Tell me about the Shure M3D Stereo cart..

[johnjhazel]

I use the M 44-7 every day on my main turntable and tonearm. The M3D ethos but less brutal on record wear, and superior tracking. Much more refined, with similar good qualities. And mucho output.

Shure may have stop producing cartridges, but the cartridges and styli for the M3D and forward(timewise) will be available forever. NOS and used cartridges from eBay and new styli from any styli retailer. Shure is, was, and always will be, THAT popular.

 

[KentTeffeteller]

Yes, and Shure styli have often been of better quality, from better suppliers, than many other magnetic cartridges. Shure M 44 family have been used in jukeboxes for many years, AM and FM broadcasting, audiophiles, music lovers, and so many applications. and the Japanese suppliers have made good styli for those for many years.

 

[johnjhazel]

Yes, and Shure styli have often been of better quality, from better suppliers, than many other magnetic cartridges. Shure M 44 family have been used in jukeboxes for many years, AM and FM broadcasting, audiophiles, music lovers, and so many applications. and the Japanese suppliers have made good styli for those for many years.

Shure is JICO's bread and butter. Whether JICO/JICO, Tonar/JICO, or Thakker/JICO. There are more. I don't think HUCO produces VividLine. LOL.

 

[johnjhazel]

I just noticed that there were a few versions of the M3D:
(Page 65, September 1961) It takes some backwards scrolling to get to it. Lots of reading material in the link.

https://books.google.com/books?id=R31UAAAAMAAJ&pg=RA6-PA56&lpg=RA6-PA56&dq=ge+vr+1000&source=bl&ots=lUPPVPjfFq&sig=z7lkyWJImoC_fN16K9BkCP-yhZI&hl=en&sa=X#v=onepage&q=ge vr 1000&f=false

 

[pdm4606]

That's like something I never saw before the first time again. I subscribed to Hi-Fi stereo review for many years during that time. Many adds came back to me. Fisher, Scott, Sony Tape, EV, and so on. But I missed any adds from JBL.
I remember many years they weren't around. Maybe going through a reorganization or too busy. Why advertise when you own the market?

 

[johnjhazel]

That's like something I never saw before the first time again. I subscribed to Hi-Fi stereo review for many years during that time. Many adds came back to me. Fisher, Scott, Sony Tape, EV, and so on. But I missed any adds from JBL.
I remember many years they weren't around. Maybe going through a reorganization or too busy. Why advertise when you own the market?

I love the old audio magazines and catalogs. And they are great if you have a piece of vintage equipment and want to see a test/review to see performance when new. In that link is a review of the GE VR 1000-7 and 1000-5. That review sent me on a mission to prove that the GE VR 1000 need not track at 5+ grams. And is usable as a great Daily Driver.

 

[malden]

I finally got some free time today, and I figured I would a/b the two carts. So as to make a fair comparison, I installed my NOS Shure N3D that I've had socked away into the M3D. The mono LPs I listened to were Pithecanthropus Erectus by Charles Mingus on black label Atlantic, Freddy King's Hide Away & Dance Away on King, Sam Cooke's Night Beat on RCA, Disraeli Gears by Cream on Atco, and a UK Tamla pressing of Marvin Gaye's MPG record.

I heard no difference between the Shure M3D and the GE VRII. Both sound equally fantastic.

If there were any subtle differences in the sonics between the two, I was unable to detect them. I noted equal amounts of background noise/pops & crackles being reproduced by both as well.

My question now is which of the two to stick with. Tracking at just under 5 grams, would the GE VRII with the larger 1.0 mil stylus be gentler on my records than the Shure?

For me, it would come down to which stylus tip I presume to be higher quality.

I like your taste in music...

 

[beatcomber]

Yeah, @ivan100000 is playing some top-shelf discs on his hifi!

 

[ivan100000]

Thanks for the kind words.

I'm finally going to go through the hassle of getting my Type A serviced, as the problem of skipping at the end of the LP side and/or rejecting too early is getting worse & worse. The tech who will be going through it seems to feel (sight-unseen) that he should be able to get it to track at 3g with no problem. For whatever reason, it won't track/skips if I set the VTF much lower than 4.5g and it has been that way since I've owned it. Tracking at 3g will be fine for the Shure M3D, but for the GE VRII, not so much...

 

[sberger]

Thanks for the kind words.

I'm finally going to go through the hassle of getting my Type A serviced, as the problem of skipping at the end of the LP side and/or rejecting too early is getting worse & worse. The tech who will be going through it seems to feel (sight-unseen) that he should be able to get it to track at 3g with no problem. For whatever reason, it won't track/skips if I set the VTF much lower than 4.5g and it has been that way since I've owned it. Tracking at 3g will be fine for the Shure M3D, but for the GE VRII, not so much...

The M3D recommended tracking force with a N3D stylus is 3-6g. On a Type A arm, assuming the stylus is in good shape, tracking at 4.5g is the sweet spot ant will not damage records at all. I really wouldn’t worry about that, as that tracking force was normal for an arm like the Type A’s.

 

[ivan100000]

That's my dilemma: the tech will have the Shure M3D tracking at 3g which will be kinder to my records...but 3g = bye bye GE VRII.

 

[monkboughtlunch]

Great discussion. A few questions:

1.) Other than different tracking forces, are there any sonic or tracing ability differences (IGD, sibilance handling) between the N3D and N21D styli when installed in an M3D cart? Does one styli sound better than the other in an M3D?

2.) Do Jico N3D and N21D sound the same as the Shure originals or do they sound different? If they sound or perform different, how so?

3.) Are there sonic differences between the first generation M3D (circa 1958-1962) vs the later, cheaper M3Ds of the late 60s to 70s?

 

[Tube Sound]

Does anyone have an idea of what version/year this is? Thanks for any thoughts.

 

[tubeactive]

Definitely an early one, possibly a "Professional" model. The top shielding and surrounding mounting ears date it well. Are there any painted letters stamped on the case ? IIRC, the first letter being an A represents 1958, B would be 1959, C is 1960 and so on. That top shield plate was only used the first few years....if not the first two years....The stylus looks like an aftermarket N3D...

 

[Tube Sound]

Thanks tubeactive, you nailed it. I took the cart to a lamp, with my glasses on and bingo, there is a date stamp. In blue, hard to see numbering, 1258. Made December 1958. Apparently they went to the letter system you describe in '60 or '61. Thanks for your help. Also of interest in reading, the top shield does not say Pat Pending or USA Patent, which some did. Good to know on the stylus. Wonder how this would perform on my ESL S1000 arm? Have an M55E at the moment.

 

[SidSmith]

Definitetly an earlier one (before dramatic price decrease with the advent of the Shure V15).

The later one do not have the aluminum top cover and have ''M3D Shure'' write on there belly. Early one only has ''Shure'' write on it.

You will paid a lot for a NOS Stylus (N3D or N21D). I have good result with this aftermarket stylus :https://www.lpgear.com/product/SHN021D.html.

ESL S1000 is an arm from that period and can handle low compliance cartridge like the M3D. Do not using it on lighter arms, it will not sound it best.

 

[ghamilton]

Check this out.
https://audiokarma.org/forums/index...ure-v15iii-with-sass-vividline-stylus.967706/

 

[Wolfie62]

^^^Meaning, what? That some prefer an AT cart?

 

[Pio1980]

Early examples have machined pins, later stamped.

 

[SidSmith]

The last time I put it in place of my Denon DL-103 and UTC A-11 (200 Ohms input), the cartridge sound roll off on top, was a bit heavy in the lower midrange and was just a bit less detailed.
What I missed the most was the high frequency extension of the Denon on certain record.

Is the Shure M3D comparable to Denon DL-103? Absolutely. Same league, different caracter.

It is a commendable result for a 1958 cartridge design that can be bought far cheaper than the Denon and it's matching transformers. The easy way of changing stylus is a plus vs retipping the Denon after its diamond are worn out (approx. 600 hours).