Supplier of pinch rollers for Pioneer CT-F1250
- Thread starter steveUK
- Start date
dhnash
Super Member
Rich, I thought about suggesting Terry but the OP is located in the UK and the shipping charges could make the overall cost too expensive. I thought there was someone doing the same type of work over closer to him that would be another option for him. This might be Svalander Audio AB in Sweden.
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steveUK
Active Member
Thanks guys. Overseas shipping is 'overseas shipping', it doesn't make that much difference cost wise if it's the US or Sweden, if it has to be done, it has to be done. Plus, looking at Terry's web site he seems to be the real deal. I just googled Svalander Audio AB and it's all in Swedish. Unless something else comes up I'll probably go with Terry.
In general terms though, I'm surprised that someone has not started to make complete pinch rollers, not 'just' the (great) re-tiring service that Terry offers. I realise that it's not a mass market, but then so are lots of other things that people DO make parts for. It would even better if someone made the complete pinch roller assemblies including the swing arm so that you didn't have to hammer that pin out, which I have yet to do..
In general terms though, I'm surprised that someone has not started to make complete pinch rollers, not 'just' the (great) re-tiring service that Terry offers. I realise that it's not a mass market, but then so are lots of other things that people DO make parts for. It would even better if someone made the complete pinch roller assemblies including the swing arm so that you didn't have to hammer that pin out, which I have yet to do..
steveUK
Active Member
It's ok, I've figured it out now. You have to compress those other, lower swing arms as far as they will go.
I've also managed to get 'new rubber' by gliding the rubber part of the pinch roller assemblies over a sheet of fine wet and dry paper at at oblique angle. That rotates the pinch roller wheel and at the same time skims the shiny rubber surface to expose new rubber. I was very careful and the results are very flat with a nice, grippy new rubber surface. We'll see..
I've also managed to get 'new rubber' by gliding the rubber part of the pinch roller assemblies over a sheet of fine wet and dry paper at at oblique angle. That rotates the pinch roller wheel and at the same time skims the shiny rubber surface to expose new rubber. I was very careful and the results are very flat with a nice, grippy new rubber surface. We'll see..
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Cody Shive
New Member
Hi. It looks like Terry's Rubber Rollers is offline since June 11th, 2021. I'm looking to replace the two pinch rollers on my CT-F950 and CT-F1250 decks. However, as many of you know, they're not easy to find. The dimensions of these on my 950 are as follows: 8.2mm X 9.9mm (height X diameter). The shaft hole is 2mm. I haven't pulled the ones on my 1250, but the mechanism on the 900/950/1250 appears to be identical. It would be great if anyone can confirm my measurements, as the dimensions aren't listed in the service manual.
See the picture attached. I was able to mount the pinch rollers on my drill press to ensure a perfect turn. I used a strip of emery paper and **lightly** applied it to the spinning roller just enough to take the sheen off of the roller. Then, I cleaned the roller with denatured alcohol. You can see the difference (the one on the left was turned, the one on the right hadn't been turned yet).
The problem I'm trying to solve is an intermittent issue with the tape starting to crease on the feed roller. That results in what other folks characterize as the tape being "eaten" by the deck. The symptom manifests by a "crinkling" sound that starts, and if you pull the tape, you'll see that the tape has been turned into a strand (as if it were stretched). I have a junk tape (unfortunately, it's a Maxell MX110 that is particularly susceptible to the issue) which I've now carved down to the remaining good tape.
After re-surfacing the rollers, I've been testing with a thinner tape (120m LN Type1); and so far, so good. But, I would like advice, or if Terry goes back on-line, I'd like to buy a batch of these.
See the picture attached. I was able to mount the pinch rollers on my drill press to ensure a perfect turn. I used a strip of emery paper and **lightly** applied it to the spinning roller just enough to take the sheen off of the roller. Then, I cleaned the roller with denatured alcohol. You can see the difference (the one on the left was turned, the one on the right hadn't been turned yet).
The problem I'm trying to solve is an intermittent issue with the tape starting to crease on the feed roller. That results in what other folks characterize as the tape being "eaten" by the deck. The symptom manifests by a "crinkling" sound that starts, and if you pull the tape, you'll see that the tape has been turned into a strand (as if it were stretched). I have a junk tape (unfortunately, it's a Maxell MX110 that is particularly susceptible to the issue) which I've now carved down to the remaining good tape.
After re-surfacing the rollers, I've been testing with a thinner tape (120m LN Type1); and so far, so good. But, I would like advice, or if Terry goes back on-line, I'd like to buy a batch of these.
dhnash
Super Member
We all hope that Terry recovers from COVID-19 soon. If he does, he should be able to rebuild your pinch rollers but you will need to check with him to see if he has any others available for sale.
Cody Shive
New Member
Yes, I hope everyone stays safe in these times and if affected that they have a speedy recovery.
I did want to make a correction to my last post. I said denatured alcohol, when I meant to say 99% isopropyl alcohol. Also, I went back and measured the pinch rollers on my 1250, and they are exactly the same. So, I'm curious why folks are saying that they are different sizes? I have the service manuals. In my 1250 manual, they list one pinch roller assembly (RXB-257). It's used for both sides, with the feed side having a tape guide (RNK-348) added. I'll attach a picture from the service manual.
Finally, reporting on the pinch rollers I turned and cleaned. So far, I've run a 120m tape on repeat in the 950 for two days (stopped it overnight), and I haven't seen any issues.
I did want to make a correction to my last post. I said denatured alcohol, when I meant to say 99% isopropyl alcohol. Also, I went back and measured the pinch rollers on my 1250, and they are exactly the same. So, I'm curious why folks are saying that they are different sizes? I have the service manuals. In my 1250 manual, they list one pinch roller assembly (RXB-257). It's used for both sides, with the feed side having a tape guide (RNK-348) added. I'll attach a picture from the service manual.
Finally, reporting on the pinch rollers I turned and cleaned. So far, I've run a 120m tape on repeat in the 950 for two days (stopped it overnight), and I haven't seen any issues.
Attachments
Bench testing a CT-F1250 right now. The left roller is smaller than the right. Putting in a larger diameter on the left will cause it to rub on reference number 9 tape guide. Looking at the service manual exploded view it appears they forgot the part number on the right assembly nor is it in the parts list. It was common to have a service bulletin issued when this happened to note the error instead or reprinting the entire manual. I was a Pioneer Authorized Service Center, but not when these were made, so no bulletins for it on file. Measuring the rollers in place the left is approx. 8mm wide x 9mm, Right is approx. 8mm wide x 11mm and the shaft holes both look like 2mm. For grins I checked the CT-F1050 manual shows differing part number for left/right.
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Cody Shive
New Member
Nope, they are the same part number (pinch roller arm assembly). The difference is the left has a guide that's screwed to the pinch roller assembly. See my comparison among the three models -- 900/950/1250 (pdf attached). I have and service all these. I talked with a service tech who also does these and he was working on them in the 80s. Confirmed what I figured out -- both rollers are part of an assembly, and are the same size (small). You can get away with a larger one on the right; but if you want to remain true to the restoration, get the smaller (~9mm) for both.
Here is photo of the CT-F1250 pinch rollers. The right (take up) side is obviously larger. Not sure why the other models get grouped together with the 1250 since the part numbers for the pinch Assy. are different in them. With the internet it seems 1 person gets it wrong from somewhere and the misinformation spreads from there then some online vendors pick up on it compounding the error.
Another clue that the sizes are different is the adjustment procedure on service manual page 32 9-1. The larger right side roller gets 360-440 grams of force while the smaller right roller gets 90-130 grams. Using a small roller on the right with that much force will cause wow and flutter increase and can even drive the tape out of the path damaging it.
Here is a good read on it.
https://www.tapeheads.net/showthread.php?t=64269
Another clue that the sizes are different is the adjustment procedure on service manual page 32 9-1. The larger right side roller gets 360-440 grams of force while the smaller right roller gets 90-130 grams. Using a small roller on the right with that much force will cause wow and flutter increase and can even drive the tape out of the path damaging it.
Here is a good read on it.
https://www.tapeheads.net/showthread.php?t=64269
Attachments
Cody Shive
New Member
I know, and it's wrong about the size. The force on the pinch roller isn't an indication of size. Look at the parts diagram for the CT-F1250. You have one pinch roller assembly -- RXB-257. See the PDF I included comparing all three models. In all three models, there is a single part number for the pinch roller assembly. There is a separate part number for the guide that's attached to the left pinch roller.
Now, there's nothing saying you can't use a larger pinch roller for the right side, but the original deck never had two sizes in Production. Aftermarket and repair centers may have used a larger size, but that's not spec.
Now, there's nothing saying you can't use a larger pinch roller for the right side, but the original deck never had two sizes in Production. Aftermarket and repair centers may have used a larger size, but that's not spec.
The 1250 Service manual exploded view doesn't show a location number for the right pinch assy. at all.
It is an incorrect assumption that the 1250 must be the same because they only list the left one in the manual. The answer lies in that the 1250 service manual had an error by missing the location number and associated part number for the larger right side pinch roller assy. (the 900/950 manuals specifically show both numbers, the 1050 too) People would be amazed at the stack of service data corrections I have from Pioneer when we were a factory authorized service center for them. It was sooooooo common to have errors in manuals and be corrected after the paper manual was printed.
Still the best proof is the posted photo of the 1250's rollers I just worked on. Customer having it serviced for the first time ever.
It is an incorrect assumption that the 1250 must be the same because they only list the left one in the manual. The answer lies in that the 1250 service manual had an error by missing the location number and associated part number for the larger right side pinch roller assy. (the 900/950 manuals specifically show both numbers, the 1050 too) People would be amazed at the stack of service data corrections I have from Pioneer when we were a factory authorized service center for them. It was sooooooo common to have errors in manuals and be corrected after the paper manual was printed.
Still the best proof is the posted photo of the 1250's rollers I just worked on. Customer having it serviced for the first time ever.
Cody Shive
New Member
And my CT-F1250 that I've had from when I sold them in the late 70s has two pinch rollers that are the same. So, given that we don't agree, do you have a service bulletin that announced the multiple part numbers? I'd really be interested to see if Pioneer issued some kind of correction. But so far, all the decks I've serviced have come in with the same sized pinch rollers. When necessary to replace them, I either have the left one rebuilt or order one from Athan and the right one replaced with a larger one from a different manufacturer.
