Tape Biasing - Help Needed
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KentTeffeteller
Gimpus Stereophilus!
Emtec SM 468 is a low print mastering tape. It is lower output than the new super tapes. What kind of machine do you own? That will have a lot to do with your ability to fully make use of super tapes like the ATR, the SM 900, the old Quantegy GP9 and similar. Which are aimed at recording studio machines as a rule. Emtec 468 is an old formula from Agfa.
Geoff777
Active Member
3db up is not drastic - but just audible
Yes it means it is fractionally underbiased - or the eq circuits are a little out
Most likely a bias thing.
Sometimes a little extra at the top helps when there is a lot of treble information as that tends to 'Bias' the sound itself a little - unless you
have Dolby HX circiuits in there as well
Yes it means it is fractionally underbiased - or the eq circuits are a little out
Most likely a bias thing.
Sometimes a little extra at the top helps when there is a lot of treble information as that tends to 'Bias' the sound itself a little - unless you
have Dolby HX circiuits in there as well
ThreeOcean
New Member
Now i know what is BIAS in tape
jobimdream
Member
"Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy" - Beethoven
that is almost as awesome as this thread. you guys shred
that is almost as awesome as this thread. you guys shred
plazmaplanna
Active Member
My tapes are mostly Type II High Bias Cassettes
I am Running a 3-head Denon and try to keep the sound level around +1 to +3 output
I just recorded a couple songs though and they do not have enough bass for me.
This tape recorder also has the MPX filter as mentioned earlier...should i keep that on? (haven't turned any filters on...but am gonna try it with Dolby C-NR and MPX)
And with that on does that make Bias adjustment no longer relevant?
I believe i need to turn the bias up..(have been keeping it slightly above 0 but I read that increasing it will increase bass but decrease treble....) =/
not sure...tried to read this all and there are a lot of variables to consider...i don't have a professional measuring instrument...just the digital readout and my ears :scratch2:
I am Running a 3-head Denon and try to keep the sound level around +1 to +3 output
I just recorded a couple songs though and they do not have enough bass for me.
This tape recorder also has the MPX filter as mentioned earlier...should i keep that on? (haven't turned any filters on...but am gonna try it with Dolby C-NR and MPX)
And with that on does that make Bias adjustment no longer relevant?
I believe i need to turn the bias up..(have been keeping it slightly above 0 but I read that increasing it will increase bass but decrease treble....) =/
not sure...tried to read this all and there are a lot of variables to consider...i don't have a professional measuring instrument...just the digital readout and my ears :scratch2:
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MexicoMiike
Active Member
Biasing a consumer deck is decidedly user-unfriendly other than with whatever bias switch might be available and which will probably not ACCURATELY adjust the bias for whatever tape you are using though maybe better than nothing. Pro (studio) decks were specifically designed for easy bias adjustment and you can set the bias for different tapes on an old Ampex 351, for example, in about 30 seconds or less per channel using the record preamp's VU meter and a signal generator.
On a consumer deck doing it by ear with pink noise (NOT white noise) is good enough, realizing of course, that YOUR ear and the next guy's ear will be different and come up with a different bias setting. If it's your machine and will never play tapes made by others, then it doesn't matter much. But proper biasing is to ensure that any tape made by any studio would (should) play back correctly and at the proper volume on any other studio's machines.
On a consumer deck doing it by ear with pink noise (NOT white noise) is good enough, realizing of course, that YOUR ear and the next guy's ear will be different and come up with a different bias setting. If it's your machine and will never play tapes made by others, then it doesn't matter much. But proper biasing is to ensure that any tape made by any studio would (should) play back correctly and at the proper volume on any other studio's machines.
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Geoff777
Active Member
2 main points - Non Pro Tape machines will always compromise more and so manual Bias adjustment will very according to the user - accuracy is very difficult. My ears used to be very good and I could tune things very well by ear. I used a mixture of checks including Pink and White noise - and yes Music itself will have an effect as lots of high frequency material in a recording can actually have a small 'Biasing' effect itself which is where the Domestic system HX Pro helped as it would automatically adjust according to the music HF content
Genuine Chrome tapes were a little bass light generally, unlike the cobalt doped Chrome setting tapes, But Chrome had superior High Frequency saturation levels over Ferric - which was generally better in the bass (hence the stab at combining them in the form of Ferrichrome)
So - plazmaplanna - if you are using pure Chrome why not try the likes of TDK SA or Maxell UDXL11 if they are still around.
I have not used Tape to record now for a lot of years.
Genuine Chrome tapes were a little bass light generally, unlike the cobalt doped Chrome setting tapes, But Chrome had superior High Frequency saturation levels over Ferric - which was generally better in the bass (hence the stab at combining them in the form of Ferrichrome)
So - plazmaplanna - if you are using pure Chrome why not try the likes of TDK SA or Maxell UDXL11 if they are still around.
I have not used Tape to record now for a lot of years.
jturntable
New Member
Since I couldnt comrehend the practical steps of biasing , I resorted for biasing using a white noise signal ,and then calibrating the input gain,and finally repeating the steps because it is a procedure that depends totally on hearing. I do not have specialized equipment measure distortion and such, but I got excellent results and couldnt tell source from tape,and even asked a couple of friends if tthey could hear a differnce. Very primitive ,but worked at least to my ears. What do you think ?
vladtm
New Member
Still one question reamins, with the record EQ pots at minimum, i cannot do the biasing using the peak-drop method, as when i turn the bias pots to minimum, the 10kz response increases and increases until i hit the limit of the pot.
Maybe i got it wrong but i read that using 10khz to overbias, when going down, frequency increases up to a peak and then decreases when i turn the pot to minimum.
Im my case it only decreases if i turn the pot to the maximum until it gets to 0 with the bias pot to maximum .
I tried this on both speeds on multiple tapes, no joy. When turning the bias pot to minimum, the 10kz signal remains high.
Maybe i got it wrong but i read that using 10khz to overbias, when going down, frequency increases up to a peak and then decreases when i turn the pot to minimum.
Im my case it only decreases if i turn the pot to the maximum until it gets to 0 with the bias pot to maximum .
I tried this on both speeds on multiple tapes, no joy. When turning the bias pot to minimum, the 10kz signal remains high.
Hi Vladtm,
I have aligned my Revox B77/A700 machines to Maxell XLI tapes. As this formulation is not listed in the spec in the manual, some adjustments were not possible. The HF Record Eq was usually the culprit. As I know the HF response is Bias dependent, if the set up spec did not work first off, I would centralise the HF Eq pots before doing setup procedure again. This at least gives you the chance that the Eq pots will be in range when you get to the HF compensation stage of the adjustments. Since I have applied this initial step, so far so good. The HF adjustment has been achieved without the pots running into the end stops.
Bear in mind that the level at 1Khz is still going to be the reference point for level. For a first time setup on an unknown tape formulation, I would go through it once roughly to get the settings in the right ball park followed by another run through for accuracy.
Also without wanting to state the obvious, the mechanical setup of the machine needs to be verified before the electronic alignment is considered. Without mechanical integrity the electronic alignment is a pointless exercise. A 2 head machine will allow some liberties with the end result being lost machine to machine compatibility. A 3 head machine leaves no room for errors at all.
GPS16
I have aligned my Revox B77/A700 machines to Maxell XLI tapes. As this formulation is not listed in the spec in the manual, some adjustments were not possible. The HF Record Eq was usually the culprit. As I know the HF response is Bias dependent, if the set up spec did not work first off, I would centralise the HF Eq pots before doing setup procedure again. This at least gives you the chance that the Eq pots will be in range when you get to the HF compensation stage of the adjustments. Since I have applied this initial step, so far so good. The HF adjustment has been achieved without the pots running into the end stops.
Bear in mind that the level at 1Khz is still going to be the reference point for level. For a first time setup on an unknown tape formulation, I would go through it once roughly to get the settings in the right ball park followed by another run through for accuracy.
Also without wanting to state the obvious, the mechanical setup of the machine needs to be verified before the electronic alignment is considered. Without mechanical integrity the electronic alignment is a pointless exercise. A 2 head machine will allow some liberties with the end result being lost machine to machine compatibility. A 3 head machine leaves no room for errors at all.
GPS16
smurfer77
Super Member
Thanks. I'm new to tape and found the pdf quite informative. Other posts are had not quite spelled out the threshold for magnetizing the particles clearly for me and thus how the bias is helping.
KentTeffeteller
Gimpus Stereophilus!
They don't for older consumer recorders which can barely bias the likes of Scotch Dynarange or Maxell UD at best. Today's tapes demand more than Maxell XL1 at that bias wise. Simple fact of life. Many an older Akai, Sony and their ilk have those limitations into the late 1960's. A Crown or a ReVox are exempt and the studio machines.
cferry1
Active Member
dr*audio's reply above Jan. 6, 2010 - I believe is a a very good description of tape deck tape biasing and adjustment !
If the bias signal is too low, the highs will be accentuated and you will get higher distortion. The method of adjusting the bias is to record a 1KHz tone and a 10KHz tone at -20dB (so you will not saturate the tape and lose highs) and adjust the bias so that they are equal on playback.
This explanation is inaccurate. Too much bias current does tend to increase the erasure of short wavelengths because the ratio of audio and bias is too great in favor of the bias signal, but the short wavelengths are also driven into the coating and away from the surface of the tape. That's why the high frequencies decrease. Too little bias brings the short wavelengths and long wavelengths to the surface, but there is not enough depth to the long wavelengths to provide output and too little force to activate more particles. That is the cause of the distortion. Bias is set by selecting a frequency, often recommended by the tape manufacturer, and increasing the bias current until the output at the operating level peaks and decreases by the recommended amount. The data sheet for the tape will display the trade-offs in terms of distortion and MOL/SOL. Then the record EQ is altered to guarantee flat frequency response at a level 20 dB below the operating level. Bias is the method to control output and distortion. Although it is also a factor in terms of frequency response, the correct technical method to ensure flat frequency response is record EQ.
This explanation is inaccurate. Too much bias current does tend to increase the erasure of short wavelengths because the ratio of audio and bias is too great in favor of the bias signal, but the short wavelengths are also driven into the coating and away from the surface of the tape. That's why the high frequencies decrease. Too little bias brings the short wavelengths and long wavelengths to the surface, but there is not enough depth to the long wavelengths to provide output and too little force to activate more particles. That is the cause of the distortion. Bias is set by selecting a frequency, often recommended by the tape manufacturer, and increasing the bias current until the output at the operating level peaks and decreases by the recommended amount. The data sheet for the tape will display the trade-offs in terms of distortion and MOL/SOL. Then the record EQ is altered to guarantee flat frequency response at a level 20 dB below the operating level. Bias is the method to control output and distortion. Although it is also a factor in terms of frequency response, the correct technical method to ensure flat frequency response is record EQ.
Artie
Super Member
I hope no one minds if I throw my 2-cents worth in here. The explanation of tape bias always seems to get too technical. It really isn't.
Anyone remember the old days, in science class, where you'd sprinkle iron filings on a piece of paper. Hold it over a magnet. Then tap on the paper. The iron filings would align themselves with the magnetic lines of force. You could actually "see" them. (The lines of force.)
If we apply this analogy to tape bias, the paper is the polyester backing of the tape. The iron filings are the magnetic coating of the polyester. The magnet is the recording head. The magnetism is the audio signal. Which brings us to the "tapping" on the paper. That's the bias. You excite the medium so the magnetic particles "dance" to the music. Tap too hard, and you scramble everything. Tap too light, weak signal.
Now, move the paper away from the magnet, and tap again. You've "erased" the signal. The bias is the same signal used to erase, but lighter.
Like I said. My 2-cents worth.
Anyone remember the old days, in science class, where you'd sprinkle iron filings on a piece of paper. Hold it over a magnet. Then tap on the paper. The iron filings would align themselves with the magnetic lines of force. You could actually "see" them. (The lines of force.)
If we apply this analogy to tape bias, the paper is the polyester backing of the tape. The iron filings are the magnetic coating of the polyester. The magnet is the recording head. The magnetism is the audio signal. Which brings us to the "tapping" on the paper. That's the bias. You excite the medium so the magnetic particles "dance" to the music. Tap too hard, and you scramble everything. Tap too light, weak signal.
Now, move the paper away from the magnet, and tap again. You've "erased" the signal. The bias is the same signal used to erase, but lighter.
Like I said. My 2-cents worth.
allanmatters
Active Member
I found it . It was one of the potentiometer s . I adjusted them accordingly (decreased it , mostly made them equal as one of them was more ) and the faint electric sound has gone . It's slightly present like 1 ℅ ,only occurs at very harsh instrumental effects like example I was playing a Fleetwood Mac track it was more occasional there put not as much present as in before I had adjusted the potentiometer s . So far so good .feels 98% right . I don't mind the extra 2%
The deck sounds excellent with the stock super aurex head .
Took some pics if it could help any one in the future
Thank you to all who have helped me .
Appreciate it . I love audiokarma!
The deck sounds excellent with the stock super aurex head .
Took some pics if it could help any one in the future
Thank you to all who have helped me .
Appreciate it . I love audiokarma!
Attachments
Recently I have become very interested in recording a lot of my vinyl collection so as to thin it out in order to sell and trade for more "source". I've tried to absorb the information on this thread that members have carefully explained — thanks to all! I'm not sure I have mastered and understood all off what has been explained. If not, I am assuming it's about my tardy brain, not the instruction here.
Anyway, I thought I'd add these outtakes of an owners' manual for anyone who may have a machine that is something like my A&D (Akai) GX-Z9100EV. The actual machines in question here are the GX-75 and GX- 95 models, but the calibration protocol is the same as my GX-Z9100.
You will notice that the centered "detent" setting for calibrations is the default for 'Normal', CrO2 and metal tapes. But (at least as far as I understand) the manufactures are saying that fine tuning the bias for individual tapes can improve the recording. This is achieved by activating a tone generator inside the machine. In accordance with this adjustment, a test run of the source must follow in order to balance the signal level with the the bias readout. (See the graphic) . I am even somewhat confused by these instructions, but here is what I do — in a nutshell.
I engage the CAL switch for the bias adjustment. Then I peak out the bias bar display until I hit the red zone. After that, I disengage the internal tone generator and play something from my source. I adjust my signal level to match the bar readout on the bias display.
One has to remember to rewind the tape to get the setup recording cancelled. And, you have to remember to cancel the tone generator. (Don't trust yourself to do this after indulging in your favorite brain food!)
I dunno if I am really doing exactly the right thing. And it's sorda-kinda a pain in the ass to do this procedure ... as opposed to just chucking in a tape,
adjusting the signal level and letting it rip. But, I get some quite amazing recordings. Non audio-heads never guess they are listening to dinosaur technology! And ... it's ANALOGUE!!
(BTW: this machine has been thoroughly checked out and gone over by an old school technician — former Sansui engineer. Any fault is mine)))
Anyway, I thought I'd add these outtakes of an owners' manual for anyone who may have a machine that is something like my A&D (Akai) GX-Z9100EV. The actual machines in question here are the GX-75 and GX- 95 models, but the calibration protocol is the same as my GX-Z9100.
You will notice that the centered "detent" setting for calibrations is the default for 'Normal', CrO2 and metal tapes. But (at least as far as I understand) the manufactures are saying that fine tuning the bias for individual tapes can improve the recording. This is achieved by activating a tone generator inside the machine. In accordance with this adjustment, a test run of the source must follow in order to balance the signal level with the the bias readout. (See the graphic) . I am even somewhat confused by these instructions, but here is what I do — in a nutshell.
I engage the CAL switch for the bias adjustment. Then I peak out the bias bar display until I hit the red zone. After that, I disengage the internal tone generator and play something from my source. I adjust my signal level to match the bar readout on the bias display.
One has to remember to rewind the tape to get the setup recording cancelled. And, you have to remember to cancel the tone generator. (Don't trust yourself to do this after indulging in your favorite brain food!)
I dunno if I am really doing exactly the right thing. And it's sorda-kinda a pain in the ass to do this procedure ... as opposed to just chucking in a tape,
adjusting the signal level and letting it rip. But, I get some quite amazing recordings. Non audio-heads never guess they are listening to dinosaur technology! And ... it's ANALOGUE!!
(BTW: this machine has been thoroughly checked out and gone over by an old school technician — former Sansui engineer. Any fault is mine
)))
