Starting on the AT-LP120 upgrades... lead tape?

[sqlsavior]

Of the brands that offer these built-in phono stages in the modern turntables, which do you know of do a better job with this? For example, does the Music Hall USB-1's preamp truly go out of the circuit when you switch it, or do the new TEACs do so?

Sorry, I don't know.

 

[mprince]

Again, that's perfectly fine; it's my personal wish that these Hanpin clones would come out of the box performing better (no warped platters, low motor noise, no broken anti-skate controls et al) because I know I'd be willing to chalk up more cheddar for a well-made TRUE SL1200 challenger that didn't include a preamp, USB feature, etc.

That would be the Pioneer PLX-1000?

 

[olddude55]

I this thread, keep it up. FWIW, I got a hands-on look at the AT-LP120 and IMO it's a better deck than the Rotel I bought in 1974.

 

[DustyOldPile]

It should be noted that I'm fairly certain that a lot of the reported sonic shortcomings of this turntable are due to the nature of the stock AT-95E cartridge. It's a $35 cartridge, folks...about as entry level for an elliptical as it gets.

There's a day and night difference on how this deck sounds with a Denon DL-300 or even a Shure V15 Type II with a EVG supposedly-Jico stylus from the auction site. The AT-95E just doesn't have the depth of soundstage.

Bass is much improved with the rubber mat. Any bass that's lacking after the rubber mat is added and the preamp is bypassed is due to the cartridge, not the deck...there's plenty of bass there with the Denon and the Shure.

Maybe after the usual AT 100 hours of break in, things will improve.

 

[AnzacSonata]

That would be the Pioneer PLX-1000?

Well, that's true, but I was referring to the AT-LP120 in particular (as one of the Hanpin clones working correctly out of the box).

 

[AnzacSonata]

It should be noted that I'm fairly certain that a lot of the reported sonic shortcomings of this turntable are due to the nature of the stock AT-95E cartridge. It's a $35 cartridge, folks...about as entry level for an elliptical as it gets.

There's a day and night difference on how this deck sounds with a Denon DL-300 or even a Shure V15 Type II with a EVG supposedly-Jico stylus from the auction site. The AT-95E just doesn't have the depth of soundstage.

Bass is much improved with the rubber mat. Any bass that's lacking after the rubber mat is added and the preamp is bypassed is due to the cartridge, not the deck...there's plenty of bass there with the Denon and the Shure.

Maybe after the usual AT 100 hours of break in, things will improve.

I'm going to have to agree with you here, Dust, regarding the 95 (though don't get too "hating" on this cart because you'll be crucified by many on here) -- I am looking forward to replacing this as soon as I have money.

As for the bass issue, that's ironically what I have a plethora of with my 95E -- bass was never a problem on any of the records I play (and I play a lot of old club music on 12-inch single, which contains a ton of bass), and that's WITH the felt mat. Where I find this cart falls seriously short is in tracking -- difficult sibilant passages or vinyl that's been cut "hot" are brutal with this elliptical, and don't get me started on the end-of-side distortion...

 

[DustyOldPile]

It's a little raspy, yes. It is very fussy about VTA and alignment. I have it sounding about as good as it can, and it still gets a little raspy on the last cut or during a difficult passage...but it's almost forgiveable. I think one of LPGear's upgrade stylii would be my first move, if I didn't already have a box full of cartridge bodies. An Empire 2000 EIII is going on it next, ordered the stylus for it. Plus it will look sharp....the black turntable, the gold cartridge, the clear plastic stylus assembly...

 

[AnzacSonata]

Good luck with whatever you choose.

 

[DustyOldPile]

Mounted an Empire 2000E III with a new LPGear replacement stylus to an old Technics headshell, aligned, balanced, adjusted and...

No more sibiliance. Sounds wonderful. You absolutely need the heavier counterweight to use this cartridge/headshell combo, and yes, it does work with the dust cover down.

 

[AnzacSonata]

Mounted an Empire 2000E III with a new LPGear replacement stylus to an old Technics headshell, aligned, balanced, adjusted and...

No more sibiliance. Sounds wonderful. You absolutely need the heavier counterweight to use this cartridge/headshell combo, and yes, it does work with the dust cover down.

So you were able to eliminate the sibilance you were getting with the 95e by going with the 2000E III? If so, that's great for you -- how much weight does the new cart take?

 

[DustyOldPile]

Empires like to track lightly. I have the 2000 EIII at 1.4 g, which is toward the upper end of it's tolerance. It seems quite happy on the AT. The Empire's impressive separation characteristics lead to a spatial and deep soundstage. It's a little bright in the midrange, but I attribute that to the newness of the stylus. We'll see after break-in...at that point I may have to consider some inductance alterations.

 

[AnzacSonata]

Empires like to track lightly. I have the 2000 EIII at 1.4 g, which is toward the upper end of it's tolerance. It seems quite happy on the AT. The Empire's impressive separation characteristics lead to a spatial and deep soundstage. It's a little bright in the midrange, but I attribute that to the newness of the stylus. We'll see after break-in...at that point I may have to consider some inductance alterations.

Well, whatever gets you to hi fi nirvana; I'm just glad you were able to achieve the sound I've been unsuccessfully trying to achieve with the 95e...

How would you compare the Empire to the AT440MLb?

 

[DustyOldPile]

Well, whatever gets you to hi fi nirvana; I'm just glad you were able to achieve the sound I've been unsuccessfully trying to achieve with the 95e...

How would you compare the Empire to the AT440MLb?

Definitely less expensive, but favorably. I never owned the MLb. I owned the MLa OCC about 10 years ago, when they were about $80. It was a nice cartridge. I have only tracked 3 albums with the Empire since getting it out of mothballs and putting a stylus on it, but I would say that it compares favorably...in some ways better, in some ways the AT gets the edge. But you can find an Empire body inexpensively enough...particularly if you get one of the lower 2000-series carts...which I believe are upgraded solely by stylus...and then springing the $36 for the LPGear stylus. Or...go whole hog and get the Vivid Line for another $40 or so. You'd still probably come under the current price of the AT.

 

[AnzacSonata]

Definitely less expensive, but favorably. I never owned the MLb. I owned the MLa OCC about 10 years ago, when they were about $80. It was a nice cartridge. I have only tracked 3 albums with the Empire since getting it out of mothballs and putting a stylus on it, but I would say that it compares favorably...in some ways better, in some ways the AT gets the edge. But you can find an Empire body inexpensively enough...particularly if you get one of the lower 2000-series carts...which I believe are upgraded solely by stylus...and then springing the $36 for the LPGear stylus. Or...go whole hog and get the Vivid Line for another $40 or so. You'd still probably come under the current price of the AT.

Does the Empire track the inner grooves without tracing distortion (provided the album in question is not already damaged)?

 

[DustyOldPile]

It surely seems to.

 

[doctor fuse]

Nice! I thought, though, that it would be more uniform and easy to add the lead tape.

It's pretty easy to add plasticine. Takes about 20 minutes, and is completely reversible.

My CEC BD-2000 turntable had audible wow & flutter (spec'd at 0.12%), but after I added plasticine to the underside of the platter, and to the inside of the plinth, w&f is gone, speed stability is dead on, and the sound is much better.

I get the plasticine for cheap at my local dollar store.

 

[DustyOldPile]

Interesting. I would think one might have trouble getting it on evenly, which is why I was leaning toward the lead tape.

 

[doctor fuse]

Interesting. I would think one might have trouble getting it on evenly, which is why I was leaning toward the lead tape.

I wouldn't add plasticine to a precious TT. But these usually have really heavy platters already.

My understanding is if you help get the platter spinning with a gentle nudge, no added strain will occur to the motor. The heavier platter will might actually make less strain on the motor once spinning, as the added weight will add inertia (I think that is the correct force?) which will make it spin more on its own than with the energy from the motor.

The only problem area will be added strain on the spindle bearing. Not sure how much a slight out-of-balance will cause uneven wear, but I don't imagine the added weight will accelerate wear - that would depend what maximum weight the bearing was designed for, and with these old TTs it could be impossible to find these specs.

My gut says this table will keep on playing for another decade at least.

 

[DustyOldPile]

Quite a few records into this experiment, I'm pleased with the results. The new LPGear stylus on the Empire 2000 E/III is really starting to open up now and tracks well. No IGD that I can detect on good records. No audible or visible wow and flutter.

My one complaint yet.... a slight motor or platter sound that goes th-th-th.....th-th-th.....th-th-th.... as the platter rotates. I can hear it in headphones, it's just below the level of typical vinyl surface noise between tracks, but audible. Anyone experience this with the AT LP120? Cures?

 

[Lavane]

Do the LP-120's have a thrust plate?