Speaker Shopping - one man's experience with High End models
- Thread starter jblnut
- Start date
jblnut
Don't Overthink It
Long night but they are in place...phew. Much much heavier than I expected. Was lucky to have help getting them in place. Took 4 people to carry each box in without strain. They are warming up now, having been in a 30 degree truck all day. So far...magical. Listening to an old favorite I know like the back of my hand (Aja MFSL CD) and I am overwhelmed with details in every range. The beryllium tweeter is astounding and the bass...omg.
More details as the night progresses....
jblnut
More details as the night progresses....
jblnut
I saw the specs on that speaker...incredibly low bass! That has to sound fantastic!
No surprise you needed help--shipping weight for each speaker is ~180 lbs each.
Interesting response from Floyd Toole:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-s...evel-home-theater-thread-51.html#post52520193
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-s...evel-home-theater-thread-51.html#post52520193
jblnut
Don't Overthink It
OK the back story, part 1:
I've been watching Salon 2 prices for the last year and a half (as well as the large format JBLs like 4365/4367/M2/K2) trying to get a feel for locations, going rates etc. I wasn't expecting to see anything near my price range and it's just part of this hobby (keeping track of "on the radar" gear). A pair of Salon 2's (demos, but sold as new with warranty) popped up on Audio Classic's website last week with no price listed. With nothing to lose I emailed them to inquire and was floored by what came back - a price thousands less than the USED ones I had been tracking. This couldn't be right I thought, but hey here was the email quote in black and white.
So, time for "that talk" with my spouse. She has always been very supportive of my hobby and this time was no exception. She said yes so fast I kinda thought maybe I should have gone for the big Magicos on Agon instead
. But that would be just overkill for my room so - agreement in place - I sent the OK back to Steve at AC.
A day later I get an email from him saying "wow, you got a really GREAT price on those". Turns out he was selling both a pair of Studio 2's as well as Salon 2's. Yes, he mixed up the prices and yes, he stood by the mistake and honored his quote. THAT, is an impressive individual my friends and now I get why AC has such rabid and loyal fans. I still thought "this is too good to be true" until the boxes actually appeared on a forklift last night and got loaded (one at a time, two trips) into the wagon.
I'm still in shock and awe here actually. They are by a decent margin the most I've spent on any component and my conservative side was telling me to just stick with what I have. But a recent health scare for both my wife and me has made me realize we don't live forever. And even if we live well into our 80's our hearing may not last that long. So, I decided that the price was within reach and I better start enjoying my "forever" speakers before the end gets too close.
The price came into focus again as a friend and neighbor helped me unpack. It went like this:
Friend "I'm not gonna ask how much these were but given the weight they must have been expensive"
Me "Well I didn't pay full price but the list is 22".
Friend "well 2200 is a lot and even if you paid half price you got a good deal it looks like"
Me "thousand, not hundred"
Friend ...stunned silence then "wow"
I listened until well past midnight (they are superb at low volumes as I had hoped) and was up early for more this AM.
More impressions on the listening side later....
jblnut
I've been watching Salon 2 prices for the last year and a half (as well as the large format JBLs like 4365/4367/M2/K2) trying to get a feel for locations, going rates etc. I wasn't expecting to see anything near my price range and it's just part of this hobby (keeping track of "on the radar" gear). A pair of Salon 2's (demos, but sold as new with warranty) popped up on Audio Classic's website last week with no price listed. With nothing to lose I emailed them to inquire and was floored by what came back - a price thousands less than the USED ones I had been tracking. This couldn't be right I thought, but hey here was the email quote in black and white.
So, time for "that talk" with my spouse. She has always been very supportive of my hobby and this time was no exception. She said yes so fast I kinda thought maybe I should have gone for the big Magicos on Agon instead
. But that would be just overkill for my room so - agreement in place - I sent the OK back to Steve at AC. A day later I get an email from him saying "wow, you got a really GREAT price on those". Turns out he was selling both a pair of Studio 2's as well as Salon 2's. Yes, he mixed up the prices and yes, he stood by the mistake and honored his quote. THAT, is an impressive individual my friends and now I get why AC has such rabid and loyal fans. I still thought "this is too good to be true" until the boxes actually appeared on a forklift last night and got loaded (one at a time, two trips) into the wagon.
I'm still in shock and awe here actually. They are by a decent margin the most I've spent on any component and my conservative side was telling me to just stick with what I have. But a recent health scare for both my wife and me has made me realize we don't live forever. And even if we live well into our 80's our hearing may not last that long. So, I decided that the price was within reach and I better start enjoying my "forever" speakers before the end gets too close.
The price came into focus again as a friend and neighbor helped me unpack. It went like this:
Friend "I'm not gonna ask how much these were but given the weight they must have been expensive"
Me "Well I didn't pay full price but the list is 22".
Friend "well 2200 is a lot and even if you paid half price you got a good deal it looks like"
Me "thousand, not hundred"
Friend ...stunned silence then "wow"
I listened until well past midnight (they are superb at low volumes as I had hoped) and was up early for more this AM.
More impressions on the listening side later....
jblnut
Excellent price and I agree--we do have limited time here on earth the older we get, and why not enjoy it with a few "forever" purchases? I am still chasing mine, but, it will happen one day. I'm reminded we need a new bed (which is years past its sell-by date) and the family room/listening room needs new furniture (which is getting quite frayed).
Enjoy 'em, and congrats!
That's the fun part--we start pulling out everything in our collection any time a new component comes to live with us.
Enjoy 'em, and congrats!
frankbooth
Super Member
I’m still waiting for the pictures
Sound Dragon
Yawns and sets his couch on fire!
This!!!
Sound Dragon
Yawns and sets his couch on fire!
OK - patience is a virtue friends. My weekend of listening was interrupted by a day in the ER yesterday. I promise a long and boring set of listening impressions very soon. You'll be begging me to shut up "enough about the Salons already!".
jblnut
Sorry bud. Hope all is well with you and yours. We can wait for pics.....
That's quite enough out of you thank you very much. All jokes aside, I hope it wasn't anything too serious.OK - patience is a virtue friends. My weekend of listening was interrupted by a day in the ER yesterday. I promise a long and boring set of listening impressions very soon. You'll be begging me to shut up "enough about the Salons already!".
jblnut
OK - patience is a virtue friends. My weekend of listening was interrupted by a day in the ER yesterday. I promise a long and boring set of listening impressions very soon. You'll be begging me to shut up "enough about the Salons already!".
jblnut
I hope you're feeling better. Congratulations on getting the Salon 2's!
jblnut
Don't Overthink It
OK - Part II : Setup
The speakers are bi-wired to the MC501's using some 12ga Monster Cable I had lying around. I cut the ends off (had some corrosion of the copper) and did everything with bare wire for now. I will go down the rabbit hole of Cutting Edge wire at some point in the future, but not now. My hands were almost shaking hooking them up. "Did I really do this?" I had to keep asking myself. "Are these really here in my living room?"
So with two very curious friends and my wife patiently waiting for some sounds to be made, I put on some music and we all listened. It was only about 10 seconds in I realized that we were dealing with speakers that had been left in a 30 degree (F) truck all day and that they were not going to sound anything close to good until they reached room temp. Disappointed I sent the friends on their way, thanked them for their time and promised a full listen once things were dialed in.
As the night went on, they did indeed open up (as they warmed) and I began to adjust their location and tuning. They have 5 treble positions (+1, +.5, 0 -.5 -1) as well as 3 positions for bass - flat, boundary (slight reduction) and contour (larger reduction). I settled with what I thought was -1 on treble and full cut (contour) on bass. I still thought they were a little bright and was worried that I'd have to get into speaker cables earlier than I had planned. But it got late and I called it a night.
The next AM I got up very early and went back down to start my day with some music. I re-checked my work and found that I had the treble on +1 (doh!) which explains the brightness. I set them down to -1 and relaxed into some early Boston. Ahh...much better. I then put the bass back up one click (boundary) and settled in.
The speakers are bi-wired to the MC501's using some 12ga Monster Cable I had lying around. I cut the ends off (had some corrosion of the copper) and did everything with bare wire for now. I will go down the rabbit hole of Cutting Edge wire at some point in the future, but not now. My hands were almost shaking hooking them up. "Did I really do this?" I had to keep asking myself. "Are these really here in my living room?"
So with two very curious friends and my wife patiently waiting for some sounds to be made, I put on some music and we all listened. It was only about 10 seconds in I realized that we were dealing with speakers that had been left in a 30 degree (F) truck all day and that they were not going to sound anything close to good until they reached room temp. Disappointed I sent the friends on their way, thanked them for their time and promised a full listen once things were dialed in.
As the night went on, they did indeed open up (as they warmed) and I began to adjust their location and tuning. They have 5 treble positions (+1, +.5, 0 -.5 -1) as well as 3 positions for bass - flat, boundary (slight reduction) and contour (larger reduction). I settled with what I thought was -1 on treble and full cut (contour) on bass. I still thought they were a little bright and was worried that I'd have to get into speaker cables earlier than I had planned. But it got late and I called it a night.
The next AM I got up very early and went back down to start my day with some music. I re-checked my work and found that I had the treble on +1 (doh!) which explains the brightness. I set them down to -1 and relaxed into some early Boston. Ahh...much better. I then put the bass back up one click (boundary) and settled in.
jblnut
Don't Overthink It
Part III - Inintial Listening
I'll get into some actual music reviews in a later post, so this will be able overall impressions.
Visually they are very slim from the listening position and don't really seem all that large (until you get a side view). They are VERY heavy, well constructed and well damped. The are absolutely beautiful to look at and have very high WAF.
And the sound ?
It's everything I had hoped for. The first thing that I noticed was the sound stage. The speakers disappear and music is just holographically presented in space. It is both wider and deeper than I had before with excellent placement of instruments and vocalists. This was a major "decision point" for me as I went back and forth trying to decide on large format JBLs (which would have given me dynamics galore) versus these. All of the efforts the Revel team went to with cabinet and crossover design paid off in spades here. They paint a superbly rich picture that adds so much to the listening experience for me.
And then we talk about bass. Oh. my. WORD. I thought I had good bass before. Many people who have heard my system had said "this is the best bass I've heard in a home system". Well I can't wait to have them back because the bar has been raised WAY up. The bottom ported omni directional outlet for the bass is genius as - even in corners - the bass doesn't get too tubby or bloated. I would challenge any "ported bass haters" to listen to these and come away anything but astounded. It's fast. It's drum tight. It's DEEEEP. I can not only hear everything the bass player is doing now, but I can hear if he's using flat wound strings. I can tell if he's using a vintage Ampeg or a Hartke 4x10. It's that kind of detail and it's amazing.
Detail - that's the word that keeps coming back to me as I listened. So many details. Recordings I knew like the back of my hand suddenly had new percussion parts I never heard before. Or another rhythm guitar part buried under a keyboard line that I could never pick out. The better the recording, the more info there was. My wife noticed it immediately as well. "These are amazing - I never heard that before" was a common line throughout the weekend.
And that beryllium tweeter...hanging out there on top just waiting to add its special contribution. Again just like with the bass I thought I had it pretty good as the JBL 044TI was a revelation when it came out. Flat to 27khz with ultra low distortion and crazy power handling - it's been a benchmark for me forever. Well the bar has been raised. Where I would listen to the 250TI and think "this speaker has a great tweeter", I listen to the Salon 2 and think "that cymbal sounds really nice". I'm not thinking about a speaker or driver any more. It's so transparent it just gets the hell out of the way and delivers the music.
Mids ? More revelations (and the main thing I wanted to improve over the 250). They are seamless, natural and totally transparent. Like Magnepan transparent only with much more dynamics. There is no emphasis on any part of the spectrum here and anything from vocals to brass to guitar gets rendered exactly as it should.
I'll stop here for now but there is much more to come. I've spent 18 months researching Revel, Kevin Voecks, the Salon line (1 and 2), recent JBLs and so much more. It's been a gift to be able to bring this dream to life and I hope you enjoy me sharing this "victory lap" with all of you. I have some detailed listening impressions of favorite recordings to come so stay tuned!
jblnut
I'll get into some actual music reviews in a later post, so this will be able overall impressions.
Visually they are very slim from the listening position and don't really seem all that large (until you get a side view). They are VERY heavy, well constructed and well damped. The are absolutely beautiful to look at and have very high WAF.
And the sound ?
It's everything I had hoped for. The first thing that I noticed was the sound stage. The speakers disappear and music is just holographically presented in space. It is both wider and deeper than I had before with excellent placement of instruments and vocalists. This was a major "decision point" for me as I went back and forth trying to decide on large format JBLs (which would have given me dynamics galore) versus these. All of the efforts the Revel team went to with cabinet and crossover design paid off in spades here. They paint a superbly rich picture that adds so much to the listening experience for me.
And then we talk about bass. Oh. my. WORD. I thought I had good bass before. Many people who have heard my system had said "this is the best bass I've heard in a home system". Well I can't wait to have them back because the bar has been raised WAY up. The bottom ported omni directional outlet for the bass is genius as - even in corners - the bass doesn't get too tubby or bloated. I would challenge any "ported bass haters" to listen to these and come away anything but astounded. It's fast. It's drum tight. It's DEEEEP. I can not only hear everything the bass player is doing now, but I can hear if he's using flat wound strings. I can tell if he's using a vintage Ampeg or a Hartke 4x10. It's that kind of detail and it's amazing.
Detail - that's the word that keeps coming back to me as I listened. So many details. Recordings I knew like the back of my hand suddenly had new percussion parts I never heard before. Or another rhythm guitar part buried under a keyboard line that I could never pick out. The better the recording, the more info there was. My wife noticed it immediately as well. "These are amazing - I never heard that before" was a common line throughout the weekend.
And that beryllium tweeter...hanging out there on top just waiting to add its special contribution. Again just like with the bass I thought I had it pretty good as the JBL 044TI was a revelation when it came out. Flat to 27khz with ultra low distortion and crazy power handling - it's been a benchmark for me forever. Well the bar has been raised. Where I would listen to the 250TI and think "this speaker has a great tweeter", I listen to the Salon 2 and think "that cymbal sounds really nice". I'm not thinking about a speaker or driver any more. It's so transparent it just gets the hell out of the way and delivers the music.
Mids ? More revelations (and the main thing I wanted to improve over the 250). They are seamless, natural and totally transparent. Like Magnepan transparent only with much more dynamics. There is no emphasis on any part of the spectrum here and anything from vocals to brass to guitar gets rendered exactly as it should.
I'll stop here for now but there is much more to come. I've spent 18 months researching Revel, Kevin Voecks, the Salon line (1 and 2), recent JBLs and so much more. It's been a gift to be able to bring this dream to life and I hope you enjoy me sharing this "victory lap" with all of you. I have some detailed listening impressions of favorite recordings to come so stay tuned!
jblnut
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