Sound bar - maybe not for me?

scrtchypants

New Member
My TV is driving me nuts. It's a Samsung 50" LED. I've fiddled with both TV and source settings (Motorola DSS) and while some provide different results, none are satisfactory. In order to hear dialog, I have to crank it and then I get blown away by background/effects.

Based on reviews and opinions (that I get from discussion groups - like this one) I bought a Yamaha YAS-108 and hooked it up. Oh great, I'm in the minority - because this thing sounds horrible to me. It's like people are speaking through a wet towel - yes, even with Clear Voice enabled. I've tried all the settings - not enough treble for this cat.

I was a bit bewildered by the connections at first - it seems weird to me that the sound bar should be the hub of my system. I'm old, I guess because I would have thought that the soundbar would simply be an "external speaker". As it stands, both the DSS and TV are connected to the soundbar through HDMI (ARC for the TV). And, even with the TV in game mode, I can't seem to eliminate the bad lip-syncing effect. Will changing the configuration and using the optional digital audio connection fix this? Will my DSS remote continue to function for power/volume control?

I'm not home right now, but my thoughts are that about 7 hours from now this thing is going back into its box. I very humbly ask if anyone has a tip or two they could share before that happens. And yes - all of this is quite new to me and so it is more than likely that I've done something dumb or not provided enough information. Please go easy on me.

Cheers.
 
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I've had good luck with my Martin Logan MotionVision, but it isn't within your budget I'm sure. ;) (I bought it used, but it was near $1,200 new.) We use it primarily for gaming and I'll watch the rare old TV episode or classic film on it, so I can't speak regarding how it would do with modern content. It can, however decode Dolby Digital and DTS, and it connects to the TV via optical digital cable. (It has a faux "surround" mode that can cast sound off to the sides, which is fine for me since I will never do another home theater--that ship has sailed.) The TV (an LG 4K model) seems to send the digital audio straight through the TV, as received, without any of its own processing. I'd have to look at the manual for my soundbar to see if it has other "voice enhancement" modes. But, it does have the "folded motion" tweeters that work more like an accordion, which are not something you'd find in most (if any) other soundbars, and it has no problems with clarity. I even have it in a really bad location and it still seems to do a respectable job.
 
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I tried a few things last night, from changing to digital audio, repositioning the unit, HDMI + digital audio. Nothing really helped the sound and the real deal breaker - I could only get my TV remote to change the volume and turn the unit off - not back on. So, back in the box it went.

I suppose one could get away with calling me a control freak, but I prefer to be able to adjust things to the point of discomfort and then dialing them back. For example, the fan in my car's ventilation system has a "maximum" setting. In my view, that setting should blow back your eyebrows. It should be inappropriate to ever use that setting and it certainly should not leave you wishing you had more power.

So, with that weird foray into left field, does anyone know if there's a soundbar that offers a user interface to the tone control circuitry, and can be operated as if it were actually part of the TV?
 
You might not want to hear this, but you might need a full blown 5.1 (or more) AVR that allows adjustment of the center channel, from which most dialogue emanates but, even then, unless the source is recorded with a discrete channel, perhaps that won't even suffice. If that doesn't do it, well, then I'm sure there are solutions, but they would probably be pricey.
 
Some TVs even have a built-in "voice enhancer" mode that is supposed to accentuate voices over other sounds, but like any faux DSP effect, I found them to be lacking in any that I have tried.

It might also help to know what type of program is being watched. Movies? Old television series? News broadcasts? Cable TV shows? Video games?

In fact, a newscast might be a good way to test the speaker. I would say that if a soundbar can't even handle a news broadcast and make it intelligible, then it might just be a poorly designed soundbar. Many "consumer" products forgo a good, clean midrange reproduction by emphasizing the "sizzle" (jacking the treble and upper bass to make it "sound better" on the sales floor). I find that if a speaker gets the midrange right, then the rest is a bonus. Some soundbars don't use the best of speakers in them, partly due to trying to make the soundbar into a really slim format that is not noticeable under a TV screen (to where they have to use multiple small drivers). My MotionVision is a little larger than others, so it shares drivers with their Motion series bookshelf speakers. Size isn't everything but on the other hand, that missing intelligibility to voices may be partly cured by a better soundbar that has higher quality speaker drivers in it. I figured that if I did try a cheaper soundbar and it was barely an improvement over the TV's built-in speakers, I would probably send it back.

I just wonder, like @the skipper says, if the solution might cost a bit more than you're budgeting for.
 
Thanks for the replies.

@the skipper - that wouldn't be terrible if it could be made to be simple. TV/home theatre is not a passion for me. I (read, my wife) want to turn the thing on, watch a show, and turn it off. It kind of rots my pajama chords that being able to hear dialog from a brand new TV that actually has speakers isn't a given. But I digress. I thought a soundbar would be a quick and dirty way to get decent sound without adding another remote to the coffee table.

@Wildcat - funny, I actually was doing my testing during the 6 o'clock news. Of course, audio is highly subjective, and based on the reviews of this particular soundbar I acknowledge that I must be one odd bird, but to my ear, the news sounded better through the TV's speakers. Mind you, I had to crank the volume to unpleasant levels, but the actual voices had the clearer tone that I was hoping for. The soundbar made everyone sound like they were talking through a wet towel. And to answer your first question, we watch a little of everything. Most problems occur if watching something from BluRay, but we've also experienced it while watching movies/shows from the DSS. I've run through every possible combination of audio presets between the TV and source, including messing with compression levels.
 
For most people, a soundbar does provide a workable intermediate solution for a TV's sound without going whole hog into a full blown home theater system. It may be that your expectations exceed what they can actually accomplish.

Since so many people are satisfied with these simple solutions, I have to wonder. Have you ever had your hearing checked?

In your travels, have you ever heard a system that actually meets your expectations?
 
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The soundbar made everyone sound like they were talking through a wet towel.
That does make me think that the midrange isn't sufficient in that particular soundbar. It may just be a matter of finding a couple of stores and auditioning them until you find one that sounds more balanced. The "wet towel" reminds me of cheaper systems I've heard that sound bad at any volume. Almost as though the mid-bass is so strong that it overpowers the midrange. It's kind of like trying to hear yourself talking if you plug your ears.

To be honest, I've also heard some awful 5.1 surround system demos that were similar--voices weren't so great, but the overly loud booming bass and sizzly treble made them unbearable to listen to, no matter what the volume setting.

I liked the idea of the Pioneer soundbar that Andrew Jones designed, but I saw in reviews that the electronics were rather poor (especially the connectivity). And I wasn't willing to gamble.

There are good soundbars out there, but they're expensive. I'm almost tending to lean towards what @the skipper recommends--perhaps a smaller scale 5.1 system with a good set of speakers might be more to your liking and more in line with your budget. Even a 3.1 system or 3.0 system may do it for you, avoiding the clutter of rear speakers. But that's assuming you want to deal with the extra speakers. In my case, it had to be a soundbar, and run off the same remote, so anyone in the family can turn it on and not deal with turning everything else on, setting sources, etc.
 
For most people, a soundbar does provide a workable intermediate solution for a TV's sound without going whole hog into a full blown home theater system. It may be that your expectations exceed what they can actually accomplish.

In your travels, have you ever heard a system that actually meets your expectations?

"My travels" are typically to and from work, which takes me through a combination of mildly picturesque farm country and suburban hell. Unfortunately, if I want to go gadget shopping in person it's usually a whole day affair. As such, after a pile of research, I purchased from Amazon. Point taken, though. I'll forego my deep disdain for chain furniture and electronics stores and stop in to hear things for myself the next time an opportunity presents itself. I know of no small, mom and pop shops - which is where I'd go if I could.
 
They make soundbars that are 3.1 channel now. The bar has a dedicated left, right and CENTER speaker. This may help with clarifying the dialogue.
 
I was a bit bewildered by the connections at first - it seems weird to me that the sound bar should be the hub of my system. I'm old, I guess because I would have thought that the soundbar would simply be an "external speaker". As it stands, both the DSS and TV are connected to the soundbar through HDMI (ARC for the TV).
Most modern TVs / soundbars offer multiple ways to connect them. While I don't use one, I've considered adding one to the bedroom system.

My choice would be to source the soundbar via TV's optical output. In that way, it is truly an "external speaker" and TV remains hub for sources. You can run the TV standalone. Or switch on the soundbar and control its gain via its own remote.
 
Moot I'm sure at this point, but did the tv offer some type of night time compression in it's menu?
Not moot - I'm still watching it naked (the TV, not me). Both the TV and the main source, my STB, have compression settings. I've tried every combination. One thing I've noticed - the TV adjusts volume downward, not based on set volumes, but over time. If I detect that the TV volume has gone down, I'll pause it, wait 15 seconds, and when I hit play the volume is back up to normal levels. It's making me batty.
 
You might check out ZVOX sound bars and sound bases. They reportedly have a proprietary circuit for better vocalization. I have an old Soundbase of theirs and enjoy it. NFI.
 
Not moot - I'm still watching it naked (the TV, not me). Both the TV and the main source, my STB, have compression settings. I've tried every combination. One thing I've noticed - the TV adjusts volume downward, not based on set volumes, but over time. If I detect that the TV volume has gone down, I'll pause it, wait 15 seconds, and when I hit play the volume is back up to normal levels. It's making me batty.

This doesn't sound (no pun intended) right to me. Your TV should not be lowering the volume by itself. Perhaps it has a defective sound card that is causing it to have crappy dialogue?
Make sure that you have no surround settings on in the STB or TV, they just make everything sound weird including "Game Mode".

Can you try what E-stat said above even temporary with another home system to just rule out the TV as the issue? Does the TV have analog audio output? If you still have crappy output with a known good two-channel system then the TV would be your issue.
 
^ ^ ^

My wife and I have both noticed that TV sound lowers itself late at night, no matter what channel we're watching.
 
You might check the factory website for firmware updates for your TV. It may have a bug that's been fixed or performance improved.
 
Not moot - I'm still watching it naked (the TV, not me). Both the TV and the main source, my STB, have compression settings. I've tried every combination. One thing I've noticed - the TV adjusts volume downward, not based on set volumes, but over time. If I detect that the TV volume has gone down, I'll pause it, wait 15 seconds, and when I hit play the volume is back up to normal levels. It's making me batty.

Exactly what are you pausing?
 
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