Step One In A Grand Experiment

[Mister Pig]

That looked like a mighty tasty cookie....just a saying.

OK I got the oil changed, got a haircut, and did a bit of table work done.

Cartridge is aligned, but truth be told there is a fair amount of slop in the SME cardboard alignment jig. I don't feel that one it too precise. But its a nifty little arrangement, and its easy peasy to use. Got VTF dialed in, I like that arrangement a lot. Need to do VTF when I got the table in place and some vinyl on it.

But its getting dark, and I don't think I am going to get it finished up before I have to head out for a gathering of friends. I might get it placed on my credenza to have it out of the way though. We will see.

Cheers
Mister Pig

 

[Grbluen]

I am so jealous! Never again will I buy a table that locks you into an arm. I love my Scout, but try getting a different arm on the thing. So jealous!

 

[Mister Pig]

Ok here we go, its now safely put away. Its hooked up electrically, and the vacuum line also is connected. Putting a bubble level on the platter and the base shows its level, so all adjustments are good.

This arm is a beast, I did not use any lead shot to level it. If it was any heavier I would have to open it up and counterweight it the other direction.

Just need to make final connections then fine tune VTA. A project for tomorrow.

Cheers
Mister Pig

 

[4-2-7]

This arm is a beast, I did not use any lead shot to level it. If it was any heavier I would have to open it up and counterweight it the other direction.

I don't know how that can be, I have cosmos boards that are heavier with that arm and still need shot added to that corner.

Are your feet screwed in and the sub chassis resting on them?
If so that's not right as it needs to float and have good clearance.

Did you mess with the 4 spring screws on the underside?

 

[4-2-7]

You can print these out and they always match up to what the SME is.

Enjoy the music . com

 

[Mister Pig]

I don't know how that can be, I have cosmos boards that are heavier with that arm and still need shot added to that corner.

Are your feet screwed in and the sub chassis resting on them?
If so that's not right as it needs to float and have good clearance.

Did you mess with the 4 spring screws on the underside?

Dunno what to say on that one. When I set the table up I backed the feet all the way out and then turned them in a thread or so. I then dialed in the ones that were needed to level the plinth, which was very small adjustments. I just checked the suspension and it has a ton of travel, and it moves in only in a vertical range, very nice bounce really.

Maybe its because this table was originally designed with the lighter aluminum arm board, perhaps the spring rates were different in that corner than other ones. This table was cut with a SME slot, so perhaps there is a counterweight underneath the plinth to offset a SME IV or V arm. The weights of the arm are very close, as the V is 720 grams, a 309 is 714 grams, and a IV is 700 grams. Or perhaps something was done with the spring rates to optimize it for a SME arm and not use the lead shot. I really have no idea...I do seem to recall the previous owner also had a V on this table.

What I do know is that the platter is level, the plinth is level, and the suspension bounces up and down with no side to side movement.

Cheers
Mister Pig

 

[4-2-7]

What I do know is that the platter is level, the plinth is level, and the suspension bounces up and down with no side to side movement.

Sounds good

I set the table up I backed the feet all the way out and then turned them in a thread or so. I then dialed in the ones that were needed to level the plinth, which was very small adjustments. I just checked the suspension and it has a ton of travel, and it moves in only in a vertical range, very nice bounce really.

that's how you do it.

You might also have the lead slugs in the back, these here.

 

[Mister Pig]

So I hooked it up to the Esoteric phono stage and roughed in VTA. Playing some Alex Degrassi at the moment...

Cheers
Mister Pig

 

[Nashou66]

Guess we have to wait till he stops listening or wakes up to read his opinions ?

Athanasios

 

[bimasta]

I went and looked up an AT666 thinking it some unobtainable top tier cart! That AT must be a "giant killer".

I had the 666 when it was new. It always lost suction before the record ended. But no matter how bad the edge-warp may be, it's much flatter towards the center, so hold-down isn't as critical.

Eventually I sold it to a guy who had a business digitizing old records. He also thought the 666 would be a giant-killer. When he noticed the loss of vacuum he complained. LOUDLY. I mean vicious, words like 'fraud', 'rip off' and worse, almost bringing my mother into it. I explained the edge vs center thing and asked him to try it again.

He wrote back saying Yes, it's fine. It took real honesty to climb down from his earlier outrage — pride alone would compel me only to 'semi-climb-down' — "Well you might be kinda sorta a little right..."

Obviously holding vacuum to the end is better, but maybe can only be done with continuous suction, not just one suck at the start (let the jokes fly) but that probably requires it be built-in, a dedicated vacuum TT.

I may have mentioned experimenting with a platterless turntable,

I don't recall the mention. Was it a platterless design, e.g. the short-lived Meitner, or an improv? I tried it on Thorens and Linn, using only the inner platter, somewhat platterless but still quite a bit of support under the LP. True platterless would need a minimal diameter. Just curious.

BTW: If anyone remembers, the periphery clamp was a cheap and available accessory back in the '60–70s. It wasn't a beautifully machined ring relying on weight — it used short leaf-springs to grip the platter rim: push it down, and it held. Never had one so I don't know how effective it was, but wouldn't seem to work at all on some platters, e.g. shallow ones or sloping sides. But it was cheap.

 

[mkane]

At least he's listening to something good. Windham Hill recordings are some of the best IMO. Grab em' while you can

 

[Pio1980]

I had the 666 when it was new. It always lost suction before the record ended. But no matter how bad the edge-warp may be, it's much flatter towards the center, so hold-down isn't as critical.

Eventually I sold it to a guy who had a business digitizing old records. He also thought the 666 would be a giant-killer. When he noticed the loss of vacuum he complained. LOUDLY. I mean vicious, words like 'fraud', 'rip off' and worse, almost bringing my mother into it. I explained the edge vs center thing and asked him to try it again.

He wrote back saying Yes, it's fine. It took real honesty to climb down from his earlier outrage — pride alone would compel me only to 'semi-climb-down' — "Well you might be kinda sorta a little right..."

Obviously holding vacuum to the end is better, but maybe can only be done with continuous suction, not just one suck at the start (let the jokes fly) but that probably requires it be built-in, a dedicated vacuum TT.

I don't recall the mention. Was it a platterless design, e.g. the short-lived Meitner, or an improv? I tried it on Thorens and Linn, using only the inner platter, somewhat platterless but still quite a bit of support under the LP. True platterless would need a minimal diameter. Just curious.

BTW: If anyone remembers, the periphery clamp was a cheap and available accessory back in the '60–70s. It wasn't a beautifully machined ring relying on weight — it used short leaf-springs to grip the platter rim: push it down, and it held. Never had one so I don't know how effective it was, but wouldn't seem to work at all on some platters, e.g. shallow ones or sloping sides. But it was cheap.

My 666 never totally lost vacuum hold down.

Re, platterless experiment. I used a label sized disc under the record with the weight on top on an HK T60 to dupe the Meitner. "Fake but fun", as Zilch said of the JBL L100.

 

[Mister Pig]

Guess we have to wait till he stops listening or wakes up to read his opinions ?

Athanasios

Too early to tell and need to listen to the SP 10 as a comparison to see which I prefer.

Cheers
Mister Pig

 

[jgordon]

Cartridge is aligned, but truth be told there is a fair amount of slop in the SME cardboard alignment jig. I don't feel that one it too precise. But its a nifty little arrangement, and its easy peasy to use. Got VTF dialed in, I like that arrangement a lot. Need to do VTF when I got the table in place and some vinyl on it.

I used the SME gauge to rough it in, and then got it right with a feickert. I was skeptical as well, but truth be told, on two carts on two tables with the SME, the little cardboard got it about 96% there. The Feickert was nice for that last 4% and the accompanying peace of mind, but it would have been fine without it.

Any time you'd like, I'll trade you the IV that I beat you to for your V. It would look much nicer on your table...

 

[fiddlefye]

Too early to tell and need to listen to the SP 10 as a comparison to see which I prefer.

Cheers
Mister Pig

If you're talking comparisons then it sounds like you're at least really in the territory at last.

 

[Ken Boyd]

With tables so high up on the tier I would imagine comparisons will be difficult as they will most likely sound more alike than different.

 

[ateal]

Ok here we go, its now safely put away. Its hooked up electrically, and the vacuum line also is connected. Putting a bubble level on the platter and the base shows its level, so all adjustments are good.

This arm is a beast, I did not use any lead shot to level it. If it was any heavier I would have to open it up and counterweight it the other direction.

Just need to make final connections then fine tune VTA. A project for tomorrow.
View attachment 1334175
Cheers
Mister Pig

I can easily see the Denon being let go, surplus to requirements. That would leave you with a great DD and great suspended belt drive. Not a bad two deck situation to have and similar to someone else I know LOL.

Best of both worlds.

 

[Mister Pig]

So I have spent the last couple of evenings listening to a bit of acoustic music casually, but not really critically listening to this table.

I get up in the mornings about 5 AM and have a couple cups of coffee, listen to some guitar or piano music, and read the news and AK to get ready for the day.

This morning after my first cup I decided to put on Tracy Champans first album and give a couple of my favorite tracks a spin, I have to keep the volume within sane levels as the rest of the house is asleep, but with these intimately recorded songs its not hard to do.

So I sit back in my listening sofa, coffee in hand and give it a go. I then take the same tracks and put it on the SP 10/Riggle/ZYX 4D combo. The comparisons come out very well for the Sota. I find the lower mids to be a bit richer and more vivid. Bass extension also looks to be superior, but not enough listening done to confirm this. Low level detail is very close between the two tables, but the Sota/SME might have the edge in this category. There is a difference in the manner which the music flows, and this is something I noticed when I had my Morin modified AR XA. There is an ease of presentation with the belt drive table that is different than the big DD tables, or my idlers.

With all that being said, the sound is more what I would describe on being the same continuum. So many aspects of the music presentation are similar between the two tables, that you can say they get the majority of the music right and it becomes more of the manner of presentation and what you prefer. Now I have not done enough listening to categorically say I prefer one over the other. But at this point I would say this table acquits itself very well. I indeed might get back to two tables, but the decision may come down to which one do I keep between the SP 10 MK II and the Denon DP 75, and that table might go into the second slot as my casual listening table. Of course this is all with the caveat of more listening to be done. Anything I say in this post is non-binding, and you should consult your analogist to get professional advice.

Now its time to get ready for work.

Cheers
Mister Pig

 

[Nashou66]

Good start so far !!!!

 

[Frank Sol]

There is an ease of presentation with the belt drive table that is different than the big DD tables, or my idlers.

I agree in general... that's been my experience over the years