Testing "new" tube amp

oldman55

Well-Known Member
I've been searching for a step by step guide on testing an amp to see if it is worth rebuilding. I guess you would start with the transformers, put in tubes and test voltages?
A link would be great if there is one out there.
oldman
BTW, a little hesitant as this unit had a cut cord. But it looks really clean.
 
Time to review some theory. This sticky thread has good info: http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/how-does-a-tube-amp-work.443915/ My reason for saying that is because assessing whether an amp is worth rebuilding requires some general understanding of how tube amps work. But, yes, generally, I would check the output transformer(s) first as they are the most expensive components to replace. Then the power supply, incl. power transformer.

To decide about the potential quality of a specific make and model, I would research that amp, starting with, but not limited to, AK.
 
Some techs will cut the cord if they believe the unit presents a shock or fire hazard. Others do it to mark cannibal fodder. I would certainly start by thoroughly testing the power and output transformers with low-voltage AC applied -- not just DC resistance checks. If they're proven good, then you face a dilemma: Laboriously replace the caps before you know about other possibly major problems or risk damage by proceeding to functional testing with old caps in place. I'm not sure there's any advice that fits all such cases. Most of us have acquired judgement in this area the hard way. For instance, sometimes you may know that certain types of caps or other components are highly likely to have failed and you can selectively replace them before proceeding. Some folks keep degraded tubes around so they don't have to risk good ones in chassis of unknown provenance. The list goes on forever, but we have a huge advantage over previous generations in this endeavor: forums like this one. You can usually get answers to specific questions and build up a store of knowledge much faster by tapping the experience of folks who love to share.
 
Exactly why I was looking for "testing an amp for dummies", 2.01 version at least.
Dont know when to risk the tubes. Have variac and adj DC source for testing. Just not enough knowledge in the mi\x.
But I'll put it on the shelf for a rainy day, Its already popped me so not a good omen. Some caps must be good.

The dog (and UPS man) drug up another "as-is". But clean as could be in a walnut box so I'm feeling good about it. Gotta go with the karma.
fisher.jpg
After months of flipping the ST70 around, its a relief to see minimal iron and find out if they can pump enough air to please. Looks kind of like a pair of dice sitting on the chassis.
 
Hopefully this one will prove to be a better experience than the other unit. Anyway, you should get a SSR solid state rectifier for using with the variac so you do some voltage checking and also helps with capacitor reforming, although this unit will probably require all the electrolytic caps to be replaced.
First thing i do with a unknown unit is to check the power cord and then the fuse. Since the power cord was cut you need to replace it. ( some sellers cut the cord to "absolve" them from litigation because a person plugged in the unit without having it repaired) . Sometimes the seller cuts it to indicate a serious problem but they would usually say what that is. I use a cord with alligator clips at one end so i easily clamp it onto AC cord inputs.
Second thing is to do a visual check of the transformers and components looking for obvious faults, burnt out resistors, goop leaking out of transformers, blown out capacitors, white stuff leaking out from electrolytic caps, obvious signs of a short like a burn mark on the chassis, loose or broken wires .
Next pull all the tubes and have them tested. With no tubes in the amp and using your ssr instead of the tube rectifier and the variac and your meter. Put the variac on 10v or 10% and turn on the amp. Since there are no tubes and little load the B+ voltage will be quite high at pin 8 of the rectifier tube socket, about 40 to 50vdc. If you have very low or say half the voltage you need to check for problems. If you don't have any issues you can add on 5 more volts to the variac after about 5 to 10 minutes of letting the lytics reform. I would do this until you reach 60vac.
During the slow incremental AC increases use your meter to check the B+ as it goes through out your circuits. As the dcv goes thru each resistor/cap voltage tap you need to check that it is. If at this point everything seems to be ok, no bad burning smells, no resistors starting to smoke, no electrolytic caps getting warm ( if the can cap is getting warm at this point then it is almost ready to fail), You can go on to the next step. After turning off the amp!
My next step is to install all the tested tubes in their proper sockets including the rectifier tube, and properly hooking up some cheap, but good sounding speakers you don't mind ruining. When all is hooked up properly turn on the amp or variac and monitor the b+. It will probably take several minute to come up as the rectifier slowly starts to conduct. The b+ will now be lower since you have tubes to load down the transformer. If you don't have any B+ or very low volts you need to check why. You should be getting around 150 to about 200 vdc. Hopefully, you have no problems and can proceed with incremental voltage increases.
At about 75 vac i plug in my walkman cd player as a signal source into the AUX. rca sockets. It should make a nice reassuring hum when the plugs go in. Turn on the player and if your stars are in alignment and the voodoo priestess's incantations were effective, and with crossed fingers and crossed toes you will have some music coming out of your speakers.
 
Last edited:
Thanks Primo; thats pretty much exactly the step by step I was looking for. As the cord is replaced, I have no SSR and all visually checks, would it be risky to bring it up to where the rectifier kicks in (60v?) and test from there? All caps are original on this and a light layer of dust. And prior owner was a cat person :(
In the meantime, will pretty much follow this procedure on my other project:
http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/tubes-can-talk-fisher-x-100.763430/
 
Ready to get back on this. When I install a SSR, will I need to add a switch or some sort of soft start? Or is that only needed if I run it on a permanent basis?
 
Permanently. To slow down the startup of the amp, especially with SSR.

To be installed in serie with the primary of the PT.

There are many threads on this topic.
 
You can start at 60vac if you want but if it is the very first power up of an unknown amp i like to start at 10vac just to rule out any nasty surprises. What is the rectifier you are using? If you have a cheap one like a 5r4 you can plug it in and it will just start to conduct at 30vac but it will take maybe 10 minutes before you see an appreciable amount of volts. You can use that to about 60vac then plug in your 5ar4 which is the stock rectifier for that unit. That is just a "work around" the ssr and to not abuse your 5ar4 but not something that replaces it. Also do you know what your wall voltage is? If it goes past 120 then the CL will knock a couple of volts off your incoming wall voltage and help the unit run closer to specs. If your wall voltage is 118 then the cl is not really necessary as the 5ar4 is much better at a slow voltage ramp up.
 
Ready to get back on this. When I install a SSR, will I need to add a switch or some sort of soft start? Or is that only needed if I run it on a permanent basis?
The SSR i refer to is an octal based which subs for the tube. i dunno why you would need a switch unless your original is not working. The on/off switch is on the volume or a tone control? Those frequently go bad. The CL is not necessary for testing since you can control the voltage with the variac. If you are considering converting your unit to solid state rectified, then using the CL is highly recommended.
 
Another good test is to check across your filter capacitor terminals for a short circuit. Power must be off and caps discharged before you do this, but you should see a momentary deflection of your meter to low resistance then a slow climb to infinity. I steady reading is grounds for dismissal unless there is a bleeder resistor across it, but a dead short is no good.
 
My wall outlet is 125, I ordered both a CL80 and a CL90 but they sure dont look heavy duty enough to run 125W through.
The SSR was going to be for testing but will try bringing up to 60v on the 5ar4. I do have .35k ohms on 400uf/50v tab of the can. Other tabs are open circuit. Will check pin 8 of rectifier.
 
Wow 125! You should strive to get it below 120. The easiest way is to run your amp thru the variac and set it to output 117. Then you don't need to worry about the high voltage. Problem is there is some current restriction which may or may not be audible to you. Other alternative is a line conditioner but you still have a similar issue with current. I am not sure how much raw voltage drop you will get with using 2 CL but if they can get your input AC voltage to less than 120 that would be the ticket.
 
yeah. constant 125v. Guess I should run all the old gear thru the variac, as that's I have right now.
 
I wouldn't worry about an extra 5 volts at the line. By the time it gets stepped up, rectified, and filtered it might add 18 volts to your plates. Consider it extra headroom.
 
I think this one is going back on the shelf for now. Have an "as-is" Sherwood EL84 checking in tomorrow.
 
Back
Top Bottom