on the anti-skate dial.

I have set anti-skating using an oscilloscope. Set up your table with some kind of Y-adapter to add the right and left channels. Swap the leads at the cartridge for one channel only, that is, invert the phase at the cartridge.

You will have to use a phono preamp to get the signal to the voltage level you can read on a scope. So feed the output to one channel in a 'scope.

You play a highly modulated pure tone on a test LP. At the same time adjust the anti-skating till you get the lowest output.

What you have done is subtract the output of one channel from the other. You want the minimum difference between the two channels. The test track is mono, equal in each channel. So the minimum output says you have adjusted the tone arm to track dead center of the groove.

Don't forget to swap the tone arm leads back to correct.


Everybody ignores this good technical way to get equal outputs from each channel. I don't' know why, but I keep posting and no one has ever used it. I'm just an old hard headed engineer.
 
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Thanks for the input Soundminded
If you set the tracking force to it's lowest manufacture's settings, then do you also set the anti skate to the same setting as you suggested?
I read to use a grooveless record to set the anti skate. There are two thoughts on this. One states it is the only way to get a proper setting. Sumiko disagrees stating skating is a dynamic force and using a grooveless album will result in over compensation. Any thoughts on this?
I am also read to check VTA and SRA as well as the azimuth. It looks like a lot of complicated settings but I read the results are well worth it. Any thoughts?

The Shure Audio Obstacle Course has an ungrooved section midway between the lead in and runout grooves to assist in setting anti-skating. Skating is the tonearm's natural tendency to apply more force inward than outward, it's inherent in the natue of pivoted tonearms. Anti-skating is a counterbalancing force applied outward to result in equal force on the two walls of the groove. I found that the setting for which the stylus had no tendency to skate inward or outward in this test always coincided with Empire's recommended setting. In other words the calibration on the tonearm was correct all the time.

There may be a variation on the correct setting for the innermost and outer most grooves as antiskaing may be a function of where the tonearm is on the record, I'm not sure. If this is the case the setting is a compromise. Frankly I wouldn't worry much about it.

The output of a cartridge is not related to either the vertical tracking force or the antiskating force. It is related to the modulation of the groove at any given moment and the efficiency of the cartridge in converting mechanical motion of the stylus into electrical energy. The goal is to use enough force to keep the stylus in contact with the groove at all times but as little as necessary to avoid distortion due to mistracking. This occurs when the force on the stylus is so great that it momentarily loses contact with the groove and does not follow the indentations as intended. Both undertracking and overtracking will cause increased record wear. Overtracking causes the stress on the vinyl to exceed its modulus of elasticity resulting in permanent deformation of the vinyl, in other words it doesn't bounce back from the stress of the stylus against it. Undertracking results in record wear because when the stylus gets back into contact with the groove the stress will also cause permanent deformation. This is why for longest record life the lowest dynamic mass, lowest tracking force, and highest compliance arms and cartridges are your best bet. FR can be altered using equalization (RIAA equaliztion already provides 40db difference between lowest bass and highest treble.) Ultra high compliance moving magnet cartridges like those TOTL models manufactured by Empire, Shure, ADC in dynamically balanced precision tonearms like those manufactured by Empire are the best choice. The reduced stress not only results in longer record life but in longer stylus life as well.
 
I have three and they are all as you described and not like in the pictures. Looks to me likes it's been modified. $202 w/6 days to go... OMG. I must be sitting on a gold mine.
 
I don't recommend a clamp for the 698. Part of the design of the table is that the rubber mat only touches the record at two points. Use of a clamp would dish the disc down, causing vinyl to be in contact with the platter where there is no mat.

What are your thoughts on using a weight with a 208?
 
What are your thoughts on using a weight with a 208?

Love it! Especially if you put another mat on the platter, which is easier to do on a 208. It's much easier to cut out the smaller hole needed to clear the built in 45 RPM adapter than to cut the almost 5" hole needed on the 598/698. Plus since it's not a suspended TT, you can also use a record weight without worry.
 
Make sure the counter weight is installed correctly, Mine was on backwards and I had the same issue. Once I turned it around it was great.
 
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