Teach me about the pros/cons of a dedicated Preamp and power amp over an integrated

I'm in no rush to buy anything, and am just getting an idea of what I should be looking for. Do you have any recommendations for something with up to maybe 200 wpc in the used realm of maybe $500 or less?
There are many good choices depending upon what you find on the used market. I've favored Nelson Pass designed Adcom amps for their value. You have to smile at his speculation as to how they were designated GFA. :)

I've owned various NAD products which also are good performers. OTOH, current Crown switchers are pretty decent and great values for the money. I used an XLS-1500 for a couple of years in the garage system. Very smooth sounding with nice midrange. Unfortunately, the top end lacks extension. Not objectionable, but harmonics just hit a brick wall and die. They also include both high and low pass crossovers for bi-amping or subwoofer duty. You can usually pick up one for under $300 with 300 W/channel @ 8 ohms.
 
There are many good choices depending upon what you find on the used market. I've favored Nelson Pass designed Adcom amps for their value. You have to smile at his speculation as to how they were designated GFA. :)

I've owned various NAD products which also are good performers. OTOH, current Crown switchers are pretty decent and great values for the money. I used an XLS-1500 for a couple of years in the garage system. Very smooth sounding with nice midrange. Unfortunately, the top end lacks extension. Not objectionable, but harmonics just hit a brick wall and die. They also include both high and low pass crossovers for bi-amping or subwoofer duty. You can usually pick up one for under $300 with 300 W/channel @ 8 ohms.
I would love to hear a better explanation of the crowns top end as I have a XLS 2000 right now and I don't hear that. You can p.m. me so we don't pollute this thread
 
Actually I'd be interested in hearing about this also. I haven't looked into any class D amps at all, but I'm just trying to gob as much information as I can.
First of all Class D or "switching" amplifiers are not new. The first one I heard was the Infinity SWAMP at a TAS reviewer friend's home back in the 70s. Like first generation SS amps, it was not yet ready for prime time. Over the decades, there have been many different designs which were most often regarded as clean, but considered by many as unnaturally sterile sounding. Bleached highs. Lean lower midrange. But they remained practical as they are efficient, compact and produce very little heat. Which is why switchers have all but taken over the pro world given its set of virtues.

Fast forward to 2016 when I decided to replace a NAD 326BEE amp used in the garage system. It was nice sounding, but ran pretty darn hot. Which didn't work well in my environment since it was shut up in a closet. I decided to try out a Crown XLS-1500 purchased used for about $300. Immediately, I noticed a wonderfully rich midrange which I found superior to that of the NAD. I hate the overused term, but it is tube like in that region with its focus and resolution. The top end, however, was a different story. Clean, yes but lacking in upper harmonic extension. Listen to content that is rich with upper woodwinds and percussion like cymbals, chimes and bells. The winds should sound reedy and full of air. Percussion should begin with a strike followed by its decay. With the Crown, the air and decay is missing in action. Fortunately, however, it is a sin of omission unlike the persistent and inescapable hardness of its early predecessors. You might never notice until you hear better. Or live.

I replaced it with an Ncore amplifier produced by Dutch engineer Bruno Putzeys whose many designs found in a range of brands are arguably the best of the switchers. While the NC502mp has its own limitations, its top end response doesn't share the same challenge as the Crown. Their challenge has always been similar to that of op amps - they are inherently non-linear and require boatloads of corrective feedback to behave well in good company. Square wave response always shows a lot of *fuzz* caused by remnants of the high frequency carrier signal that remains after filtering. Sterephile's John Atkinson usually has to apply an external filter in order to get his test gear to work.
 
I'm drawn to the PS-200 visually because I think it would look sharp next to my Sansui both black with silver knobs. That's a stupid reason to buy gear but it was the first thing I thought when I saw what they looked like.
That is a very strong driving force for many here at AK. Damn the performance, I want it to match!! There are a lot of them.
 
I think pro power amps can/may provide huge bang for the buck used. Ive had Crown XLS class D amps and others that have been real good. For efficient speakers inexpensive TRIPATH amps can be a real score and a revelation.
 
...Sterephile's John Atkinson usually has to apply an external filter in order to get his test gear to work...

He's not the only one. I have to filter and banish any and all switchers from the immediate vicinity of my test gear, particularly the computer based FFTs. WiFi is no better, you should see the IMD products it causes all the way down the spectrum when in close proximity to sampling 'scopes.

When interfacing a DSO to my PC, I have to kill the WiFi on the PC or the low level wideband traces are poisoned.

It's the one thing that kills them for me- they are radio transmitters in a can as far as I am concerned.
 
There are plenty of high powered, high performing integrated amplifiers that are considerably better than some pre/power separates.

Going separate is not a surefire way to improve anything, except your HiFi dealer's bank account. Some of the TOTL integrateds have considerably more care put into their manufacture than many separates, separates that contain more fresh air than components and focus more on brute power than finesse.

The top integrated amplifiers from the classic years were often cost no object designs sold into the Japanese home market where separates were never regarded in general as superior. Consequently, statement integrateds fly under the radar on the 2nd hand market.
 
Separates are more flexible than an integrated, however. And that even applies with companies who make both well. Some people benefit from that flexibility.
 
I'm not using the less-expensive (okay, cheap) Crown amps designed for DJs or SR subs. I've said this before but when I went to my local hi-fi store 45-years ago looking to replace my not-very-dependable Fisher SA1000 amp, they suggested the Crown D-series and gave me three different models to take home to try. And they were a McIntosh dealer, among others. I chose the middle D150 and still have it today. I remember taking it along with my C20 to the Mac Clinics and watching the looks on the faces of the Mac engineers when their proof-of-performance charts showed the consistent performance of the Crowns surpassing their power ratings while the distortion curve hugged the X-axis. Back then Crowns were sold as hi-fi gear by hi-fi stores.

The D-series and PS-series have no fans, are quite heavy, aren't designed to fill a disco, but were a staple of many fine studios over the past 50-years. For what they sell for now, you just can't go wrong even if you try one and don't like it. Just running an inventory from my head, I must have nine D-series amps from D45, D75A, D150, D150A-II, to DC300A-II, and maybe eight PS-200s and PS-400s, in addition to one Studio Reference-II. For those who think they're just cheap high-powered disco amps like some of their current line, the D75A was still available new just a few years ago and the list price was just shy of $1,200. Yes, Crown certainly has sound-reinforcement covered today but the D and PS-series were really quite different animals.

Well I made an offer and got a good price on a clean PS-200. I figure for the price it was worth checking it out and if I don't like it I can pass without any loss. I looked around AK and found you have been touting the PS's for years and figured what the hell.
 
Well I made an offer and got a good price on a clean PS-200. I figure for the price it was worth checking it out and if I don't like it I can pass without any loss. I looked around AK and found you have been touting the PS's for years and figured what the hell.
I hope it works well for you. I like them so much I buy any I see in good physical condition that come up for a good price—even though I have no need for another. I also have some Crown amps out on loan to friends and neighbors who have failed Carvers, Phase Linears, and Haflers.
 
Pro: It looks cool. My sleek black tube pre-amp and my 70-lb. power amp trump your flea-weight British integrated every time.
Con: It costs a fair bit more money than your flea-weight British integrated. My Visa weeps.
 
I hope it works well for you. I like them so much I buy any I see in good physical condition that come up for a good price—even though I have no need for another. I also have some Crown amps out on loan to friends and neighbors who have failed Carvers, Phase Linears, and Haflers.

The crown showed up today and I've only had a few minutes to spend with it.

First impressions are very favorable with digital content, but my turntable seems to have a ground loop or grounding problem with it which makes using it at the moment intolerable. I'll have to mess with it tomorrow to see if I can find out why.
 
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